Im currently looking for patients

[guy incognito]

so what if a caregiver fills up the five slots and is running a 4 room setup to keep the patients stocked and it consumes a fulll work schedule and costs alot of money and that caregiver cant work because THIS IS HIS JOB. now do i have to file? you think you know something but your far from knowlegable on the subject.

what do you mean the spirit of the law? can you show me that in writing?

Well if you don't understand the spirit behind the law, ie to help people who legitimately need marijuana as medicine then I don't think I could explain it to you. The law was not intended for people to profit from growing mass quantities of pot and you know it. The spirit is different from the letter of the law.

There is also no way you are going to convince me that supplying 5 people with medicine will be a full time job, nor that the income from these 5 people will replace whatever job you are doing. Just because you can theoretically grow and supply X amount which translates to $X does not mean you have 5 patients that are going to pay exorbitant prices to literally supply your entirely yearly income. Any one patient that is going to supply a full fifth of your yearly income is stupid to not grow it themselves, or they have a lot of income they can dedicate to medicine. I've done the math. Just because I can grow $60,000 worth of medicine a year within the letter of the law doesn't mean I can legitimately have an income of $60,000 from my 5 patients.

If you are making that much money some product must be filtering to other patients or the black market. Once it goes to someone outside of your 5 patients I think the point is entirely moot as to whether you need to file as you are already doing something inherently illegal.

I think the limit was set as it is specifically for these reasons.

Though I do agree once you are supplying 5 patients the time/effort involved and the potential legal compensation could push you into a grey area where uncle sam wants his cut.

Am I the only one that wouldn't pay taxes on it regardless of how much I made? I mean fuck the government. It's a cash business. No paper trail. I wouldn't file on principal alone. Or if I had to file I would cook the books so I just made enough to pay the expenses with no taxable income.

 

[wyteberrywidow]

Well if you don't understand the spirit behind the law, ie to help people who legitimately need marijuana as medicine then I don't think I could explain it to you. The law was not intended for people to profit from growing mass quantities of pot and you know it. The spirit is different from the letter of the law.

There is also no way you are going to convince me that supplying 5 people with medicine will be a full time job, nor that the income from these 5 people will replace whatever job you are doing. Just because you can theoretically grow and supply X amount which translates to $X does not mean you have 5 patients that are going to pay exorbitant prices to literally supply your entirely yearly income. Any one patient that is going to supply a full fifth of your yearly income is stupid to not grow it themselves, or they have a lot of income they can dedicate to medicine. I've done the math. Just because I can grow $60,000 worth of medicine a year within the letter of the law doesn't mean I can legitimately have an income of $60,000 from my 5 patients.

If you are making that much money some product must be filtering to other patients or the black market. Once it goes to someone outside of your 5 patients I think the point is entirely moot as to whether you need to file as you are already doing something inherently illegal.

I think the limit was set as it is specifically for these reasons.

Though I do agree once you are supplying 5 patients the time/effort involved and the potential legal compensation could push you into a grey area where uncle sam wants his cut.

Am I the only one that wouldn't pay taxes on it regardless of how much I made? I mean fuck the government. It's a cash business. No paper trail. I wouldn't file on principal alone. Or if I had to file I would cook the books so I just made enough to pay the expenses with no taxable income.

Basically you hit it on the head.

 

[rzza]

ok so your telling me a bunch of opinions, and no offense but your opinion means nothing more to me or any other caregiver or the community, than your thoughts. its simply YOUR opinion. you dont think that 5 patients should line my pockets and pay my bills but think about it, five patients and each buy at least an ounce every two weeks. thats ten ounces and over $2000 a month, thats not a job? not to mention ACTUAL patients who use it for nausea and cramping etc .. they use more like an ounce per week or more. i can tell you want to know something but your having a hard time giving out facts. so you have an opinion, thats fine but dont act like its factual ....spirit of the law ...not intended to make money blah blah...

now lets talk about the work....im sure a caregiver could run the business and not put in a full 40 hours per week but i personally dont. i have logged already since sunday 13 hours and im on my way there now, its only tuesday. at the rate this is going i cannot get myself back into a full work week.
every two weeks i will harvest x amount of plants and those plants will keep me working full time days just trimming and packaging. dont forget cutting new clones and mixing more soil to replace the ones i just chopped. trust me its way too much work to maintain five patients properly and work at the same time.
you keep mentioning its not INTENDED to make money but i think thats wrong also. you heard that from someone and your repeating it. if the law was written so cg didnt make money and it wasnt their job then we would be allowed one patient plus ourself, thats my opinion.

on another note, i need to make sure to have meds for my patients whenever they want it. that means i shsould carry an abundance, more than what is expected. at the same time, if they dont buy it all i need to get rid of it somehow or else when my next crop comes its possible im over on my limits. i have different options at this point and no destroying it isnt one of my options. i will usually donate it to a compassion club or patient, which should be claimed.

i also spend alot of time making baked good, tinctures and hash so thats even more time out of my schedule.

 

[rzza]

Well if you don't understand the spirit behind the law, ie to help people who legitimately need marijuana as medicine then I don't think I could explain it to you. The law was not intended for people to profit from growing mass quantities of pot and you know it. The spirit is different from the letter of the law.-all opinion
There is also no way you are going to convince me that supplying 5 people with medicine will be a full time job, nor that the income from these 5 people will replace whatever job you are doing. Just because you can theoretically grow and supply X amount which translates to $X does not mean you have 5 patients that are going to pay exorbitant prices to literally supply your entirely yearly income. Any one patient that is going to supply a full fifth of your yearly income is stupid to not grow it themselves, or they have a lot of income they can dedicate to medicine. I've done the math. Just because I can grow $60,000 worth of medicine a year within the letter of the law doesn't mean I can legitimately have an income of $60,000 from my 5 patients.-no facts here either

If you are making that much money some product must be filtering to other patients or the black market. Once it goes to someone outside of your 5 patients I think the point is entirely moot as to whether you need to file as you are already doing something inherently illegal. ^^^ opinion again

I think the limit was set as it is specifically for these reasons.
^^opinion
Though I do agree once you are supplying 5 patients the time/effort involved and the potential legal compensation could push you into a grey area where uncle sam wants his cut.-completely contradicts your second paragraph

Am I the only one that wouldn't pay taxes on it regardless of how much I made? yes.
I mean fuck the government. It's a cash business. No paper trail. I wouldn't file on principal alone. Or if I had to file I would cook the books so I just made enough to pay the expenses with no taxable income.

im sure this is coming across as rude and i meant every ounce of it. people need to stop giving out opinions and hearsay because when its read its repeated and before ya know it the whole community is misinformed.

 

[Stoner Smurf]

im sure this is coming across as rude and i meant every ounce of it. people need to stop giving out opinions and hearsay because when its read its repeated and before ya know it the whole community is misinformed.

Well you obviously never read the law... Because if you did you wouldn't have missed the huge section about the spirit of the law. This is the section where it talks about how all the work we do is suppose to be charity. You can set up your new grow under your bunk at the homeless shelter.

And don't you know, medicine is suppose to be a non-profit business anyway. If someone has a legitimate need for any medication it is the duty of the provider of the medication to provide it for free. I guess you didn't get the memo, oh well Pfizer didn't either...
*end sarcasm*

 

[rzza]

Well you obviously never read the law... Because if you did you wouldn't have missed the huge section about the spirit of the law. This is the section where it talks about how all the work we do is suppose to be charity. You can set up your new grow under your bunk at the homeless shelter.

And don't you know, medicine is suppose to be a non-profit business anyway. If someone has a legitimate need for any medication it is the duty of the provider of the medication to provide it for free. I guess you didn't get the memo, oh well Pfizer didn't either...
*end sarcasm*

lol for a minute there i was gonna be like .....WTF?

 

[guy incognito]

As a registered voter who signed the petition to get it on the ballot, and also voted for it, I would say my opinion does in fact matter in what "the spirit of the law" really is. I do live under a rock and never talk to other people though, so perhaps I am alone in my perspective, though I highly doubt. Any opinion you have on what the intent and/or spirit of law is is also just that - an opinion.

I suppose you could theoretically sell 2.5 ounces to each of 5 patients, totaling 12.5 ounces @ $300/oz for a total of $3,750. If they each smoke all their medicine every day you could make that sale every single day assuming you could keep up with the supply. That would net you a cool $1.4M. This works great on paper, until you realize that $1.4M income means $1.4M expense for your 5 patients, which is most likely going to be your limiting factor on income which is overlooked every time I see someone claim how much money they can make. You can only make as much as your patients are able and willing to spend. If each patient only has $2000 a year they can possibly spend on medicine then you cannot make anymore than that without doing something illegal. And yes I realize you could find patients with deep pockets, so it's possible, I just think its not really in the spirit of the law. Yes that's my OPINION, and if you disagree that's your OPINION.

And I don't think I contradict myself. MY example was making $60,000 a year selling pot which I think is unfeasible to do even in the letter of the law for the reasons i've already stated. I do think that there is some income level below the unrealistic $60,000, yet more than $0, that would land in some grey area. Hence why I said what I said.

And also go fuck yourself.

 

[rowlman]

. That would net you a cool $1.4M. ? thats alot of meds

 

[rzza]

you just stay under your rock with the bs.

why are you stuck on 2.5 oz? i assume an oz per patient per week [or two weeks] just like ive stated previously. that calculates to 10 to 20 ounces per month.

regardless, i shouldnt be argueing either side. like i said im not quite at that point et where ive actually looked in to it. its just my opinion that it should be concidered.

 

[guy incognito]

you just stay under your rock with the bs.

why are you stuck on 2.5 oz? i assume an oz per patient per week [or two weeks] just like ive stated previously. that calculates to 10 to 20 ounces per month.

regardless, i shouldnt be argueing either side. like i said im not quite at that point et where ive actually looked in to it. its just my opinion that it should be concidered.

MICHIGAN MEDICAL MARIHUANA ACT (EXCERPT)
Initiated Law 1 of 2008

333.26424 Qualifying patient or primary caregiver; arrest, prosecution, or penalty prohibited; conditions; presumption; compensation; physician subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty prohibited; marihuana paraphernalia; person in presence or vicinity to medical use of marihuana; registry identification issued outside of department; sale of marihuana as felony; penalty.

4. Protections for the Medical Use of Marihuana. 4. Protections for the Medical Use of Marihuana.
Sec. 4. (a) A qualifying patient who has been issued and possesses a registry identification card shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, for the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act, provided that the qualifying patient possesses an amount of marihuana that does not exceed 2.5 ounces of usable marihuana, and, if the qualifying patient has not specified that a primary caregiver will be allowed under state law to cultivate marihuana for the qualifying patient, 12 marihuana plants kept in an enclosed, locked facility. Any incidental amount of seeds, stalks, and unusable roots shall also be allowed under state law and shall not be included in this amount.
(b) A primary caregiver who has been issued and possesses a registry identification card shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, for assisting a qualifying patient to whom he or she is connected through the department's registration process with the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act, provided that the primary caregiver possesses an amount of marihuana that does not exceed:
(1) 2.5 ounces of usable marihuana for each qualifying patient to whom he or she is connected through the department's registration process; and
(2) for each registered qualifying patient who has specified that the primary caregiver will be allowed under state law to cultivate marihuana for the qualifying patient, 12 marihuana plants kept in an enclosed, locked facility; and
(3) any incidental amount of seeds, stalks, and unusable roots.
(c) A person shall not be denied custody or visitation of a minor for acting in accordance with this act, unless the person's behavior is such that it creates an unreasonable danger to the minor that can be clearly articulated and substantiated.
(d) There shall be a presumption that a qualifying patient or primary caregiver is engaged in the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act if the qualifying patient or primary caregiver:
(1) is in possession of a registry identification card; and
(2) is in possession of an amount of marihuana that does not exceed the amount allowed under this act. The presumption may be rebutted by evidence that conduct related to marihuana was not for the purpose of alleviating the qualifying patient's debilitating medical condition or symptoms associated with the debilitating medical condition, in accordance with this act.
(e) A registered primary caregiver may receive compensation for costs associated with assisting a registered qualifying patient in the medical use of marihuana. Any such compensation shall not constitute the sale of controlled substances.
(f) A physician shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by the Michigan board of medicine, the Michigan board of osteopathic medicine and surgery, or any other business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, solely for providing written certifications, in the course of a bona fide physician-patient relationship and after the physician has completed a full assessment of the qualifying patient's medical history, or for otherwise stating that, in the physician's professional opinion, a patient is likely to receive therapeutic or palliative benefit from the medical use of marihuana to treat or alleviate the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition or symptoms associated with the serious or debilitating medical condition, provided that nothing shall prevent a professional licensing board from sanctioning a physician for failing to properly evaluate a patient's medical condition or otherwise violating the standard of care for evaluating medical conditions.
(g) A person shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, for providing a registered qualifying patient or a registered primary caregiver with marihuana paraphernalia for purposes of a qualifying patient's medical use of marihuana.
(h) Any marihuana, marihuana paraphernalia, or licit property that is possessed, owned, or used in connection with the medical use of marihuana, as allowed under this act, or acts incidental to such use, shall not be seized or forfeited.
(i) A person shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, solely for being in the presence or vicinity of the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act, or for assisting a registered qualifying patient with using or administering marihuana.
(j) A registry identification card, or its equivalent, that is issued under the laws of another state, district, territory, commonwealth, or insular possession of the United States that allows the medical use of marihuana by a visiting qualifying patient, or to allow a person to assist with a visiting qualifying patient's medical use of marihuana, shall have the same force and effect as a registry identification card issued by the department.
(k) Any registered qualifying patient or registered primary caregiver who sells marihuana to someone who is not allowed to use marihuana for medical purposes under this act shall have his or her registry identification card revoked and is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 2 years or a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or both, in addition to any other penalties for the distribution of marihuana.

They can legally have 2.5 oz, and you can legally have 2.5 for them. Theoretically you could sell them the max every day.

I'm done getting worked up on the internet. I just blazed and am nice and chill. You should do the same. Peace out dude.

 

[cmt1984]

but i would like to have some stored in a vase for a later date. like storing seeds. so im not trying to grow it. their just sitting in water, in the veg room. ive always done this and they always root for me like a month later....

throw a few cuttings in a zip lock baggie and put it in the crisper drawer in your fridge...they'll stay good for a couple months.

 

[Kruzty]

Now that wouldn't be counted untill ya put them to soil or cube or what have ya. May count to your 2.5 zips but may not as it's just stems and such. I just stay under count so I dont have to worry. I can get enough to supply all our patients with about have the plant count, so have plenty of room for babies.

Sprite of the law..

Still laughing at that one.. Lord another " give me free meds" person.

Sprite of the law.

Yeah,,,, please..........

True statement from someone that has no clue on growing med grade mj..
Whats wrong with sick folks making a living off growing if thier still able to do that ????
Most will make a dam good living of this and well should... They'll make more then you will working at some shit ass job thats for sure... AND THEY WELL SHOULD.........................

 

[rzza]

They can legally have 2.5 oz, and you can legally have 2.5 for them. Theoretically you could sell them the max every day.

I'm done getting worked up on the internet. I just blazed and am nice and chill. You should do the same. Peace out dude.

i see, its still a number we can forget about. a patient is allowed 2.5 at any one time but obviously their not gonna buy that much at a time. so yea about an ounce a week each, five patients ....20 ounces a month.

 

[guy incognito]

Now that wouldn't be counted untill ya put them to soil or cube or what have ya. May count to your 2.5 zips but may not as it's just stems and such. I just stay under count so I dont have to worry. I can get enough to supply all our patients with about have the plant count, so have plenty of room for babies.

Sprite of the law..

Still laughing at that one.. Lord another " give me free meds" person.

Sprite of the law.

Yeah,,,, please..........

True statement from someone that has no clue on growing med grade mj..
Whats wrong with sick folks making a living off growing if thier still able to do that ????
Most will make a dam good living of this and well should... They'll make more then you will working at some shit ass job thats for sure... AND THEY WELL SHOULD.........................

Before I respond to anything please quote me where I said people should have free meds.

 

[Kruzty]

You didn't say free,, just we've been dealing with folks bitchin and wanting free meds for close to 2 years now so thats way I put it in there. Follows the same pattern as your post and most times goes the free weed way. When ya start talking about the sprite of the law like we should be doing this for free for folks. Well that just aint gonna happen when ya spend about 80 hrs a week making shit come out right.
Most times the ones bitchin have NO clue on what it takes to do this shit and no clue on what it costs to set-up a room.

 

[guy incognito]

I have a grow room set up and have been putting my time in on it for about 8 months now. Got a couple harvests, but they were not very good. I'm sure I have been putting in just as much time as someone who does it right, I just don't have the fine tuning (or anything besides bagseed strains) yet to get the same quality product.

I am doing it for completely selfish reasons though, because I want to smoke it. I will have no problem setting up for other people, and perhaps my view is slightly skewed because I will be putting in a whole lot of base time and effort for myself initially, so the effort to go from 12 plants to 24 plants is not really doubling my costs or my time. Each new plant added just makes the entire process that much more efficient.

I don't think people should get free meds, but I would also have a hard time charging a terminally ill or very sick person who legitimately needs the medicine full market value when I know it does not cost quite that much to produce, especially once you take risk out of the equation entirely.

 

[rzza]

I have a grow room set up and have been putting my time in on it for about 8 months now. Got a couple harvests, but they were not very good. I'm sure I have been putting in just as much time as someone who does it right, I just don't have the fine tuning (or anything besides bagseed strains) yet to get the same quality product.

I am doing it for completely selfish reasons though, because I want to smoke it. I will have no problem setting up for other people, and perhaps my view is slightly skewed because I will be putting in a whole lot of base time and effort for myself initially, so the effort to go from 12 plants to 24 plants is not really doubling my costs or my time. Each new plant added just makes the entire process that much more efficient.

I don't think people should get free meds, but I would also have a hard time charging a terminally ill or very sick person who legitimately needs the medicine full market value when I know it does not cost quite that much to produce, especially once you take risk out of the equation entirely.

bro your all over the place....

go through this thread and read your posts.


12 to 24 plants wont double your cost or time? the fuck? how does that work?


every time you do something in your garden you will spend double the time and price.

you know those little (i think one quart) nute containers? i can use one of those in two feedings.

so not including your initial cost and "base time" invested heres what you need to double.....

pots/containers
soil, if you go that route
water, some buy theirs
lights (initial but not the monthly fee)
nutes (rediculous prices)


watering twelve plants can take someone 30 minutes already. my whole point is if you doubled to 24 plants your going to take twice as much time to water and when your nuteing you spend twice as much money.

what i think your not understanding is perpetual systems always have something going on. harvest, cure, dry, clone, transplant, water, electrical problems, feed,mix soil, filters, heat problems, mold, algaes, composting etc etc....

it truly is a daily thing. i just work a couple hours at a time a few times a day and in between im often right here on RIU

 

[guy incognito]

bro your all over the place....

go through this thread and read your posts.


12 to 24 plants wont double your cost or time? the fuck? how does that work?


every time you do something in your garden you will spend double the time and price.

you know those little (i think one quart) nute containers? i can use one of those in two feedings.

so not including your initial cost and "base time" invested heres what you need to double.....

pots/containers
soil, if you go that route
water, some buy theirs
lights (initial but not the monthly fee)
nutes (rediculous prices)


watering twelve plants can take someone 30 minutes already. my whole point is if you doubled to 24 plants your going to take twice as much time to water and when your nuteing you spend twice as much money.

what i think your not understanding is perpetual systems always have something going on. harvest, cure, dry, clone, transplant, water, electrical problems, feed,mix soil, filters, heat problems, mold, algaes, composting etc etc....

it truly is a daily thing. i just work a couple hours at a time a few times a day and in between im often right here on RIU

Well I disagree. Everything you listed will in fact double because you are using twice as much. Unless you get discounts by buying larger amounts of it, or more of it at one time.

Things that won't double proportionally are the time you spent learning everything you know that relates to this, and I know it's a lot because im still in the process of learning. Starting entirely from scratch in a new location would be infinitely easier for me based on this alone.

Other things that don't scale up proportionally: mixing soil, mixing nutes, buying supplies.

It will not take twice the time or twice the hassel to mix your soil in a larger container for more plants. It will take more time, but on a time/plant basis you will be more efficient.

Same goes for mixing nutes.

Same goes for purchasing that stuff from the store. What will take more time, purchasing enough soil and nutes for 100 plants, or purchasing soil for 1 plant? Obviously buying for 100 plants, but will it take 100 times as much time? Not even close.

That is where you are saving time and money. It is almost always cheaper and more efficient to do things on a larger scale.

 

[guy incognito]

I'm not here to argue either. My time will be better spent researching other portions of the forum. I wish you the best on your grows. Good luck and peace out.

 

[rzza]

goodbye and goodluck ....numbskull