For the science minded smokers out there, check this guys theory out.

[Greenplease]

Kitty

If I'm not mistaken, the creation of water was produced by two different gas particles (correct?) binding and creating a third substance known as H2O, obviously those two particles were oxigen (abundant, and infact in the past, oxigen levels in the atmosphere were much, much higher) and hydrogen which was also in abundance. My way of thinking is that perhaps commets and asteroids helped with the total amount of water here now by bringing frozen gas particles and maybe even ice to the planet, but the majority was infact already here, in gas form, and in turn liquid form. I don't know what prompted the gas particles to bind, or what triggered it, but yeah.

Maybe that's what you were meaning all along, maybe not, but that's my way of thinking, I personally find it hard to believe that ateroids brought all water here to the planet, there is aproximately 1.35 trillion-billion leters of ocean here. Now, that is a lot of water, and while there is no doubt that huge amounts of astroids have collided with the Earth, I doubt that this is the sole reason for our oceans.

I'm not disagreeing just for the sake of it, I thoroughly enjoy science talk, and am just throwing ideas and knowledge out there!!

Much like you Kitty I'm no scientist, I just enjoy the facts, and read a lot.
As for the youtube vid you put up, that series is passing on Discovery here in Brazil at the moment, and I'm enjoying the hell out of it.

 

[mrboots]

Kitty

If I'm not mistaken, the creation of water was produced by two different gas particles (correct?) binding and creating a third substance known as H2O, obviously those two particles were oxigen (abundant, and infact in the past, oxigen levels in the atmosphere were much, much higher) and hydrogen which was also in abundance. My way of thinking is that perhaps commets and asteroids helped with the total amount of water here now by bringing frozen gas particles and maybe even ice to the planet, but the majority was infact already here, in gas form, and in turn liquid form. I don't know what prompted the gas particles to bind, or what triggered it, but yeah.

Maybe that's what you were meaning all along, maybe not, but that's my way of thinking, I personally find it hard to believe that ateroids brought all water here to the planet, there is aproximately 1.35 trillion-billion leters of ocean here. Now, that is a lot of water, and while there is no doubt that huge amounts of astroids have collided with the Earth, I doubt that this is the sole reason for our oceans.

I'm not disagreeing just for the sake of it, I thoroughly enjoy science talk, and am just throwing ideas and knowledge out there!!

Much like you Kitty I'm no scientist, I just enjoy the facts, and read a lot.
As for the youtube vid you put up, that series is passing on Discovery here in Brazil at the moment, and I'm enjoying the hell out of it.

Where did the hydrogen and oxygen come from? The comet/asteroid theory is the commonly accepted theory among scientists.

 

[Greenplease]

Where did the hydrogen and oxygen come from? The comet/asteroid theory is the commonly accepted theory among scientists.

That's where my theory kind of stops I know, but I mean when the universe was created all planets had and have gases as bi-products of the various explosions and eruptions and (as mentioned) asteroid and commet collisions. I'm not saying that this didn't happen, quite to the contrary, I'm just kind of thinking out loud about whether or not this is the sole reason.

Look at Jupiter for example, totally different gases to what we have here, and they have nothing to do with asteroid or commet collision, why does Mars have little to no water, when it is one of our closest neighbours and must have suffered similar amounts of asteroid encounters. It has an active atmosphere, I could be mistaken but ice has been discovered on mars has it not? But in minor quantities when compared with earth. I would understand if mars was completely baking all the time, but it is mostly a cold planet, as far as I'm aware cold makes things freeze, so where is the rest of the ice. When you start to think like that, it does make your mind start to wander does it not??

As I said, I am no scientist, and have no idea what exact gases were around during those times, but it just seems a little unrealistic to me, that all this water came from I don't know how may commets hitting the earth........

 

[ANC]

Look up tiamat, the answers to some of your questions may be known.

 

[researchkitty]

I'm glad to see more questions. When the Universe was first created, elementary quarks turned into particles which after a few steps formed the first few atoms. These are Hydrogen and Helium (Also traces of lithium and berrilyum (spelling), but these dont really matter). The Hydrogen and Helium burn as a nuclear furnace for many millions of years as stars. Our star (the sun) sun is small enough that it burns a VERY long time. Larger stars (our sun is a dwarf star) burn faster because of their size. Smaller burn slower and less hot.

So, after the hydrogen and helium is used up, the star implodes on its own density, and the hydrogen left over starts to greatly expand. Then BOOOOOM! The star explodes. When it explodes, it puts out the light and heat of a MILLION stars of the same size only for a few days. Really! Those few days is when the star is exploding and creating the other elements such as carbon, oxygen, etc.......

Remember too, that comets and asteroids are nothing more than exploded chunks of stars that fell out of a common center of gravity and went elsewhere in the universe. That's how the universe is populated. If you look at a one centimeter square part of the night sky, that's about 100,000 stars represented in that small space. You'll see around ten star explosions in one night by viewing that area with a telescope (and sometimes naked eye!!). Stars collapse and die all the time.

Any more questions, or anything I can try to clarify? I could go on for years......................

 

[researchkitty]

That's where my theory kind of stops I know, but I mean when the universe was created all planets had and have gases as bi-products of the various explosions and eruptions and (as mentioned) asteroid and commet collisions. I'm not saying that this didn't happen, quite to the contrary, I'm just kind of thinking out loud about whether or not this is the sole reason.

Look at Jupiter for example, totally different gases to what we have here, and they have nothing to do with asteroid or commet collision, why does Mars have little to no water, when it is one of our closest neighbours and must have suffered similar amounts of asteroid encounters. It has an active atmosphere, I could be mistaken but ice has been discovered on mars has it not? But in minor quantities when compared with earth. I would understand if mars was completely baking all the time, but it is mostly a cold planet, as far as I'm aware cold makes things freeze, so where is the rest of the ice. When you start to think like that, it does make your mind start to wander does it not??

As I said, I am no scientist, and have no idea what exact gases were around during those times, but it just seems a little unrealistic to me, that all this water came from I don't know how may commets hitting the earth........

You've got the right idea, except you didnt realize that the Universe isnt created all at once. The first bajillion stars had to burn, collapse, and explode in order to *create* the dust and gases that makes up planets like Jupiter.

Ice is 100% for certain on mars. That's what the white caps are, and there's oceans of water under it. The question we have is whether the water is froze, liquid, contains life, etc.... We dont know yet. We do know it isnt vapor in the very thin atmosphere of Mars, as Mars doesnt have magnetic poles to create a shield for water to stay IN the atmosphere. Just remember that all that ice came after the planets initially formed and then were populated by asteroid collisions, not from our current sun which is still very much alive, although about half used up of energy.

The reason our moon looks fairly clean for asteroid hits is because the Moon of Earth does not rotate. We see only one face of the moon, the other side we never see unless we go around it. (The reason the Earth rotates is because the damn moon knocked us off our axis and spun us).

 

[Greenplease]

I get ya, one thing though, are you saying that Jupiter is older than the planet earth? I mean, wasn't our solar system created all at the same time, or nearly the same time?
Would big planets popping up every now and then not have left us with a very different solar system? I don't know, I'm just wondering once again.
I realise that the universe wasn't created all at once, but something as small(space wise) as our solar system would have been created at a fairly fast rate considering the speed at which the blast that came from the pure energy of the big bang was traveling.
Man, this space shit is a mind fuck, haven't scientists just recently revealed that they can see 26 billion light years away or something similar? That must be close to the beginning of our universe! I can't get my head around that hahahaha that is such a long time, and to think that they are infact looking back 26 billion years in time is just incredible. I'm excited about where all these discoveries are taking us!!

Cheers for the replies Kitty!!

 

[assasinofyouth420]

Planets were created by a spinning cloud of gas and debris orbiting our sun. The heavier denser matter orbited close to the sun while a lot of the gases stayed farther away. That is why the inner planets are made of metal and rock and the outer ones are gas.

Also, a super nova doesnt create carbon and other heavy elements in itself. Heavy elements are created by the fusion powering it. When the star goes super nova, it spreads that material out through the universe to be used by planets and people like us.

And another thing to consider about water. Along with water brought from outer space, it is also erupted out of volcanoes. As counter intuitive as it may seem.

 

[researchkitty]

I get ya, one thing though, are you saying that Jupiter is older than the planet earth? I mean, wasn't our solar system created all at the same time, or nearly the same time?
Would big planets popping up every now and then not have left us with a very different solar system? I don't know, I'm just wondering once again.
I realise that the universe wasn't created all at once, but something as small(space wise) as our solar system would have been created at a fairly fast rate considering the speed at which the blast that came from the pure energy of the big bang was traveling.
Man, this space shit is a mind fuck, haven't scientists just recently revealed that they can see 26 billion light years away or something similar? That must be close to the beginning of our universe! I can't get my head around that hahahaha that is such a long time, and to think that they are infact looking back 26 billion years in time is just incredible. I'm excited about where all these discoveries are taking us!!

Cheers for the replies Kitty!!

In the case of *our* specific solar system, our sun is about 4.6 billion years old, the same age as the Earth and Jupiter and Venus, Mercury, etc.... Our solar system was non existant once, and a supernova from a neighboring star exploded, and compressed the dust and gases already in our solar systems region to create the actual current solar system with the sun and all the planets around it. The idea is that the neighboring supernova squeezed the dust and gases close enough to create heat forming them together and creating our solar nebula. Over time it compressed into a disc (the universe is FLAT, not round) and formed what we have today. Not all of the solar nebula is what created our solar system though, as foreign debris and more asteroids continue to make their way over here from everywhere every now and then.

Many people believe the Earth rotates around the Sun. Can anyone tell me why they who believe that are actually wrong? (The Earth does *not* rotate around the Sun)

Whoever was looking back 26 billion years was lying, as the Universe is only 13.75 billion years (we know this to the second decimal, the exact exact age is unknown).

 

[Greenplease]

I was just guessing about the 26 billion years, I watched it on discovery the other day, I just couldn't remember the exact amount. But even so, 13 billion years is incredible enough!

The earth orbits the sun like all the other planets in our solar system, I'm guessing you are meaning in a circular motion when you say (they say) rotate, but in fact it is in a more of an oval motion.

And Assassin, I agree, I don't think that such a huge amount of water came in from stray asteroids and commets alone. The earth had it's own source, how do you explain fresh water springs or geysers for example?? The earth had all the right components to create water. My vote is, that it is a mixture of the two, and maybe even more elements aswell.

 

[researchkitty]

The earth orbits the sun like all the other planets in our solar system, I'm guessing you are meaning in a circular motion when you say (they say) rotate, but in fact it is in a more of an oval motion.

And Assassin, I agree, I don't think that such a huge amount of water came in from stray asteroids and commets alone. The earth had it's own source, how do you explain fresh water springs or geysers for example?? The earth had all the right components to create water. My vote is, that it is a mixture of the two, and maybe even more elements aswell.

Fresh water springs and geysers are from the earth still being molten and moving and natural rain that goes down then comes out. That's just our Earth and atmosphere at work, nothing more!

All of the planets in our solar system dont rotate around the Sun. We do, however, share a common center of gravity. The sun exerts no force of its own on us to keep us rotated, its the gravity that brings the Earth towards the sun and the Sun towards the earth that makes us spin around it.

Next time you "fall" out of a tree, consider that you didnt fall to the ground. The Earth is just the standard reference point and we think we move to it. Under Newtonian Gravity, the Earth and you move towards each other, rather than just you falling. You dont exert force, nor does Earth, its the gravity that pulls you both together at the same time.

Gravity is fun!

 

[assasinofyouth420]

What keeps us from "falling" into the sun is our planets momentum.

 

[researchkitty]

What keeps us from "falling" into the sun is our planets momentum.

I need clarification on your theory.

If you mean what keeps human beings from falling into the sun, it isnt the planets momentum. The Earths gravitational field is what attracts us. The Sun cant attract us at all, because even though it has 1.99 x 1033 grams worth of mass (and gravity), our mass is too small versus our proximities to Earths for the Sun to really have us move towards it.

If you mean what keeps the Earth from falling into the Sun, it actually wont ever do that, in fact its moving away from the Sun. We do orbit elliptically of course, so distance changes all the time. The Sun and Earth have a tide effect similar to the one the Earth and the Moon share. As the Earth slowly (and VERY slowly) moves away from the Sun, it causes the Sun to spin less and Earths gravity to decrease. Since we know the Sun is powered by nuclear fusion with Hydrogen and Helium in my previous posts, the Sun is continuously transforming a small part of its mass into energy. As the mass of the Sun goes down, our orbit gets proportionally bigger We move away from the Sun at a rate of 1.5 cm per year. In total life of the Sun, we'll end up moving about 150,000km in total before it blows the Earth to tiny bits. Thankfully, even at the farthest we will ever be from the Sun, it wont be far enough to affect our temperatures on Earth at all. We do a good enough job of that ourselves with the Ozone.

Now thirdly, if you mean that if the Earth stopped rotating around the Sun, would we hit the Sun, and that's a YES, and it would take approximately two months for the Earth to get to the Suns surface. Most of the Planet would have been vaporized before it could actually touch though. So lets hope nothing stops our sharing of the same center of gravity as the Sun.

 

[assasinofyouth420]

I need clarification on your theory.

...

If you mean what keeps the Earth from falling into the Sun, it actually wont ever do that, in fact its moving away from the Sun. We do orbit elliptically of course, so distance changes all the time. The Sun and Earth have a tide effect similar to the one the Earth and the Moon share. As the Earth slowly (and VERY slowly) moves away from the Sun, it causes the Sun to spin less and Earths gravity to decrease. Since we know the Sun is powered by nuclear fusion with Hydrogen and Helium in my previous posts, the Sun is continuously transforming a small part of its mass into energy. As the mass of the Sun goes down, our orbit gets proportionally bigger We move away from the Sun at a rate of 1.5 cm per year. In total life of the Sun, we'll end up moving about 150,000km in total before it blows the Earth to tiny bits. Thankfully, even at the farthest we will ever be from the Sun, it wont be far enough to affect our temperatures on Earth at all. We do a good enough job of that ourselves with the Ozone.

Now thirdly, if you mean that if the Earth stopped rotating around the Sun, would we hit the Sun, and that's a YES, and it would take approximately two months for the Earth to get to the Suns surface. Most of the Planet would have been vaporized before it could actually touch though. So lets hope nothing stops our sharing of the same center of gravity as the Sun.

I think you clarified it for yourself. If our sun were to suddenly disappear our planet would shoot off in a straight line because it has forward momentum. That momentum combined with the sun's gravity is what makes our orbit the shape it is. So if the planet stopped revolving around the sun the only force acting on it would be the suns gravity and we would eventually fall into the sun. As it is, we are "falling" around the sun. Just like our moon and satellites and whatever else is floating around up there.

 

[RavenMochi]

I've always heard this, the theory that gravity pulls all things together, but why is it when you float 2 objects in water, they don't join, they drift, they may or may not move towards each other? As far as the earth growing, as I recall didn't someone (Eratosthenes) make an accurate estimate of the diameter of the earth? can't we compare the two numbers?

 

[assasinofyouth420]

If the two object were placed in water that was completely still, they absolutely would be drawn to each other. The reason you dont see it is because water currents prevent it and the force between the two objects is miniscule. The formula is (Gm1*m2)/r^2.

An interesting thing about that formula is if you apply it to an astronaut "floating" in space you would find that they havent escaped Earths gravity. The reason they feel weightless is the same reason you feel weightless on a rollercoaster. From falling.

 

[Greenplease]

Fresh water springs and geysers are from the earth still being molten and moving and natural rain that goes down then comes out. That's just our Earth and atmosphere at work, nothing more!

Your answer isn't really that specific man, what do you mean natural rain? Anyway I was talking about billion's of years ago, not today.
Anyway, to maybe refine your theory on where all the water came from. Your theory that the earth was basically molten rock, magma and lava in its infant years is totally true but, the water did not come from (or atleast not JUST from) commets and asteroids colliding with the earth.

A large part of all magma's are water. Obviously not in water form or atleast pure water form, anyway, as water was slowly released by the magma(volcanic eruptions) it started to cool the earth's atmosphere as the atmosphere was and is where the earth stores a very large amount of water, allowing for more water to be relased and to settle(rain) on the suface as a liquid. Inicially the earth was still fucking hot, so the rain would be evaporated fairly quickly and return to the atmosphere, anyway eventually this cooled the surface, and allowed the cravices and huge valley's created by the turbulent molten rock and volcanic storms, to be filled with water, creating our oceans.

Volcanic activity, eruptions and what not are basically what filled the earth with water, and still do fill the earth with fresh water (I don't know to what scale) they say that this process was completed 500 million to 1 billion years ago. Anyway, you can either add that to your theory, or argue it, your choice

Hope this was easy to understand.

Peace, Green

 

[Greenplease]

If the two object were placed in water that was completely still, they absolutely would be drawn to each other. The reason you dont see it is because water currents prevent it and the force between the two objects is miniscule. The formula is (Gm1*m2)/r^2.

An interesting thing about that formula is if you apply it to an astronaut "floating" in space you would find that they havent escaped Earths gravity. The reason they feel weightless is the same reason you feel weightless on a rollercoaster. From falling.

Man, I have absolutely no idea about gravity, and its applied equations, I would love to learn though. I gotta watch more discovery channel!

 

[researchkitty]

Your answer isn't really that specific man, what do you mean natural rain? Anyway I was talking about billion's of years ago, not today.
Anyway, to maybe refine your theory on where all the water came from. Your theory that the earth was basically molten rock, magma and lava in its infant years is totally true but, the water did not come from (or atleast not JUST from) commets and asteroids colliding with the earth.

A large part of all magma's are water. Obviously not in water form or atleast pure water form, anyway, as water was slowly released by the magma(volcanic eruptions) it started to cool the earth's atmosphere as the atmosphere was and is where the earth stores a very large amount of water, allowing for more water to be relased and to settle(rain) on the suface as a liquid. Inicially the earth was still fucking hot, so the rain would be evaporated fairly quickly and return to the atmosphere, anyway eventually this cooled the surface, and allowed the cravices and huge valley's created by the turbulent molten rock and volcanic storms, to be filled with water, creating our oceans.

Volcanic activity, eruptions and what not are basically what filled the earth with water, and still do fill the earth with fresh water (I don't know to what scale) they say that this process was completed 500 million to 1 billion years ago. Anyway, you can either add that to your theory, or argue it, your choice

Hope this was easy to understand.

Peace, Green

Very easy to understand! I'll just cut and paste from Wikipedia for the theories on the Origin of Water on Earth:

1.) The cooling of the primordial Earth to the point where the outgassed volatile components were held in an atmosphere of sufficient pressure for the stabilization and retention of liquid water.

2.) Comets, trans-Neptunian objects or water-rich meteorites (protoplanets) from the outer reaches of the main asteroid belt colliding with the Earth may have brought water to the world's oceans. Measurements of the ratio of the hydrogen isotopes deuterium and protium point to asteroids, since similar percentage impurities in carbon-rich chondrites were found to oceanic water, whereas previous measurement of the isotopes' concentrations in comets and trans-Neptunian objects correspond only slightly to water on the earth.

3.) Biochemically through mineralization and photosynthesis (guttation, transpiration).

4.) Gradual leakage of water stored in hydrous minerals of the Earth's rocks.

5.) Photolysis: radiation can break down chemical bonds on the surface.

Its important to note that when the Earth was still forming and cooling, that most of the water didnt come from that. If it did, we'd have a lot more noble gases in our atmosphere. Thus, some surely came from that, but not the majority of it. After the planet started to cool, the Co2 locked in most of the water vapor in the atmosphere at this point.

It sucks, because above is the most common ideas/theories... Nobody really knows yet. On the argument against the above:

"According to A. Morbidelli [8] the largest part of today's water comes from protoplanets formed in the outer asteroid belt that plunged towards the Earth, as indicated by the D/H proportions in carbon-rich chondrites. The water in carbon-rich chondrites point to a similar D/H ratio as oceanic water. Nevertheless, mechanisms have been proposed[9] to suggest that the D/H-ratio of oceanic water may have increased significantly throughout Earth's history. Such a proposal is consistent with the possibility that a significant amount of the water on Earth was already present during the planet's early evolution."

So its still a bit up in the air. What do I believe? I dont know......... They'll figure it out eventually.

 

[researchkitty]

Man, I have absolutely no idea about gravity, and its applied equations, I would love to learn though. I gotta watch more discovery channel!

I wouldnt worry much about the math. (Although the correct math is F=gm1m2/r^2, the right hand forgot the left hand when introduced a few posts above).

What's important to know about gravity is that there's also anti-gravity, for particles there is anti-particles, and for matter there is anti-matter. Everything has the opposite in our 9 or 10 dimensional Universe. (We can only see 4 of the dimensions, but the other 5 or 6 dimensions can be measured by their effects on visible dimensions and then theorized).