Income tax

[Johnnyorganic]

And there you have it.

"From each according to his ability to each according to his need."

It tickles me how Progressives get all gunched up over percentages of income and ignore the hard numbers. The affluent pay most of the income taxes. A staggering amount of taxes. It's irrefutable.

Yet Progressives seem to think the affluent don't pay enough. And to further the class warfare confusion, Progressives happily ignore tax cheats like like Timothy Geithner and John Kerry.

There is one percentage Progessives consistently and conveniently ignore: The bottom 47% of filers pay no income tax.

It's fine to lecture the rest of us on fairness, but at least defend a tax system that is actually fair.

And a tax structure where nearly half of the population is in the cart rather than out front pulling is fundamentally unfair.

 

[BudMcLovin]

But those guys paying most of the taxes are the “evil rich people”. Remember the liberals in this country think they “made their money off the backs of the poor and under privileged. They made their money by cheating the system or they inherited it so they don’t deserve it any way.” They don’t want equal opportunity they want equal results.

Liberals and progressives think there are only so many pieces of the pie and they’re going to get theirs even if they have to destroy free society to do it. They don’t realize that successful individuals make new pies.

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy”. LINK

 

[Parker]

And there you have it.

"From each according to his ability to each according to his need."

It tickles me how Progressives get all gunched up over percentages of income and ignore the hard numbers. The affluent pay most of the income taxes. A staggering amount of taxes. It's irrefutable.

Yet Progressives seem to think the affluent don't pay enough. And to further the class warfare confusion, Progressives happily ignore tax cheats like like Timothy Geithner and John Kerry.

There is one percentage Progessives consistently and conveniently ignore: The bottom 47% of filers pay no income tax.

It's fine to lecture the rest of us on fairness, but at least defend a tax system that is actually fair.

And a tax structure where nearly half of the population is in the cart rather than out front pulling is fundamentally unfair.

I like this one best "From each according to his ability to each according to his need."
translation "Stealing is okay as long as you really, really need it."

 

[Dinosaur Bone]

Liberals and progressives think there are only so many pieces of the pie and they’re going to get theirs even if they have to destroy free society to do it. They don’t realize that successful individuals make new pies.

You characterize "successful" differently than a progocialist does. To them "successful" means a stereotyped & cliched socialist professor, preferably at an Ivy League University. One who teaches pie cutters, to re-fuckulate pie.

 

[Countryfarmer]

Hanimal, you have to have a rebate of taxation for the cost of basic living to be fair. We should never tax the cost of providing the basic necessities of life. The consumption tax with the most publicity is the currently titled Fair Tax. It actually calls for a prebate of taxes paid at the poverty level. Paying for electricity is certainly a basic cost of living in today's modern society, and the cost of it is included in poverty level figures.

There is no doubt that if the Fair Tax were adopted in its current form it would shift a small percentage of the tax burden to those in the 60K to 200K income range. Those in the lowest income decile would actually receive a refundable credit from the government. In other words, they will get more money back than what they pay into the tax system via the national sales tax.

 

[ganja girl]

Original question - Income tax If paying income tax was Voluntary and there were no repercussions from not paying, how many of you would still pay it?

I would pay about 20%.

 

[mrmadcow]

.... Seems to me the wealthy didn't pony up with their cuts and start up new enterprises providing jobs but moreover they horded the money and actually cut more jobs and sent their factories overseas..

why invest your money if the government will only take it away? as you said

....BTW, under Dwight Eisenhower, a republican, the top tax rates were 90%. I would like to see those re-instated. That would cure our deficit in a few years. Of course there would have to be stipulations, like if you move out of the country to avoid taxes, none of your earnings could come from the USA, And a few other remedial rules..

GREAT IDEA!!! now that will get the wealthy to "pony up with their cash and start up new enterprises providing jobs" instead of "hording their money and actually cut more jobs and sent their factories overseas"

as to the orignal question,if I could earmark where my money went, yes, I would pay most of what they want.but just send the money to the clowns in washington to use as they see fit?
ROTFLMAO

 

[mrmadcow]

I like this one best "From each according to his ability to each according to his need."
translation "Stealing is okay as long as you really, really need it."

I prefer the translation adopted by the soviet constitution
"He who does not work, neither shall he eat."

 

[Rob Roy]

It is your opinion that it is a necessary evil. I believe it is necessary to actually have public allocation of funds that go to benefit the society. Whether or not it is being done in an efficient manner (which I don't believe to be the case at the moment) is something else. Personally I believe the states should raise their income taxes while the federal government lowers their's substantially.

No it isn't my opinion that it is a necesssary evil. I think it is an unnecessary evil. There are no "necessary evils".

Now we're getting into whether or not law is always "right" or "moral" or "ethical." The law of the land regarding one's own liberties is not black and white as you seem to make it out to me. It is not that you do or you don't own your body. Black and white thinking isn't great, btw. And the law of the land is often wrong? Is this based off of anecdotal experience? Or some kind of study? I sympathize and absolutely hate the fact that there was a time in our country's history when such a large number of individuals (and even to this day) were not given the same liberties as white men did. The constitution has been paraded as one of the greatest documents in history regarding the freedom it gave to others, but a lot of those freedoms took centuries to be fully awarded.

No, it IS that I own my body. If I don't somebody else does. If somebody else owns or attempts to own my body, they are practicing a form of slavery. Freeedoms are not granted or awarded by somebody else or they aren't freedoms, they are priveleges.

 

[Countryfarmer]

No, it IS that I own my body. If I don't somebody else does. If somebody else owns or attempts to own my body, they are practicing a form of slavery. Freeedoms are not granted or awarded by somebody else or they aren't freedoms, they are priveleges.

Another reason why I like a consumption tax. If you wanted to, you could choose to be tax free by being completely self-sufficient, and not partaking of any of civilization's luxury's. It only taxes consumption, which you have no natural right to.

 

[klmmicro]

I am below the level of income where I am required to file. That makes me part of the 47% I guess. If I was making enough "taxable income" to have to pay and it was voluntary, then no...I would opt out, at least at the federal level. I would probably pay into local as I am directly affected by what they spend. The federal system is not providing anything I require.

 

[Countryfarmer]

I am below the level of income where I am required to file. That makes me part of the 47% I guess. If I was making enough "taxable income" to have to pay and it was voluntary, then no...I would opt out, at least at the federal level. I would probably pay into local as I am directly affected by what they spend. The federal system is not providing anything I require.

Biggest thing the feds provide that we all need .... national defense. I think we could spend a hell of a lot less on national defense if we decided to stop playing world cop, but all empires in history have done what we are doing now, police the civilized world.

 

[klmmicro]

Biggest thing the feds provide that we all need .... national defense. I think we could spend a hell of a lot less on national defense if we decided to stop playing world cop, but all empires in history have done what we are doing now, police the civilized world.

Yes, you bring up a good point. Not sure if it actually requires trillions of dollars to accomplish the defense of our borders though. They are definitely spending more than is required.

 

[Parker]

Biggest thing the feds provide that we all need .... national defense. I think we could spend a hell of a lot less on national defense if we decided to stop playing world cop, but all empires in history have done what we are doing now, police the civilized world.

and because they have done this, ALL lost their empires.

 

[Rob Roy]

Yes, you bring up a good point. Not sure if it actually requires trillions of dollars to accomplish the defense of our borders though. They are definitely spending more than is required.

Of all the "defense" spending, the U.S.A. spends the most nearly half of what the entire world spends. Ameeeerica Fuck yeah!!

 

[tip top toker]

I certainly would not pay income tax in the way it is paid now, in that you pay some omney and that get's spent anyhow and anywhere. I wuold however have no problem turning around and saying look, here is £50, put it into this road project please. But it's when they take that £50 by "law" and then give it to some waste of space "negotiator" or some random 3rd world country that really don't deserve the money until they sort themselevs the hell out.

In short i will decide where money i donate i spent.

 

[hanimmal]

Hanimal, you have to have a rebate of taxation for the cost of basic living to be fair. We should never tax the cost of providing the basic necessities of life. The consumption tax with the most publicity is the currently titled Fair Tax. It actually calls for a prebate of taxes paid at the poverty level. Paying for electricity is certainly a basic cost of living in today's modern society, and the cost of it is included in poverty level figures.

There is no doubt that if the Fair Tax were adopted in its current form it would shift a small percentage of the tax burden to those in the 60K to 200K income range. Those in the lowest income decile would actually receive a refundable credit from the government. In other words, they will get more money back than what they pay into the tax system via the national sales tax.

One of the side effects of trolling this board is you get to know a lot about the "fair tax" scheme.

What I was saying was more along the lines of surplus income to reinvest and grow, the more money you make, the smaller and smaller of a percentage you need to use to buy the goods you want, which means you have substantially more Income to grow, and that also means that as a percentage your paying less taxes overall.

Another reason why I like a consumption tax. If you wanted to, you could choose to be tax free by being completely self-sufficient, and not partaking of any of civilization's luxury's. It only taxes consumption, which you have no natural right to.

Ok then, You got me curious, I've read your other posts and know you may have a good reason to feel this way, so If you feel like it I would like to hear your pitch on this.

Major things I feel are bad about consumption tax would be:
1. Really removes taxes off of the upper earners because they would only be taxed on the portion that they spend right? Since most are able to save they would pay much less percentage wise than the middle earners.

2. The economic swings of consumption would make federally funded programs more difficult to plan.

There's more, but I've been procrastinating getting my work done.

 

[redivider]

stop arguing against income tax, and start arguing about the motherf$%@ wasting the money.

debate as much as you can about income tax, flat tax rates, fair taxes..... it doesn't matter. the government could confiscate 100% of our income but it wouldn't be enough because they keep wasting it.

a billion dollars in aid to a third world country that is devastated by natural disasters is an honorable way to spend money.

a program like the 'star wars' program started by reagan, which kept humming for several years after the technology was considered outdated, at a cost of several million dollars per year, that is WASTE. like the current war on terror and the war on drugs, it was kept in place for our safety, supposedly....

if accountability can't be achieved in politics and congress, and while those pricks keep avoiding the tough questions, using sly politics to further agendas that don't really help the american people, then it's pointless to argue about income tax.

the government's gonna tax you, either way, might as well have the majority of those taxes go to the american people, not to some well to do white men's company so they can build large toys to compensate for their "small penis complex".

 

[Johnnyorganic]

One of the side effects of trolling this board is you get to know a lot about the "fair tax" scheme.

What I was saying was more along the lines of surplus income to reinvest and grow, the more money you make, the smaller and smaller of a percentage you need to use to buy the goods you want, which means you have substantially more Income to grow, and that also means that as a percentage your paying less taxes overall.

Ok then, You got me curious, I've read your other posts and know you may have a good reason to feel this way, so If you feel like it I would like to hear your pitch on this.

Major things I feel are bad about consumption tax would be:
1. Really removes taxes off of the upper earners because they would only be taxed on the portion that they spend right? Since most are able to save they would pay much less percentage wise than the middle earners.

2. The economic swings of consumption would make federally funded programs more difficult to plan.

There's more, but I've been procrastinating getting my work done.

Taxing income is a horrible way to raise revenue. It encourages cheating and discourages productivity. It is counterproductive.

1. In reality, the percentage of those who actually pay taxes will not be much different. Affluent people purchase more expensive stuff, hence they will pay more in taxes. Thanks to the prebate, nobody would not pay taxes on necessities. As you like to point out, the poor use a much higher percentage of their incomes to buy necessities. Meaning the Fair Tax does not hurt the poor at all.

2. Government will be forced to do what it should have been doing all along. Live within its means. Most of the states have balanced budget clauses written into their Constitutions, why not the Federal Government? The Fair Tax takes the power to determine the amount of taxes paid away from the government and gives it to the citizens. The people.

As in: A government of the people, by the people, and for the people.

 

[NoDrama]

IMO The USA doesn't really need much for national defense. Kind of like Switzerland in a way. We have a shit load of firearm owners and most know how to use them. Besides who is stupid enough to attack one of the great nuclear powers on earth? I mean honestly how many people think that another country would be able to come here and take us over by force? We don't use our military for defense operations and haven't used them that way for generations, our troops and mercenaries are the attackers of others. IMO we could reduce military spending by 75% and have no worries of invasion. Do we really need 900 bases in other countries? Last year the official military budget was 1.03 trillion, total income taxes received was 1.08 trillion. Almost all tax money is being spent on war. No wonder we have such a huge deficit.