Yellow leaves top to bottom. HELP :-(

What is causing this


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    13

karmeron

Active Member
My Setup.

The grow is an indoor Biobizz All-mix Soil grow.

The Strain is Unknown bagseed, which looks like a mix of indica/sativa.

Plants are 65 days old, in their 4th week of flowering.

Lights are 600w HPS and 1x 125w blue cfl. Lights are 10in from the smallest plant (in the middle of the light) and the tallest are growing past the light on the edge and I have an oscillating fan blowing right between the light and tops of plants. I have done the back of the hand test and i can hold my hand where the plants are with no discomfort and none of the plants seem to be showing burnt leaf tips or anything.


I feed the plants when the soil is dry (not too dry though) which turns out to be every second day. I am following the biobizz schedule for the all-mix soil.

At the moment I am feeding 1 ml/litre of bio-grow and 3 ml/litre bio-bloom and 2 ½ level tablespoons of molasses(non-sulphured) per 5litres water, for the past 3 feeds I have also been adding 1 level tablespoon of Epsom salts per the 5litres of water thinking that it was an MG def. Also a week ago I tried 2ml/litre bio-grow for extra Nitrogen in case it was an N deficiency.


The ph of the feed is between 6.5-6.7 of feed is no more no less. Im using a Milwaukee pH 600 digital tester. The runoff is always .2 higher then the feed(6.7-6.9). The water is left out for about 12 hours to evaporate the chlorine before going into the plant.

Temps in room are 25 degrees C to 30 degrees C during the day (depending on outside temps), never goes above 30C, then 20-25 degrees C at night.
Humidity is 40%-60%.

Yellowing of lower leaves started between 1st- 2nd week of flowering and has got progressively worse, but only on about 3-4 of the plants. Now it seems to be spreading to the other plants from what I can see and a lot of leaves are dropping off. I know during flowering they are supposed to yellow a bit, but this is spreading all the way up the plant on some of the plants and im not sure there will be any green left on any of the leaves before it finishes which will surely effect how the plant can use the light etc. Ive only started using Epsom salts the past 3 feeds (6 days) and because the bad pants are so yellow im finding it very hard to see if its making a difference at all. I “think” ive narrowed the problem down to either a Nitrogen or Magnesium deficiency, but I haven’t ruled out Iron deficiency or possibly Sulphur deficiency (though that usually starts with young leaves not the bottom ones). Ive read that “If the starting water is above 200 ppm, that is pretty hard water, that will lock out mg with all of the calcium in the water”, i do have hardwater afaik, could this be it?

Can anyone shed some light on this? What should I do?

How can you identify the difference between Nitrogen or Magnesium deficiency when it is widespread already?
Also does salt build-up in the soil always manifest itself by very high or very lo PH of the runoff water? Or can you have a salt build-up in the soil and still have good ph of the runoff water?

19 aug: just fed with 10ml grow, 15ml bloom, 3/4 tablespoon epsom salts and 2 tablespoons molasses all in 5litres water, all ph balanced to 6.6.

PS sorry for the long post ;-) and crap pics (i only have a cameraphone).

Any help appriciated as
some plants 70-80% yellow and lots of leaves dropping off over time
 

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714Skyhi

Active Member
to much nutrients,and possibly your lights are to close to your plants they looks a little fried
 

karmeron

Active Member
I did the usual "back of the hand test" on the lights and can leave my hand there no bother though, have 2x fans blowing between lights and plants, the burning your eeing is from the yellowing i think.

What are you basing the too much nutrient on? I am following the biobizzz guide, even using slightly less bloom. Whats the difference between a deficiency and too much nutes on the leaves?? How can you tell?

If its a deficiency will flushing them not make it worse especially with bio soil, if i flush it will flush all the micro nutrients out. I only want to flush if im 100% certain I need to

Thats why i asked:
Also does salt build-up in the soil always manifest itself by very high or very lo PH of the runoff water? Or can you have a salt build-up in the soil and still have good ph of the runoff water?


Thanks for the input. ;)
 

rucca

Active Member
I don't think they are burnt, I think it is N deficiency. Using 5mL/L Grow and 5mL/L Bloom here on week 5 and I have similar problem but not as yellow and mainly only the oldest leaves
 

karmeron

Active Member
wat soil are you using?
biobizz all-mix

I don't think they are burnt, I think it is N deficiency. Using 5mL/L Grow and 5mL/L Bloom here on week 5 and I have similar problem but not as yellow and mainly only the oldest leaves
wow thats a lot, are the plants ok with that? that in all-mix soil aswell?
how long have they shown yellowing? how long have you been using 5mL/L Grow and 5mL/L Bloom ?
 

rucca

Active Member
Yeah, I forgot they are in ProMix - so I go by the higher dosing chart - I have slowly bumped the level up to where it is though. I don't think there is much risk of burn with these products
 

karmeron

Active Member
even in the all-mix soil? the schedule just says use 1ml/L of grow for the entire grow with all-mix soil.
 

karmeron

Active Member
But it definitly does look like an N Deficiency, can a root-bound plant get that? Or too much of another element lock out N?
 

rucca

Active Member
Dunno - your pots look plenty big from what I can see. I was just kinda assuming mine was a pH problem because I don't have a pH tester or test pH - but you say your pH is straight and they look similar. I almost wonder if the bloom and grow just isn't enough
 

freddiemoney

Well-Known Member
Does the Biobizz chart say to feed every time at those levels? Generally if you're growing in soil and feeding every time, you'd use a reduced amount compared to what is recommended to avoid salt buildup. If those are clay pots, they may be leaching water from the soil and leaving all the nutrients behind to build up.

I used Biobizz years ago, and I had good results, but I wasn't feeding every time. If I remember correctly, both the grow and the bloom are made up almost entirely of molasses. This makes adding even more molasses to the mix pointless and it may complicate things. Is there a list on the fertilizer bottles of all the elements? Is it complete?
I think you're laying the epsom salt on pretty strong. It's recommended at around two teaspoons per gallon, so around a tablespoon per 5L.

I'd try just giving them pHed water for the next few times and see if they perk up. I just don't think there's any way they're using all the food that you're giving them every two days. Do you have any way to test the EC of the runoff?
 

Polecat

Active Member
I think you should try lowering the ph levels of your soil and your nutes to closer to 6.0 to 6.3. Unless your nutes say to run that high.
 

karmeron

Active Member
Dunno - your pots look plenty big from what I can see. I was just kinda assuming mine was a pH problem because I don't have a pH tester or test pH - but you say your pH is straight and they look similar. I almost wonder if the bloom and grow just isn't enough
Thats what im thinking. I read another thread on another site that had the same problem, he bosted his feed to 5ml/L grow, 6ml/L bloom for a few feeds and the yellow leaves went back green. The biobizz nites are very week NPK=grow 8-2-6, bloom 2-6-3.5.


Does the Biobizz chart say to feed every time at those levels? Generally if you're growing in soil and feeding every time, you'd use a reduced amount compared to what is recommended to avoid salt buildup. If those are clay pots, they may be leaching water from the soil and leaving all the nutrients behind to build up.

I used Biobizz years ago, and I had good results, but I wasn't feeding every time. If I remember correctly, both the grow and the bloom are made up almost entirely of molasses. This makes adding even more molasses to the mix pointless and it may complicate things. Is there a list on the fertilizer bottles of all the elements? Is it complete?
I think you're laying the epsom salt on pretty strong. It's recommended at around two teaspoons per gallon, so around a tablespoon per 5L.

I'd try just giving them pHed water for the next few times and see if they perk up. I just don't think there's any way they're using all the food that you're giving them every two days. Do you have any way to test the EC of the runoff?
the biobizz do say to feed everytime, thew npk values are very low from them.
The pots are plastic
I only started using molasses the last 3 feeds, the yellowing was already bad before that.
For epsom salts I use 3 quarters of a tablespoon per 5litres, thats what i said above.
I dont have an ec meter unfortunatly, the npk of biobizz is very low so im not sure if they are getting enough rather than overfeed, il probably try a flush and a good feed.


dude, it is a phosphorus deficiency and nitrogen possibly but mostly P. its not even on the poll...
What makes you say that?

I think you should try lowering the ph levels of your soil and your nutes to closer to 6.0 to 6.3. Unless your nutes say to run that high.
All guides online have said ph 6.5-7 for soil and less for hydro, what makes you say lower it?


Thanks for all the input guys, some good suggestions.
 

carokann

Active Member
cause the bruised looking leaves is phosphorus deficiency i had it. got rid of it in hours after giving it nutes.
 

Polecat

Active Member
Thats what im thinking. I read another thread on another site that had the same problem, he bosted his feed to 5ml/L grow, 6ml/L bloom for a few feeds and the yellow leaves went back green. The biobizz nites are very week NPK=grow 8-2-6, bloom 2-6-3.5.



the biobizz do say to feed everytime, thew npk values are very low from them.
The pots are plastic
I only started using molasses the last 3 feeds, the yellowing was already bad before that.
For epsom salts I use 3 quarters of a tablespoon per 5litres, thats what i said above.
I dont have an ec meter unfortunatly, the npk of biobizz is very low so im not sure if they are getting enough rather than overfeed, il probably try a flush and a good feed.



What makes you say that?


All guides online have said ph 6.5-7 for soil and less for hydro, what makes you say lower it?


Thanks for all the input guys, some good suggestions.
My info comes from Ed Rosenthal's book MJ growers handbook.It claims that 5.8 to 6.5 is the best PH for soil grows.

Since I got his book my problems have gone down and my plants up. Good info is like finding some stashed nug . It's thier just have to find it. I couldn't. Thats why I got a book. Jorge's next.
 

karmeron

Active Member
cause the bruised looking leaves is phosphorus deficiency i had it. got rid of it in hours after giving it nutes.
I just fed 5ml/L biobizz grow, 5ml/L biobizz bloom @ PH 6.6, so we'll see if that fixes anything. If not I'll do a flush.

My info comes from Ed Rosenthal's book MJ growers handbook.It claims that 5.8 to 6.5 is the best PH for soil grows.

Since I got his book my problems have gone down and my plants up. Good info is like finding some stashed nug . It's thier just have to find it. I couldn't. Thats why I got a book. Jorge's next.
thanks mate, il have a look into that.
 
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