Red Dragon & Magic Bud - First CFL grow using "Buds for Less" light set-up

[Grumpy Old Dreamer]

Steve ... you see the "Old" part of my name ... I first grew in soil about 30 years ago and have never tried anything else. Soil is great as it forgives a lot of minor mistakes.
As for cloning, I have never had a failure in ... well, forever ... never killed a clone, must have a green thumb.
Also, I have an extreme stealth set up that I don't think will work too well with hydro - my son never noticed the grow set-up in 17 years and when I finally showed it to him he was .... WTF!!!!!

 

[steve6green]

Steve ... you see the "Old" part of my name ... I first grew in soil about 30 years ago and have never tried anything else. Soil is great as it forgives a lot of minor mistakes.
As for cloning, I have never had a failure in ... well, forever ... never killed a clone, must have a green thumb.
Also, I have an extreme stealth set up that I don't think will work too well with hydro - my son never noticed the grow set-up in 17 years and when I finally showed it to him he was .... WTF!!!!!

Im out of water in hydro ive had great success in outdoor but have had two failures (male plants) indoors and am trying to buck the trend. 17 years of stealth is hardcore the less people who know about it the better but thats mad i think we need to see details on this super sly setup

 

[billcollector99]

G.O.D. im suprised your growing in soil ive recently became a fan of the concept of DWC the only consumable other than power is nutrient and when i make my aeroponics cloner ive been told it has 100% strike rate and i believe i can make both systems for under $200

It is possible to make a 25 site aero cloner for under $50 With a 100% success rate on cloning

 

[Grumpy Old Dreamer]

It is possible to make a 25 site aero cloner for under $50 With a 100% success rate on cloning

But as I only flower one (soon to be 2) plants at once, I really can't see the need for a 25 site cloner. I just stick them in Jiffy pellets, wish them luck and watch them grow.

 

[Grumpy Old Dreamer]

17 years of stealth is hardcore the less people who know about it the better but thats mad i think we need to see details on this super sly setup

The grow chambers have been idle for the last 5 years while I stopped growing/stopped smoking ... I did this to finally and conclusively kick my nicotine addiction.

I built the hidden chamber (that I enter and close behind me) when my kids were very small and they paid no attention, they have since grown up in the house and never found it becaus ethey have never had cause to look for it.
The total enclosed space is maybe 4 foot x 6 foot and it is well "hidden".

 

[Grumpy Old Dreamer]

I haven't updated for a while as there is not a lot to report.
The plant doesn't look a lot bigger as it is growing with very short internodes (3/4 inch or less).
I raised the LED to reduce the light intensity but it still grows compact.
My lights have just come back on and I have killed the LED and put four 24w CFLs around the pot as side lighting (no overhead light at all) - hoprfully this will make the plant reach for the light a little and space those nodes.
This is the 7th day under the screen and I plan on switching to 12/12 in another 7 days and want a bit more spread befor the serious stretching happens.
I will take a pikkie before lights out tonight and post it.

 

[rastadred22]

nice! i had the same problem but mine was due to the cfls being to close...i had to raise them from like 3inches away to about a foot away and i waited for them to get about an inch or 2 away then i moved the light with the plant

 

[Grumpy Old Dreamer]

If these LEDs are making it grow with short internodes, I think the lights are better than I imagined.

Future grows will be grown and LTS'd a lot more before putting them under the screen and hitting them with the LED, this first grow is just me being impatient and rushing it.

 

[Serapis]

If these LEDs are making it grow with short internodes, I think the lights are better than I imagined.

Future grows will be grown and LTS'd a lot more before putting them under the screen and hitting them with the LED, this first grow is just me being impatient and rushing it.

It is the LED light that keeps the nodes tight. The nodes do stretch out once you enter flower. That was my experience with indica, Bubblelicious. I saw some of those Kessel (is that right spelling?) LEDs today for a very pretty penny. They were far from cheap. Looks like great optic and LED engineering. Can't wait to see your screen cola up. I ordered 2 waterfarms today... I love soil, so I have mixed feelings, but after watching how fast plants veg and take off in them, I had to try them. $59 with shipping on eBay for the complete set up.

 

[Grumpy Old Dreamer]

It is the LED light that keeps the nodes tight. The nodes do stretch out once you enter flower. That was my experience with indica, Bubblelicious. I saw some of those Kessel (is that right spelling?) LEDs today for a very pretty penny. They were far from cheap. Looks like great optic and LED engineering. Can't wait to see your screen cola up. I ordered 2 waterfarms today... I love soil, so I have mixed feelings, but after watching how fast plants veg and take off in them, I had to try them. $59 with shipping on eBay for the complete set up.

I figured it was the LED causing the short internodes - thats why I've turned it off for the next week, if I don't get some spacing happening my colas are going to be far too many in a very small area.
The plant is only covering about an 8 inch circle of the 2 foot diameter screen so far, about 1/8 th of the screen area. I'll be happy to switch to 12/12 when the area covered is about a 12 inch circle which is only another 2 inches growth in each direction. Then the plant can happily stretch to the edge of the screen where it will be stopped to encourage the side branches to fill the screen.

The problem with this first grow is it's all about waiting for things to happen, once I get the second Kessil and run a dual flowering set-up, things will be happening all the time ... I'll be constantly germinating, training, feeding, harvesting, curing ... but it will be a few months before a full routine gets established.

I love this hobby.

... and as with most hobbies, you have to spend money - that's why I haven't worried too much about the cost of the Kessil lights (I've pumped a lot more into other hobbies). I like the journey as much as the destination, the buds at the end will obviously be the big reward but the hobby is very rewarding to a gardener like myself.

As I like doing things a little different, and I like the concept of the Kessil lights and no one else seems to be showing grows with them, I figured that I'd try what others don't, can't or won't do.
It's not always about the biggest yield of the fattest buds - or the "my dick is bigger than yours" mentality that seems very common.
Some of us (yourself included) have to lead the way so that others may one day follow.

I'll have to look into the "waterfarms", but I also love soil so I doubt that I would switch.

 

[Grumpy Old Dreamer]

20th October 2010 (Day 42 from seed packet)

Here is the photo just taken, it has had a day without the LED and I think that it looks like it is starting to want more light - another week and I will switch to 12/12 and hopefully it will stretch to fill the screen.

I have reposted the photo from 7 days ago for comparison ... it has definitely grown but it has seriously short internodes ... and lots of pre-flowers.



All 8 clones are surviving in their 42mm dia Jiffy Pellets, none have shown any roots emerging through the pellet wall yet.

One Magic Bud seed sprouted yesterday and the other is visible just about to sprout, hopefully they live longer than the first.

 

[rastadred22]

damn she def is growing though man... she gone be filling that screen in no time!

 

[Serapis]

I've been looking forward to a scrog grow myself, but I realized it's not going to happen with LED lights solely. The is a good response in my old LED thread from someone that explained the spectrums for stretch and side branch growth, that LEDs don't hit well on in penetration to the lower growth. I suspect if you were to add a few CFLs of the 6500k color, in reflector dishes, that you would see a remarkable improvement.

I can say that I saw no real stretching under LED's UNTIL I went 12/12. Then the suckers took off. Keepin my eye on the grow.... looking good. I'm hopeful you can pull a HP or more with those intense lights and scrog.

 

[daviaces]

serapis what do you mean scrog grow its not going to happen with led solely?
i thought led lights are most suited to scrog grow
have u seen verdant greens led scrog grows?

 

[daviaces]

good luck with the grow grumpy

 

[Grumpy Old Dreamer]

I've been looking forward to a scrog grow myself, but I realized it's not going to happen with LED lights solely. The is a good response in my old LED thread from someone that explained the spectrums for stretch and side branch growth, that LEDs don't hit well on in penetration to the lower growth. I suspect if you were to add a few CFLs of the 6500k color, in reflector dishes, that you would see a remarkable improvement.

I can say that I saw no real stretching under LED's UNTIL I went 12/12. Then the suckers took off. Keepin my eye on the grow.... looking good. I'm hopeful you can pull a HP or more with those intense lights and scrog.

The screen is only 2 foot diameter, I'll be happy with an ounce or two ... but I am more than willing to be surprised.

This particular Kessil H150 light is the Magenta version that is calibrated for the flowering phase - my impatience is why I started using it before I had finished vegging.
If I carried on using the Kessil to fill the screen, I have a feeling that it would eventually get there but I would be faced with 100+ colas to deal with, now I don't want that to happen do I.
When I check the plant later I expect to see a bit more growth, again it is just my impatience ... I want that screen filled so I can move on to the flowering phase.
In a few months time I will have two plants with staggered flowering periods, seedlings, clones, seed production ... I won't have time to be impatient, but at the moment I need things to get a move on.

 

[Serapis]

serapis what do you mean scrog grow its not going to happen with led solely?
i thought led lights are most suited to scrog grow
have u seen verdant greens led scrog grows?

The problem with using standard LEDs to scrog grow is the lack of penetrating power to the lower parts of the plant. When we scrog, we like to encourage plants to get bushy, to produce many branches. While an LED is great for a completed screen, it lacks the penetration needed to encourage the new lower branching. This is what was explained to me, and what I have found out from my own LED grow. The LEDs promote tight nodes, which is good, but it sure takes a long time to get the growth out of the plants. That's why I believe GOD will end up flipping 12/12 before he wants to. Once my plants hit 12/12 under LED, they went nuts and started stretching very fast.

I think the trick to this scrog is to get the screen about 2/3 full then flip 12/12. The first week in 12/12 will be more than enough to fill that screen. That is my thinking anyways. I like grows like this, because it's like a science experiment. I have spent over $800 myself on LED lighting, so I'm convinced it works, it just has some strange effects on the plants. Anyone who grows under LED needs to add some other type of light in the room, or eventually you'll go stark raving mad staring at purple leaves. It does make spotting defficiencies a bit harder, so toss in a couple of CFL lights if you are like minded.

I think these new lights are going to impress the hell out of people. From the pic GOD provided, that light is intense as hell. I thought mine were bright.... lol...

 

[Grumpy Old Dreamer]

It's definitely like a science experiment, certainly not just about growing as much bud as possible ... because I honestly don't know what my results are going to be. I have searched the net and can't find anyone who has reported how the Kessil lights go at producing buds.
You certainly don't want to mess around with LEDs if you don't want to spend money - cheap LEDs are everywhere and THEY are what are giving LEDs a bad name for bud growing.
I'd like to "Fast forward" a couple of years to see how LEDs develop - from a horticultural perspective they are just starting to be developed correctly.

My future grows will probably have some CFLs for side lighting to illuminate the edge of the scrog, but once I flip to 12/12 with this first grow, I will be using just the single Kessil H150 light ... quite simply, I want to see what can be achieved with such a low wattage high intensity LED. (it's that science experiment mentality again)

 

[daviaces]

The problem with using standard LEDs to scrog grow is the lack of penetrating power to the lower parts of the plant. When we scrog, we like to encourage plants to get bushy, to produce many branches. While an LED is great for a completed screen, it lacks the penetration needed to encourage the new lower branching. This is what was explained to me, and what I have found out from my own LED grow. The LEDs promote tight nodes, which is good, but it sure takes a long time to get the growth out of the plants.

im just about to set up a new ledgrow and this comment is not what i wanted to hear
was planning led only scrog grow as i have seen some very good results with this method are you sure about this statement ,kinda putting me off my new set up idea

 

[Grumpy Old Dreamer]

I've seen some pretty good results with LEDs also, but filling a scrog screen using just LED lights does take a long time.

I had always intended to veg under CFLs and flower with the LEDs, it was just that I was impatient and wanted to see the LEDs in action.

On another note, the first of my clones has punched 3 roots through the edge of the Jiffy Pellet, I'm assuming that the others are close behind. As a reward for their hard work producing roots so fast, I have dunked each pellet in a 1/4 strength nute soultion and will probably pot them up in a day or so. Once they have a couple of weeks growth under their belts I will start playing with the Colloidal Silver.