Most of the military does not see it as Them fighting for us, most are just doing what they are told to do. I think most of us know they are there to take those countries resources.
i got your middle class....hanging
- Thread starter jeff f
- Start date
huffy420
Well-Known Member
Im not Union (Fuck Union) I am co-owner of a metal fabrication company. We are a small business. Taxes add up fast and are unrelenting. Not only am I grossly taxed on my personal paycheck (single,no dependants) but I also pay out several thousand a week in unemployment taxes and matching payroll taxes. It takes alot of money to keep this train rolling. Luckly my state is such a shit hole the recession hasnt caused too much damage. Everyone else has fallen down to our level LoL!
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
The FED cannot buy them from the treasury. It's not legal. We Talked through this in the how banking works thread a while back. And I still have not seen an example of the fed purchasing a new treasury security.
All your other stuff is just another way to say people buy shit and there is inflation at all times (even if in the more paranoid views of extreme and least likely situations), not anything new really right? You just are in favor of slight deflation while I am in favor of slight inflation. I argue that inflation forces savers to look for the best investments to grow businesses and companies to have access to capital markets to borrow for that expansion, and you look at it as slavery to the banks.
I fall back on the fact we are among the top in almost every conceivable industry and have a GDP far larger than any other economy, and it is no surprise that the countries that do well do so because they trade with us. And it is not a zero sum game, we all benefit. And even if none of that matters, you still don't let Peyton manning slip to 5th round. There is almost zero chance that we would lose enough in the value of our dollar to slip our economy down a slot, much less enough to do what you are saying will happen.
medicineman
New Member
Concerning the "Bush" tax cuts for the rich: What the politicians aren't telling you is this; The bush tax cuts for the rich, (And the middle class) are now in effect and have been in effect since 2003. This being said, the loss of some 13 million jobs happened under these "Tax Cuts" When the republicans/righties say extending these tax cuts will provide many more jobs, my question has to be, Well what the fuck happened for the last 10 fucking years then? We saw what happened, the rich invested their money in their pockets, got immensely wealthier and the rest of us got fucked. The republicans want to repeal everything the dems have done since Obama came to office, oil well rules, medical rules, work safety rules, mine safety rules, basically every rule that protects the workers, the environment, our food and drugs, etc....... afterall, these are just hinderances to profit.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
I gotta disagree, tax cuts cannot really be a bad thing in the short run. Those people dont just sit on their money, they put it into banks and businesses that really do help out our economy in the form of business loans to allow for expansion, purchase of new goods to sell, us to have credit to make the purchases we want, ect.
What is bad is cutting government spending (for the most part, there are always exceptions). I know people hate to hear it, but I really feel this is a structural issue. We do not have enough skilled workers and entrepreneurs with the skills to invent new industries that create demand for those skilled workers.
All of the cheap manual labor goes to other countries, which like it or not is not bad long term for america because we get our goods for far cheaper than we could make them saving us all more than the jobs we lose. It really just comes down to us not getting the skills we needed those displaced workers to get. There is every chance under the sun to get a education here in the states between school loans, financial aid, pell grants, scholarships.... We just really do need more people to go after it.
What is bad is cutting government spending (for the most part, there are always exceptions). I know people hate to hear it, but I really feel this is a structural issue. We do not have enough skilled workers and entrepreneurs with the skills to invent new industries that create demand for those skilled workers.
All of the cheap manual labor goes to other countries, which like it or not is not bad long term for america because we get our goods for far cheaper than we could make them saving us all more than the jobs we lose. It really just comes down to us not getting the skills we needed those displaced workers to get. There is every chance under the sun to get a education here in the states between school loans, financial aid, pell grants, scholarships.... We just really do need more people to go after it.
These are the people that ideally would be the ones that earned a high school diploma, and the people relying on the HS diploma move into a college, some college have a 4 year degree, and the 4 year degree'rs get their masters and PHDs.
Quantitative easing is EXACTLY that, they purchase the T-Bills DIRECTLY. Have you not studied debt monetization yet?
Han you come from Bizzarro world right? Where everything is the opposite of reality. Where you can bake a cake and eat it too, where you make your bed but aren't required to lay in it. A place where a gift horses mouth has short teeth and Unicorns shit out rainbows. Your kids are going to grow up ridiculing your economic views just like you do your old mans religious views because they are going to live in a society of 90+% taxation to pay for the debt you so gladly pushed on them. QE2 Will only greatly enhance inflation. If you think 6% inflation on groceries per month is bad now, you just wait.
But of course if we just all had PHd's we would be at less than 2% unemployment and on top of the world again, right?
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
Seriously how many times you going to pull out these crazy ass numbers, again, full employment in America is most likely between four and five percent, people will still move, get fired, have kids, quit ect. You seriously just can't see how having everyone better educated would mean that there are million of more people thinking of new industries and innovations?
How the hell do you think someone that has never really had to work with computers to come up with new software? Or people whose skills stopped at picking shit up and walking it across the room to come up with a new engine? We need to get away from this stupid idea that they don't need no education. It's retarded. Shit man things today are far more advanced than they have ever been before and it is only going to get more so. If we don't start to really pick it up education wise we will stay stagnant.
It's to the point that manufactuers don't even want to hire people that don't have degrees because being on the lines is becoming more advanced and they want people to be able to take on more roles in those companies.
How the hell do you think someone that has never really had to work with computers to come up with new software? Or people whose skills stopped at picking shit up and walking it across the room to come up with a new engine? We need to get away from this stupid idea that they don't need no education. It's retarded. Shit man things today are far more advanced than they have ever been before and it is only going to get more so. If we don't start to really pick it up education wise we will stay stagnant.
It's to the point that manufactuers don't even want to hire people that don't have degrees because being on the lines is becoming more advanced and they want people to be able to take on more roles in those companies.
Snagged off investipedia but feel free to prove me wrong. Wiki says the same thing.
Sorry man you have it wrong, the FED cannot purchase directly from the treasury.
Smart people did those things. You can't educate someone to be intelligent.
And while I believe a good education is a great thing for many people, for others it is a complete waste of time and money. I would say 50% of college grads don't actually know jack shit, they might know the correct answers to certain questions ( Who was the first president) but its a conditioned response your getting. No actual thought behind the answer. Most people go to college because a Degree of some type is a prerequisite for most professional jobs, not because they have a great yearning for general knowledge. Your just advocating that we can just take any dumb ass off the street, send him to Princeton and hes gonna be the next Johnny Cochran or Joe the plumber would now be a rocket scientist coming up with new ways to go faster than the speed of light just as long as he got some more schooling. Education is not the answer to all the woes of the world, there is no one size fits all cure for what ails the nation. The only way to fix all problems of this world is unlimited resources, but our world is finite. And the fact remains Bill Gates really did drop out of college, no matter how much you want to sugar coat it. He was smart, Harvard wasn't offering him anything he needed, obviously. Hey, Maybe if he goes back and finishes his degree he can create a company so powerful that HE will rule the world with an iron fist?
Gold at an all time high $1,290, Silver $21. Wait for gold to hit $1,300, pullback then exceed $1,300. The fun begins.
laughingduck
Well-Known Member
I would love to see the flat tax instated, it would end all this class warfare!
jeff f
New Member
that would definitely be a step in the right direction. what might even be better is assigning everyone a taxmaster. you would get every penny you earned, then have to report to the tax master and pay him cash right out of your check.
okay sir, you made 800 bucks this week. you owe me 250 for payroll tax, 20 bucks for your cell phone, 15 bucks for your electric..etc. sir you just pumped 46 bucks worth of gas, now give me 23 to pay your tax debt.
it would take about 2 days for average person to realize how much is actually being confiscated agaisnt your will. the system now is so screwed up that its impossible to even figure how much you pay.
laughingduck
Well-Known Member
What seems crazy to me is people do not seem to care what they take as long as they think they are getting more back in return. When half of what is sent to washington gets eaten by the buerocracy it does not make sense to me. I have come to the conclusion that it does not pay me to make over 80 grand a year, i can live alright on that. Making 150 i am just workin to pay the unmotivated thier checks. It sucks to nearly work myself to death to get to a pay bracket, then not be rewarded for it.
jeff f
New Member
i did the same thing. was making six figures then when i had to start paying for 10 peoples workmans comp, basically said fuck it. not worth the extra headaches for such little return. still have 2 guys but totally under the table. if they start making me pay for them....adios.
its sad because many of my friends who have the ability to create jobs have said the same thing. fucking govt makes it almost impossible for small construction company to make it. and then throw in the leeches looking to sue....work 50 years and lose it all cuz some dumb fuck tripped over a ladder.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
jeff f
New Member
tell me how helping to feed 2 families makes me a leech.
keep talking, your words are a conservatives best weapon.....
budsmoker87
New Member
this is why i like the idea of living in a commune lol
hungry? grow/hunt/gather
thirsty? irrigate
we have the technology to live in luxury without having to even pay for it
hungry? grow/hunt/gather
thirsty? irrigate
we have the technology to live in luxury without having to even pay for it
medicineman
New Member
History tells us that the most important social changes--reforms that improved the lives of working people and expanded democracy and freedom--didn't come about because of proposals in Washington, but because working people organized and struggled for them.
The spirit of solidarity that we build today--in our unions, workplaces, schools and communities, in movements to save our schools in California or stop foreclosures in Boston--will be the basis for a real fight for jobs, and ultimately for real economic justice.
There's a term not heard much on this forum, Economic Justice. Has a nice ring to it.
The spirit of solidarity that we build today--in our unions, workplaces, schools and communities, in movements to save our schools in California or stop foreclosures in Boston--will be the basis for a real fight for jobs, and ultimately for real economic justice.
There's a term not heard much on this forum, Economic Justice. Has a nice ring to it.
undertheice
Well-Known Member
economic justice is just another way of saying wealth redistribution and that is merely the theft of property from some for the enrichment of the state and the maintenance of the poor. the only ones such idiocy serves are our would-be masters in government.