If the November bill gets passed, what does that mean for us growers?

[Dan Kone]

i'm all for legalization but this bill is crap.

Of course it's crap. Any bill that has any chance in hell of passing is going to be crap. No one is going to put real money in support of a law unless it's going to make them rich. Who's going to spend millions of dollars to legalize cannabis with out their own personal financial motivations purely because it's the right thing to do?

If you're really for legalization you have to be realistic about it.

 

[researchkitty]

In theory, you're right. In reality people who don't care about legalization one way or the other need to be given an incentive to vote for legalization. It shouldn't be a criminal act to being with and it shouldn't be taxed, but if you want to end prohibition the reality is the only way to get enough public support is to tax it. Best of two evils.

Depends what you mean by "for". If you mean what's is the purpose, then the answer is an incentive to get people to vote in favor of prohibition. If you mean where does the money go, then I believe the answer is into the state general fund.



Yeah, I got it. Everything you said is 100% correct in a fantasy world where whatever is good and right is the law of the land. In the real world it doesn't work that way. If I've got to pay an unfair tax in order to insure I never go to jail unjustly, I'll take it. If you're holding out for a third option where prohibition ends without a tax then you're waiting for something that will never happen.

So "in theory" or "in fantasy", I'm right. In fact, I'm far from fucking wrong -- I'm 100% solidly and UNDISPUTED RIGHT. There IS no other side to this argument.

There's NO reason to TAX marijuana other than to BRIBE the government to make it legal for us when it should not be illegal to begin with. Do you PAY your school BULLY to let you eat your lunch? FUCK NO! You beat his ass.

Your allowing this to happen, or being a pussy about it, is why the government wants to tax other things like SODA POP and CANDY or COFFEE.

How about we tax your keyboards letter "D"? Why not? We'll just make the D key illegal unless people allow a tax on it to use the letter D again. Wait --- no --- that's just as DDDDDUMB as you wanting a TAX on a PLANT that causes no harm.

Only in America would 350 million people allow their country to be run by 500 people and let them tax you 30-40% of your income. Good job!

 

[fdd2blk]

people will NOT vote YES simply because it's taxed.


i will pay you to change your opinion on marijuana.


yeah, that works.

 

[Dan Kone]

So "in theory" or "in fantasy", I'm right. In fact, I'm far from fucking wrong -- I'm 100% solidly and UNDISPUTED RIGHT. There IS no other side to this argument.

I agree. You're right. Too bad being right isn't enough.

There's NO reason to TAX marijuana other than to BRIBE the government to make it legal for us when it should not be illegal to begin with.

Well it's also to bribe the taxpayers. But yeah, correct again. That's how the world works. Money makes shit happen.

Do you PAY your school BULLY to let you eat your lunch? FUCK NO! You beat his ass.

That sounds good an all. But the bully you speak of is the California state government which can bring +90,000 armed friends. Hey, if you can kick all their asses then I'll support you for emperor of California.

Your allowing this to happen, or being a pussy about it, is why the government wants to tax other things like SODA POP and CANDY or COFFEE.

Fine. What's the alternative? Show me a REALISTIC option where no one gets in legal trouble for cannabis and it's not taxed and I'll support that. I just don't see that.

Only in America would 350 million people allow their country to be run by 500 people and let them tax you 30-40% of your income. Good job!

Actually, that's how it's been everywhere for the past ~1500 years. Some places even longer.

 

[Dan Kone]

people will NOT vote YES simply because it's taxed.

Actually if you ask people if they support the legalization of cannabis ~40-45% of Californians will say yes. If you ask them if they support taxing and regulating cannabis you get +55% saying yes.

Obviously cannabis users support legalization without taxation. But I'm talking about a demographic who don't care one way or the other about cannabis. They just see it as tax money for a broke state.

There is a large enough group of people out there who will vote yes simply because it's taxed. That demographic is large enough to make the difference.

 

[researchkitty]

Show me a REALISTIC option where no one gets in legal trouble for cannabis and it's not taxed and I'll support that. I just don't see that.

That IS the realistic option. There's no data to support needing a tax, and no data to support marijuana needing laws, so neither should be considered. Free to grow free to sell free to buy as much as you like and let the market dictate the pricing.

Sure, it wont happen like that, but it should if people asked their government to make it happen like that. The problem is too many people are PUSSIES (A girl calling the public this, mind you!) and settle for "tax and legalize" instead. If you want it you gotta PUSH for it and not SETTLE for it.

What am I going to do about it? Nothing! Happily, too. Where I live the laws are where I can grow and sell and I am happy. If others want their rights, they should fight where they are for them and that's that.

 

[Dan Kone]

That IS the realistic option. There's no data to support needing a tax, and no data to support marijuana needing laws, so neither should be considered. Free to grow free to sell free to buy as much as you like and let the market dictate the pricing.

Then why isn't there a legalization law that doesn't involve taxing it?

Sure, it wont happen like that, but it should if people asked their government to make it happen like that.

I'm not concerned with what should happen in theory. I care about what really can happen right now.

The problem is too many people are PUSSIES (A girl calling the public this, mind you!) and settle for "tax and legalize" instead. If you want it you gotta PUSH for it and not SETTLE for it.

IMO being a pussy isn't the problem, being stupid is. This is the first legitimate chance to get legalization and people are going to crap all over it because it's not a perfect law. This is an important FIRST STEP towards national legalization. Look at the big picture. There is no guarantee we will ever have this chance again. Only a fool would ignore it because it's not a perfect law. If there was another ballot measure that we could vote on that had legalization without taxation I'd vote for that instead. But you're just letting the perfect become the enemy of the good.

What am I going to do about it? Nothing! Happily, too. Where I live the laws are where I can grow and sell and I am happy. If others want their rights, they should fight where they are for them and that's that.

You don't care that other people get sent to jail for cannabis use as long as it doesn't effect you? Well some of us actually care what happens in the world beyond ourselves. You might be able to grow and sell medical cannabis semi-legally in your area, but this has nothing to do with medical cannabis. This law does not effect medical users. This is only applies to non-medical uses. That's not legal anywhere in California.

 

[Dan Kone]

Ok. Lets pretend there actually is a ballot measure that gets passed that legalizes cannabis without taxing it. What's to stop politicians from just passing a law through congress to tax it anyways? Nothing. And that is exactly what would happen. Why? Because they can get away with it. So even if you hold out for this mythical ballot measure which legalizes cannabis without taxing it, the end result would be exactly the same, maybe worse even. It'd still end up getting taxed, except this time it would be politicians deciding how big the tax would be. How is that better?

 

[whiteflour]

Legalized or not it's not getting any cheaper. It will be taxed, and it won't be some mass available prodcut by the pack. Cigarette rolling machines are multi-million dollar pieces of equipment with many of the patents owned by the tobacco companies themselves. It's unfortunate due to all taxing the dems wanted on tobacco those machines are slowly heading back to Europe or down to Mexico/Puerto Rico.

Yet another industry that's about to gone from this country.

 

[researchkitty]

As long as the bills that get proposed contain a tax clause, the votes will be on that bill. You have to speak to your regulators and whomever influences your area to make a free legal and no tax bill.

Whats to stop a politician from taxing it after its just free and legal? YOU. Thats what you vote for!

 

[jellwood007]

Hello! who gives a fuck if they tax it. it will be legal and that is bad ass. just keep what you are doing. instead of going over to amsterdam, ill go to cali

 

[fdd2blk]

where the fuck do people come up with "we will never have another chance"? that is 100% bullshit. we have elections every 6 months. it could go onto any ballot at any time. it does not HAVE TO BE this time.


i've voting NO because i don't want to be grouped with people who really have no clue. it's embarrassing.

 

[fdd2blk]

Ok. Lets pretend there actually is a ballot measure that gets passed that legalizes cannabis without taxing it. What's to stop politicians from just passing a law through congress to tax it anyways? Nothing. And that is exactly what would happen. Why? Because they can get away with it. So even if you hold out for this mythical ballot measure which legalizes cannabis without taxing it, the end result would be exactly the same, maybe worse even. It'd still end up getting taxed, except this time it would be politicians deciding how big the tax would be. How is that better?

you are making shit up.

 

[jellwood007]

you have to start somewhere. this is the closest we have come to it being legal. you have to take one for the team, now is the time. when was the last time it was legal? dont stop this opportunity for legalisation, what we have been fighting for, forever. let it be legal then change and make diff. laws on it. the first step and only is cali making it legal. after that, all states will eventually follow and laws will be less strict on growing. this is our chance.

 

[fdd2blk]

you have to start somewhere. this is the closest we have come to it being legal. you have to take one for the team, now is the time. when was the last time it was legal? dont stop this opportunity for legalisation, what we have been fighting for, forever. let it be legal then change and make diff. laws on it. the first step and only is cali making it legal. after that, all states will eventually follow and laws will be less strict on growing. this is our chance.

actually cali passed medical years ago. then prop 420, which has since been repealed. now this is out there. if this gets shot down we will only TRY HARDER next time. it will not put "an end" to any chance in the future. that is just silly. there WILL be a next time, and a next time and a next time, .......

 

[Dan Kone]

You have to speak to your regulators and whomever influences your area to make a free legal and no tax bill.

My area isn't the problem. Orange county, San Diego, and san joaquin valley are the problem. I assure you, politicians there could care less what you or I think.

Whats to stop a politician from taxing it after its just free and legal? YOU. Thats what you vote for!

Yes, but I'm not the dictator of California nor do I have a vote in who Orange county elects as a state representative. The majority of Californians would not oppose taxing cannabis to the point where politicians are going to lose elections. Some asshole bible thumper congressmen from one of the conservative parts of California would impose a sin tax, and it'd pass because that would give the politicians will support anything which gives them more money to waist.

At least this way we know what the tax will be up front. If instead we pass a ballot measure that doesn't involve taxing it we are basically saying we should let the politicians in Sacramento what the tax rate is going to be. Instead of $50 an ounce, it could be $150 an ounce if we let them decide.

The idea that we could have legalization without taxes being imposed is simply unrealistic. Money is a more powerful motivation than you give it credit for.

 

[whiteflour]

Who's to say other states will follow though? The way I see it this is really just going to create a massive gray area, and if you think the feds are just going to sit around ringside, that's rediculous. I expect they'll hop right back into the action, start taking down medical growers again, simply so they can prove a point to the little guys.

Other states aren't going to want that.

 

[Dan Kone]

you are making shit up.

Really? You don't think some politician would pass a bill that would tax cannabis if it were made legal? Do you think they'd all of a sudden be more concerned with doing the right thing than collecting more money?

 

[jellwood007]

u tha man dan kone!

 

[fdd2blk]

Really? You don't think some politician would pass a bill that would tax cannabis if it were made legal? Do you think they'd all of a sudden be more concerned with doing the right thing than collecting more money?

i can't see into the future so i don't know what will happen.

how much money do they collect arresting and fining people for it right now? you do realize that is A LOT of money, that will suddenly be gone? do you think 50 an ounce will make up for the millions they are already making? millions they are making today, right now, as i type this. not some "future prediction".