HELP!!White gel on roots?
- Thread starter BUDDZY
- Start date
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
When a clear snot forms on roots in a DWC, and the normal course of treatment for root disease doesn't work, you probably have something called brown slime algae, which actually isn't algae at all, but a cyanobacteria. It loves oxygen and doesn't need light to grow. It doesn't care if your res is chilled or not. Safe levels of H202 slows it a bit but doesn't cure it. It can show up for DWC growers for no apparent reason even after years of successful grows, tho one very common way to get it is to have it introduced by a clone from an infected garden. Having some sort of organic material in the res, especially a sugar based additive, also seems to be a common factor for those infected. Enzyme products like cannazyme feed this slime and cause it to explode. Once it shows up it's often a nightmare to get rid of. It WILL eventually spread to other DWC tubs, although it almost never gains a foothold on older well developed healthy plants/roots.
People who get this try the normal stuff... More bubbles in the water, cool res temps, and h202 treatments. Most of the time this does nothing at all. Most root disease will cause the ph to drop but the slime causes it to rise, which is one way you can figure out if you have it. It starts out subtle like a clear coating of mucus on the roots with no odor. Plants often still appear healthy for a while. In a very short time it will cover the entire root base and become thicker and sometimes turns yellow. Eventually it strangles the roots which causes pythium to set in, and at that point turns brown and finally has an odor.
The treatment is to sterilize the roots with a product like physan 20. Some people just let the plants sit in a really strong h2o2 bath for a few hours. Once the roots are cleaned up and sterile, you have two choices. You can try to run a continuous sterilizing product in the res, OR you can immediately try to inoculate the roots with beneficial microbes, which if done right will displace the slime and keep it at bay. Personally if it were me, and the clone wasnt anything special, I would toss it out, toss out the tub and net pot and anything else that can be easily replaced, and sterilize any testers or equipment that came into contact with the water.
You will find most of the information on this stuff from orchid growing forums and aquarium communities. Trying to sterilize the res is often a losing battle. In fact, since no hydro products kill this stuff, when you sterilize the water you are removing all competing microbes except this one. There are people who use RO filters and then run their water through a UV sterilizer and still end up with the slime. The answer always seems to be beneficial microbes.
People who get this try the normal stuff... More bubbles in the water, cool res temps, and h202 treatments. Most of the time this does nothing at all. Most root disease will cause the ph to drop but the slime causes it to rise, which is one way you can figure out if you have it. It starts out subtle like a clear coating of mucus on the roots with no odor. Plants often still appear healthy for a while. In a very short time it will cover the entire root base and become thicker and sometimes turns yellow. Eventually it strangles the roots which causes pythium to set in, and at that point turns brown and finally has an odor.
The treatment is to sterilize the roots with a product like physan 20. Some people just let the plants sit in a really strong h2o2 bath for a few hours. Once the roots are cleaned up and sterile, you have two choices. You can try to run a continuous sterilizing product in the res, OR you can immediately try to inoculate the roots with beneficial microbes, which if done right will displace the slime and keep it at bay. Personally if it were me, and the clone wasnt anything special, I would toss it out, toss out the tub and net pot and anything else that can be easily replaced, and sterilize any testers or equipment that came into contact with the water.
You will find most of the information on this stuff from orchid growing forums and aquarium communities. Trying to sterilize the res is often a losing battle. In fact, since no hydro products kill this stuff, when you sterilize the water you are removing all competing microbes except this one. There are people who use RO filters and then run their water through a UV sterilizer and still end up with the slime. The answer always seems to be beneficial microbes.
thatdjsnow
Well-Known Member
informative. 
Gixxerboy
Well-Known Member
Extremely good information.
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
Just be sure your nutes and additives are compatible with h202.
When fighting the slime, if you are going the sterile route you can add nutes back right away. If you are going the beneficial route, hold off on nutes for a couples days so as not to feed the slime and give the bennies a chance to get established. You can foliage feed during this time.
BUDDYZ, just wondering. You said you got your clone from someone else? Does this person by chance use and ez cloner or a bubble cloner?
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
Most hydro sterilizing products actually work really well on everything but this slime.
Products that do nothing:
algaecide/algae destroyer from walmart/pet store
Sm-90
Dutch Master Zone (best at slowing it down)
Peroxide
Super oxy (any sort of oxidizing solution)
Roots Excelurator
Enzyme products (causes it to explode, like jet fule for the slime)
Products no one has tried specifically on the slime:
Zerotol - seems to be another oxy treatment (edit: this is a blend of essential plant oils)
Watermax - From Bob's brew - prevents biofilm and scaley buildup
Hydro-fungicide - New product from AU - destroys microbes from the inside out (takes weeks to work)
People who grow orchids and get this slime take care of it easily with a product called Physan 20. Cannabis growers use this product to eliminate existing slime, which it does very well, but no one has had the balls to run physan continously in the res for fear of losing their plants (it's stressful) and for fear of contaminating their bud with poison. The result is re-contamination.
What people do who successfully rid themselves of the slime:
Make a tea out of GH's ancient forrest amendment. Brewing a tea from this stuff gives you water with a greatly diverse and freshly active aerobic microbe community. Add a little aquashield and greatwhite powder to the tea mix for a really powerful brew. Feed the microbes a little molasses in the tea, but do not feed them once in the res. Add 2 or 3 cups to your initial res. Keep the tea in a fridge, it keeps for about 10 days, and replace the microbes by adding a cup to your res every few days. Do not add organic nutes, do not add bud sweeteners, the slime will come back. Do not add anything that kills off your bennies, such as spraying for mites and having the pesticide drip into the res, the slime will come back. Do not get lazy about keeping up your micro-army, the slime will come back. Some people add a few lava rocks to the res to give the bennies a place to live, so when changing the res the rocks can be used to inoculate the new water. Of course there is a specific way to make the tea, look up ACT or EWC tea for the method, but remember we only want the tea for the microbes, not for nutrients. So do not add kelp or other food that some recipes call for.
Some aquarium owners have found that if they leave their tanks sit for a few months, the slime seems to run it course and go away. Of course in hydro cultivation your plants would be dead long before that happens. However, some growers who have been plagued with this slime report that it does go away, seemingly on it's own, after a few months, while others are plagued for years, and still others have it come and go as it pleases.
Of course some people just say screw it and switch to drip to waste coco.
Hope this helps. I am no expert but I have been dealing with this stuff for about 8 months now and I have read every post and scrap of info I can find on it. Just wanting to pass it along. Props to all the growers who have experimented and researched this problem and provided us with this info.
Products that do nothing:
algaecide/algae destroyer from walmart/pet store
Sm-90
Dutch Master Zone (best at slowing it down)
Peroxide
Super oxy (any sort of oxidizing solution)
Roots Excelurator
Enzyme products (causes it to explode, like jet fule for the slime)
Products no one has tried specifically on the slime:
Zerotol - seems to be another oxy treatment (edit: this is a blend of essential plant oils)
Watermax - From Bob's brew - prevents biofilm and scaley buildup
Hydro-fungicide - New product from AU - destroys microbes from the inside out (takes weeks to work)
People who grow orchids and get this slime take care of it easily with a product called Physan 20. Cannabis growers use this product to eliminate existing slime, which it does very well, but no one has had the balls to run physan continously in the res for fear of losing their plants (it's stressful) and for fear of contaminating their bud with poison. The result is re-contamination.
What people do who successfully rid themselves of the slime:
Make a tea out of GH's ancient forrest amendment. Brewing a tea from this stuff gives you water with a greatly diverse and freshly active aerobic microbe community. Add a little aquashield and greatwhite powder to the tea mix for a really powerful brew. Feed the microbes a little molasses in the tea, but do not feed them once in the res. Add 2 or 3 cups to your initial res. Keep the tea in a fridge, it keeps for about 10 days, and replace the microbes by adding a cup to your res every few days. Do not add organic nutes, do not add bud sweeteners, the slime will come back. Do not add anything that kills off your bennies, such as spraying for mites and having the pesticide drip into the res, the slime will come back. Do not get lazy about keeping up your micro-army, the slime will come back. Some people add a few lava rocks to the res to give the bennies a place to live, so when changing the res the rocks can be used to inoculate the new water. Of course there is a specific way to make the tea, look up ACT or EWC tea for the method, but remember we only want the tea for the microbes, not for nutrients. So do not add kelp or other food that some recipes call for.
Some aquarium owners have found that if they leave their tanks sit for a few months, the slime seems to run it course and go away. Of course in hydro cultivation your plants would be dead long before that happens. However, some growers who have been plagued with this slime report that it does go away, seemingly on it's own, after a few months, while others are plagued for years, and still others have it come and go as it pleases.
Of course some people just say screw it and switch to drip to waste coco.
Hope this helps. I am no expert but I have been dealing with this stuff for about 8 months now and I have read every post and scrap of info I can find on it. Just wanting to pass it along. Props to all the growers who have experimented and researched this problem and provided us with this info.
MediMary
Well-Known Member
everything heisenberg said is condensed from this thread..
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=55259&page=2
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=55259&page=2
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
That's why I said "Props to all the growers who have experimented and researched this problem and provided us with this info", those guys are great, however I wasn't comfortable posting a link to another community.
MediMary
Well-Known Member
hey heisenberg.. sorry didnt mean to come off rude, ..haha I just meant that if someone wanted to read more about it they could go to that link. if someone has had problems with brown algae that is a good read. ( i dont think we are supposed to link to other sites,although if helping someone im not sure on the protocol, but honestly icmag sucks balls, I dont think anyone is going to switch communities.
you actually summed up the information really well, (+rep),
you actually summed up the information really well, (+rep),
zem
Well-Known Member
yep i induced this shit nto my cloner when i decided to use dehumidifier water, it was nasty, within a few days ALL my clones were slimy, i tried peroxide but nothing worked, clones just died on me. i smelled the water coming from my dehumidifier it smelled bad, turned out it was full with bad bacteria
Mylar
Well-Known Member
So I cleaned out my entire bucket airstones etc. with h202 and some heavy bleachwater then rinsed repeatedly with DI h20. Pulled off all the dead root matter. Cleaned off the snot and gave them h202 bath. Added h202 to my fresh res let it sit for 2 or 3 hrs added some nutes placed the plants back in the res. 2 days later snot slime is back, thicker. And the palnts haven't really grown in a week. Big fan leaves yellowing and curling with a burned look. I dont know what to do. It is just to hot. H20 temps are at 80-82 room temp like 88. My Ac is set at 60. Might get a bigger AC unit. I know I need knew buckets and all but this sucks! Im am pretty bummed. First time grow looking unbeleavable!! Oh well part of the learning process. ?? Do I kill all my plants (Flower and veg infected) or ride it out and take notes till they croke. Good luck all!!
nailz92002
Active Member
It all depends on you. If you want hit the reset button and try again, then i advise you to cut your losses and completely disinfect your entire grow room and equipment. If you chose this route then mix up a mild bleach solution and wipe down the entire grow room. Do the same to your equipment. Also change the A/C filter out in your place. Then start anew.
If you wanna keep going which could stretch out for months you could gain some valuable information. Although on the downside it could perpetuate the situation. You know what doesn't work, so, that's good information you have gained. Personally I would start over if it was me. You can always grow more cannabis.
Peace and positive energy to you
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
Res temps above 68 will encourage major microbe growth. You can't have a res at 80 without some sort of protective measures or else you are sure to get root problems. The reason the slime came back thicker is because your sterilization killed off all competing organisms. You had the right idea, but the slime is tenacious. You probably did a good job at sterilizing your buckets and stuff, but even just a few spores from a ph tester or even the walls of the grow room are enough to reinfect. If you decide to scrap your veg plants, you can still take clones from them. In fact, my cutting always look better once they get separated from the infected plant, and they root just fine. Of course my bubble cloner hasn't produced one single clone since the slime showed up, but rockwool is unaffected. If you want a yield, you might consider putting clones in coco for now while you experiment with fighting the slime.
I've also found it useful to use APS spray from dutch master. It is intended to nurse cuttings and keep them growing while they form a root structure. Since slime infected plants basically have no root structure, this helps keep them from starving.
It's extremely hard to take infected plants, sterilize them and get them protected with bennies. It's easier to kill everything, sterilize absolutely everything, throw everything away and move to another house.
I ordered some ZHO from botanicare to add to my tea brew. It contains a certain type of fungus they say actually eats the slime. Got 1/4lb for $2.50 so it's worth a shot.
From wikipedia