More global warming/climate change FRAUD!
- Thread starter NoDrama
- Start date
And this is fact or theory?
Userpic666
Member
I know you all think your so smart but no one here can have this argument. Leave it to the people who are know what they are talking about. People who went to SCHOOL to learn these things and let the scientific process determine facts not UNEDUCATED internet people.
Balzac89
Undercover Mod
Widely accepted as fact if you have ever heard of the fossil records.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
kinda funny how the original story was run about a million times, yet the exoneration was run so little.
must be that damn liberal media
Keenly2
Active Member
funny how people will bury their heads in the sand like an ostrichkinda funny how the original story was run about a million times, yet the exoneration was run so little.
must be that damn liberal media
Antidisestablishmentarian
Well-Known Member
The most important greenhouse gas is WATER. Makes up the most of it...
Why is it that CO2 is only discussed?
Why is it that CO2 is only discussed?
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
So they've got accurate measurements of the temperatures from as early as the 1880's (yeah, that was before any sea level city temperatures could have skewed the data) that shows a gradual overall increase of global temperatures at a constant rate, leading meteorologists and climate change experts in the field are all in unanimous agreement that if the Earth increases in temperature by as little as 5 or 6 degrees C the runaway greenhouse effect will be too far along to stop, we have had a perfect example of this mechanism since the planet Venus was discovered and explored by space probes, and your solution is to sit on your hands and wait till you think we have more information about the problem?...Ahem! We still don't fully understand the earth's mechanism for dealing with these problems. We don't know the thresholds that certain concentrations of gases and pollutants become a problem or what those problems might be. We are acting like we have ALL the answers when we are really not much more than a bunch of arrogant, bumbling apes. Remember that science has been and will continue to be wrong about lots of things. Our species has come a long way in a short time but there is so much more for us to learn. I do believe we need to be more responsible and stop living beyond our means. I also believe the earth will take care of itself and we really don't have a lot of say so in the matter.
What else do you need? The information we do have none of you guys take seriously. It's all a bunch of mumbo-jumbo, hocus-pocus, wishy-washy, pseudo science.
What more do you need? How long are you willing to wait before you act? 
The longer we wait, the harder it gets, the more expensive it gets, the more people are displaced and killed.Yeah... the Earth will take "care of itself" alright...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus#Atmosphere_and_climate
The evolution analogy is spot on. Why do you believe the people whose job it is to tell you lies and dismiss the credible scientific data? The guy was cleared of all charges. You're doing exactly what the mainstream media wants you to do, the exact same thing I see you argue with people on here all the time, still talk about it as if he lied and covered up all this stuff, manipulated the data when that simply isn't the case. Go read the ruling and stop spreading misinformation.
Jesus Christ! Don't even get me started!
Water vapor accounts for the largest percentage of the greenhouse effect, between 36% and 66% for clear sky conditions and between 66% and 85% when including clouds.[8] Water vapor concentrations fluctuate regionally, but human activity does not significantly affect water vapor concentrations except at local scales, such as near irrigated fields. According to the Environmental Health Center of the National Safety Council, water vapor constitutes as much as 2% of the atmosphere.[31]
The Clausius-Clapeyron relation establishes that air can hold more water vapor per unit volume when it warms. This and other basic principles indicate that warming associated with increased concentrations of the other greenhouse gases also will increase the concentration of water vapor. Because water vapor is a greenhouse gas this results in further warming, a "positive feedback" that amplifies the original warming. This positive feedback does not result in runaway global warming because it is offset by other processes that induce negative feedbacks, which stabilizes average global temperatures.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas#Role_of_water_vapor
The fossil record of what? You have no proof of anything at all. Its JUST a theory, humans could very well have been placed here by (God, Aliens, Meteorites) 100,000 years ago and you wouldn't be able to prove otherwise. But I can prove that government agencies make data up so as to further an agenda.
As for the rest of you "Climate Destabilization" chicken littles. Read the friggin article, you will get to see the NOAA's Chart that shows you 600F temps in the USA, in cities where people live. Its not a mistake, its happened more than 3 times, also Univ of Michigan is in on it. What is the opposite of the earth getting hotter? What is the opposite of a lie?
Keenly2
Active Member
the people behind the "science" have shown on more than one occasion that they purposely misinterpret and occasionally modify their own "scientific" data in order to achieve predetermined results
to me this is not science, and it shows only that people will lie to accomplish an agenda
im never going to believe anything climate changish ever again after that
to me this is not science, and it shows only that people will lie to accomplish an agenda
im never going to believe anything climate changish ever again after that
doc111
Well-Known Member
Read the whole post Pad! I never say anything about sitting on our hands or anything of the sort! You fucking lefties sure do like to put words in my mouth. This is a direct quote from the post of mine that you quoted: "I do believe we need to be more responsible and stop living beyond our means." What is your interpretation of that? I'd say it's pretty plain english. You guys think that because of some 'theories' that we need to be jumping the gun. When has that ever been a good idea? We need to approach this problem in a calm, rational manner. I'm sorry, but it really pisses me off when intelligent people want to start jumping all over you without reading the entire post.So they've got accurate measurements of the temperatures from as early as the 1880's (yeah, that was before any sea level city temperatures could have skewed the data) that shows a gradual overall increase of global temperatures at a constant rate, leading meteorologists and climate change experts in the field are all in unanimous agreement that if the Earth increases in temperature by as little as 5 or 6 degrees C the runaway greenhouse effect will be too far along to stop, we have had a perfect example of this mechanism since the planet Venus was discovered and explored by space probes, and your solution is to sit on your hands and wait till you think we have more information about the problem?...
What else do you need? The information we do have none of you guys take seriously. It's all a bunch of mumbo-jumbo, hocus-pocus, wishy-washy, pseudo science.
Yeah... the Earth will take "care of itself" alright...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus#Atmosphere_and_climate
The evolution analogy is spot on. Why do you believe the people whose job it is to tell you lies and dismiss the credible scientific data? The guy was cleared of all charges. You're doing exactly what the mainstream media wants you to do, the exact same thing I see you argue with people on here all the time, still talk about it as if he lied and covered up all this stuff, manipulated the data when that simply isn't the case. Go read the ruling and stop spreading misinformation.
Jesus Christ! Don't even get me started!
Water vapor accounts for the largest percentage of the greenhouse effect, between 36% and 66% for clear sky conditions and between 66% and 85% when including clouds.[8] Water vapor concentrations fluctuate regionally, but human activity does not significantly affect water vapor concentrations except at local scales, such as near irrigated fields. According to the Environmental Health Center of the National Safety Council, water vapor constitutes as much as 2% of the atmosphere.[31]
The Clausius-Clapeyron relation establishes that air can hold more water vapor per unit volume when it warms. This and other basic principles indicate that warming associated with increased concentrations of the other greenhouse gases also will increase the concentration of water vapor. Because water vapor is a greenhouse gas this results in further warming, a "positive feedback" that amplifies the original warming. This positive feedback does not result in runaway global warming because it is offset by other processes that induce negative feedbacks, which stabilizes average global temperatures.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas#Role_of_water_vapor
Oh, and BTW, OJ was cleared of all charges. Does that mean he wasn't guilty?
Mindmelted
Well-Known Member
Easy doc111...
Pad is a little dense,So explain like you would a child.
Pad is a little dense,So explain like you would a child.
doc111
Well-Known Member
Ha ha! Thanks! That made me laugh! It just pisses me off that people automatically start assuming shit without reading the whole post! This issue has been politicized to the point that anybody who thinks they know what to think is obviously blinded by their political ideology. Twice now we've had news stories telling us that scientists are lying to us about this shit. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not, but certain people act like they have this enlightened viewpoint. I just don't get it man. I've been on this planet for 40 years and I still haven't got most of this shit figured out.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Keenly, if that were true, that would mean that hundreds of thousands of people would all have to be in on the same thing, working for the US government. Do you know how many people there are studying climate change?
Also, why would scientists in China, Russia, and other not-so-allied US countries come up with the same results to push the US's cap n trade agenda?
The statement I put in bold is a critical mistake on your part, and dangerous for the rest of us, and it's the same thing religious people pull with piltdown man and evolution.
You took your own quote out of context. Did you read the other 3/4 of your post before you posted it? It's basically saying "we need more information, lets not jump to any conclusions just yet, we have to wait till we have more information before we do anything...". You already read my reply to that shit, we don't have time to sit around and wait, especially when you guys won't accept any of the data. So we wait and wait, then wait some more, then discover something new, and if it leans towards climate change at all you guys dismiss it as "bunk science".Read the whole post Pad! I never say anything about sitting on our hands or anything of the sort! You fucking lefties sure do like to put words in my mouth. This is a direct quote from the post of mine that you quoted: "I do believe we need to be more responsible and stop living beyond our means." What is your interpretation of that? I'd say it's pretty plain english. You guys think that because of some 'theories' that we need to be jumping the gun. When has that ever been a good idea? We need to approach this problem in a calm, rational manner. I'm sorry, but it really pisses me off when intelligent people want to start jumping all over you without reading the entire post.
Oh, and BTW, OJ was cleared of all charges. Does that mean he wasn't guilty?
You don't understand it is impossible to fool the scientific method forever. This is why new science replaces old science. International projects of this scale in so many peoples hands cannot be faked. It is an impossibility.
Do you think they could fake the dinosaurs too?
Answer those questions I asked you in the last post. What would it take for you guys to buy it? I think the answer is nothing, because there's nothing we could show you that you couldn't just say "that's not science". So you tell me, the data obviously isn't doing it, the numbers don't mean anything, the charts are pointless, even the gradual climb in global temperatures since we started recording isn't enough!
So what will it take Doc? Keenly?
Yes, OJ was found to be not guilty by a jury of his peers in a court of law. The two cases aren't even comparable. Read this;
http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1888975/climate_review_finds_scientists_not_guilty_of_dishonesty/
Then check out what you guys are doing;
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/specials/climate_change/news/Climate_scientists_still_trying_to_restore_trust.html?cid=17990364
Congrats.
doc111
Well-Known Member
I'm well aware of what I wrote. Took my own comment out of context? How does somebody even do that? What I am saying is that we don't really know what the future holds. The stuff you post sometimes would lead one to believe that you have a crystal ball. I don't claim to have any of these answers because this shit is too complex. Our ecosystems and how they interact are just beginning to be understood. The role which Carbon Dioxide plays in climate change may be overstated. Who knows? Methane and water vapor are far more potent greenhouse gases. My position is that we SHOULD be working toward sustainability, whatever that means, regardless. The danger of not acting, if there is any possibility that this threat is real, is far too great for us not to act. It may already be too late.Keenly, if that were true, that would mean that hundreds of thousands of people would all have to be in on the same thing, working for the US government. Do you know how many people there are studying climate change?
Also, why would scientists in China, Russia, and other not-so-allied US countries come up with the same results to push the US's cap n trade agenda?
The statement I put in bold is a critical mistake on your part, and dangerous for the rest of us, and it's the same thing religious people pull with piltdown man and evolution.
You took your own quote out of context. Did you read the other 3/4 of your post before you posted it? It's basically saying "we need more information, lets not jump to any conclusions just yet, we have to wait till we have more information before we do anything...". You already read my reply to that shit, we don't have time to sit around and wait, especially when you guys won't accept any of the data. So we wait and wait, then wait some more, then discover something new, and if it leans towards climate change at all you guys dismiss it as "bunk science".
You don't understand it is impossible to fool the scientific method forever. This is why new science replaces old science. International projects of this scale in so many peoples hands cannot be faked. It is an impossibility.
Do you think they could fake the dinosaurs too?
Answer those questions I asked you in the last post. What would it take for you guys to buy it? I think the answer is nothing, because there's nothing we could show you that you couldn't just say "that's not science". So you tell me, the data obviously isn't doing it, the numbers don't mean anything, the charts are pointless, even the gradual climb in global temperatures since we started recording isn't enough!
So what will it take Doc? Keenly?
Yes, OJ was found to be not guilty by a jury of his peers in a court of law. The two cases aren't even comparable. Read this;
http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1888975/climate_review_finds_scientists_not_guilty_of_dishonesty/
Then check out what you guys are doing;
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/specials/climate_change/news/Climate_scientists_still_trying_to_restore_trust.html?cid=17990364
Congrats.
SouthernGanja
Active Member
Again...what data? 2000 years worth? It seems silly to predict anything using such a small amount of the planets history.
undertheice
Well-Known Member
don't get so wrapped up in the conspiracy angle and you may see how it is entirely possible for not just hundreds of thousands but millions of people to work toward a common end for entirely different reasons. the governments of advanced nations working to control their people and economies. the governments of backward nations looking to advance their own prospects by scapegoating their more industrialized neighbors. academics and scientific institutions seeking acclaim and increases in their funding. fanatical ecological groups willing to go to any extreme to forward their own agendas. countless different reasons to jump on the global warming band wagon.
your dogged belief in the religion of science is laudable, but it has the same lack of perspective as any other blind faith. by your own words you admit the fallibility of the scientific method, yet you choose to place your faith in the cause of the moment. global cooling has morphed into global warming has morphed into a general climate change. some would call this the natural cycling of our planet's weather patterns. faulty modeling, exaggerated conclusions, manipulation of data and myriad other sins mar this theory, but its devotees still cry wolf in the face of growing doubt. they cry that we "don't have time", just as you have, and demand reparations, sacrifices and an immediate change in every facet of our lives. this urgency seems all too convenient. it reeks of false flags and corruption, it is an all too obvious detour down the path toward totalitarianism through the lies of academia.
swishatwista
Well-Known Member
Yea right we're fuckin up the environment and you know it, and if you can't see it...then your pretty fuckin ignorant...look harder
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
What exactly do you mean by this, and what leads you to believe it?
You understand, again bringing the evolution analogy back, that religious people tend to do the exact same thing with the theory of evolution. They say we don't know enough about it, we don't have enough fossil evidence, etc.
From what I understand, we have a pretty good idea about how our climate works, the forces behind it and what drives everything. What kinds of things don't they know about climate? Be specific.
You would think the people studying climate change and the role Carbon Dioxide plays, wouldn't you?
Why don't you believe these people and what they say? Because of the whole "climategate" scandal, right? Even though the guy was cleared... That's the idea. You don't need to be found guilty, you just need to be slandered, then your work is tarnished and look what happens. You guys need to take a closer look at this stuff. Yes, I agree, it would be silly to try to predict an accurate model of the Earth's climate based on only 2,000 years of data... But we have more than that, much more. We have millions of years worth of data. We know, it's not a guess, we know the temperature of the planet during the time of the dinosaurs, we know the temperature during all 22 of the ice ages the planet has gone through, and we know it's increasing at a constant rate per decade since accurate measurements began, and strong evidence supporting industrial technologies playing a part.
I do see how that is possible. That isn't what I'm saying. I am saying it's impossible for a global climate change conspiracy to be taking place. Why do I think it's impossible? Because there are scientists from literally every single country on the planet studying the effects, right now, independently, and they are all coming to the exact same conclusions. I posted in BigP's other thread a while back how many people are studying it, how many universities in the US and abroad actively study climate change and its effects, and what happened? ... "they're in on it", "they're working towards an agenda", etc.
How could this work? One of you guys using this as a defense of a global climate change conspiracy taking place should explain it.
So is that what you believe? A global climate change conspiracy is taking place?
Clearly it doesn't, or I wouldn't be stupid enough to buy into it's logic. "The religion of science" has given you everything you have. It has a fail proof system, this is what you guys don't understand. What science discovers is put through the gauntlet of scrutiny and criticism by the smartest minds ever born.
I'd love to hear some examples of things science has discovered that later turned out to be wrong. You guys always use that line, what kinds of things? How bout how they were discovered to be wrong, who was it that figured that out?...
The scientific method is the best system devised to discern reality. Do you disagree with that?
Nice talking point, but not exactly. It has always been "climate change", and I went over this exact same thing for jeff in that other thread. They change the name to make it more accurate. "Global warming" implies when the climate changes, it always increases. This isn't the case, and it wasn't the case when they were calling it "global warming". It's called "climate change" because of these retarded criticisms of small gaps in the overall climate record that imply a "global cooling", but in reality, overall, the climate is still increasing.
The people using that line are the same ones I remember saying "Global warming?! Yeah, and we had record snow in Virginia today!.." (ie. they don't know the difference between "climate" and "weather"... yet you put your faith in them, why?
I just don't see how you people want to stay on oil. Honestly, can you give me one good reason why? One? It damages the planet. It destroys nations in the pursuit of obtaining control of it. I have plenty of reasons why, even without climate change, if everything was going great and nothing was happening, we should abandon that shit once and for all, but lets hear the reasons you've got for so vehemently opposing any transition, at all, into alternative renewable energy sources.