Haha, it's hard to get away from the LED bashers. Most people base their experience on early models which did crap for the flowering stage. I purchased a Pro-Grow 250, from a company called HydroponicsHut.com. It's pretty cool, because it has two settings, one for veg and another for flowering. This lets you use, just the wattage that you need by not having to run both spectrums. They too, offer a 90 day money-back guarantee, which was the deal breaker. They use CREE LED's, which from what i've been reading, seem to be the best and brightest. I looked at the Supernova as well, but i think they use the weaker Bridgelux LED's that arent as bright; It also costs a pretty penny. Hydroponics Hut sells the PG250 on their site for $409.00... however, they always put one on ebay, and the bidding wars begin. I ended up paying $373.00 shipped on ebay. So this week i bid on another one since trying to start a separate tent for my veg phase, that auction ended at $347 shipped.What LED are you using and where did you get it, and what grow tent did you get? I've been shopping around for a good basic 2'x2' or 3'x2' grow tent that I can put in my walk-in closet, and I've found some really good quality deals between $75-$125, but I haven't decided on a light source yet. Sometimes I have people over that I don't really want to know that I'm growing, even though I'm completely legal, and with where they are currently the smell is hard to hide and there's a small chance someone might go in that room. I won't have to worry about any of that with a grow tent in my closet.
This is just a hobby for me with no profit, and I don't consume much, so I really don't want to invest a lot of money in expensive equipment or I'd buy one of the top of the line LEDs like the Supernova (preferably the enhanced spectrum). If I can find something that would do the job of a 250w HPS for around the same cost I'd be happy, don't even need a 400W or 600W equivalent for my small setup. Obviously there are 90W-120W LEDs out there ranging from $99 to $599 that all claim to work as well as 400 or 600W HPS's, but you just won't REALLY know what you're getting until you try it out. I think almost all of the newer 90W UFOs and 120W LEDs will do a pretty good job in Veg., even the lower end ones, but only the quality ones will work for flowering. Problem is it's just not enough to know which spectrums an LED uses and exactly what peak points it hits, or even that they're 10mm diodes rather than 5mm, although those are good starting points.
I'd like to only spend around $200 for a decent LED and if I could spend less that would be great, but I'd spend a little more too if I knew it would work well for at least 2'x2' setup. At the moment I'm thinking about going with a 90w Illuminator UFO for $299 since the company is extremely reputable and offers a full 90 day performance guarantee. If you're not satisfied with it after 90 days (which is plenty of time for a complete Auto grow), just send it back for a full refund. I havent' seen any other company personally that offers that kind of guarantee, so I can't help but think their products must really work and I have nothing to lose except my time, effort, and seeds. If it wasn't doing the job I could always my CFLs to finish or supplement the grow, heaven knows I have plenty of them.
I welcome feedback and personal experiences with LEDs that anybody has. Please no LED bashing based on second hand information or things you've read. I've already done plenty of reading and research, and I'm well aware that a lot of the LEDs out there don't perform nearly as well as they claim, and most people dismiss them. I'll post it here when I decide what tent and light setup I go with. I'm still 1-2 weeks away from harvest so I have a little time left to decide.
Cool, thanks for all the info. I'm definitely going to check out the LED you're using, and could you hook me up with a link to their store on e-Bay, or to a current auction for one of those LEDs if there is one? If I could pick one up for $350 and if it has a 90 performance guarantee like you said, I'd definitely go with one of those rather than pay $299 for a 90W UFO that has the same guarantee. I just looked at their site and I also see that they have a 140W version for $249, which is supposed to be 100% equal to a 300W HID guaranteed, and would easily cover a 2'x2' or 2'x3' grow tent, so maybe I'll go with that. Do you know if they sell that model on e-Bay too occasionally?Haha, it's hard to get away from the LED bashers. Most people base their experience on early models which did crap for the flowering stage. I purchased a Pro-Grow 250, from a company called HydroponicsHut.com. It's pretty cool, because it has two settings, one for veg and another for flowering. This lets you use, just the wattage that you need by not having to run both spectrums. They too, offer a 90 day money-back guarantee, which was the deal breaker. They use CREE LED's, which from what i've been reading, seem to be the best and brightest. I looked at the Supernova as well, but i think they use the weaker Bridgelux LED's that arent as bright; It also costs a pretty penny. Hydroponics Hut sells the PG250 on their site for $409.00... however, they always put one on ebay, and the bidding wars begin. I ended up paying $373.00 shipped on ebay. So this week i bid on another one since trying to start a separate tent for my veg phase, that auction ended at $347 shipped.
So I removed my 2 ER's from the cabinet and they've been under in the tent and under the LEDs for 24 hours now. From what i can smell, they seem to be just happy I got a 2x3x5 tent from Amazon for $90 shipped! Can't beat that. Trust me, if you have the closet space, it's def worth the small investment. I think even with cfl's, this tent can keep cooler than a box, since it has more vertical room for the heat to rise. Additionally, i bought a Carbon scrubber, and small inline fan, and a muffler that makes it 25 dB more quiet. i havent really been using it, since my temps and smell rent all that strong. In total, i spent about $650. But the lower temps are def worth it. My grow is also for fun, as i dont plan to sell. Hopefully this investment will provide for me in the long run.
Your girls are looking great. I'm checking daily (sometimes multiple times a day), to see your progress.
Thanks for coming back and posting here, I forgot to check back in on your thread and see if you answered. You sound right on the money with how mine are looking and when I think they'll be ready. As you described, my two smaller pheno ERs are just completely coated in crystals and have been for weeks, which led me to believe they were going to be done sooner than things turned out. The smaller ERs are also a different color overall, more of a pale green as opposed to the larger phenos which are brighter green. Like yours, the leaves are very tight, thick, and stiff, totally different than the large pheno ERs. I'm not thrilled to hear that my yield is going to suffer quite a bit because of that, but I can't imagine pulling less than half an OZ off of each of my smaller ERs, which would be ok with me. I think some of them will yield more than that, but time will tell.You asked in my ER thread about how long mine went, but since it's dead I'd figured I answer you back here. I picked two at around 9 weeks and the 3rd around 10 weeks. Looks like Sarah and Tiffany are the "short" minty pheno and Jennifer is the "tall" fruity pheno. Two of mine were the "tall" pheno so I guess I lucked out because I liked that one much better. The short one was completely white with crystals by the time I picked it, but it was really leafy. The leaves are really thick too so There wasn't as much left as what it looked like it would be after I got done trimming.
Here's a link to an auction that ends soon: http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-2010-model-250w-HO-Cree-LED-7-Band-Grow-Light-UFO-/280577378832?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4153b70a10 . It's at $116, but it will surely end up in the $300-350 range.Cool, thanks for all the info. I'm definitely going to check out the LED you're using, and could you hook me up with a link to their store on e-Bay, or to a current auction for one of those LEDs if there is one? If I could pick one up for $350 and if it has a 90 performance guarantee like you said, I'd definitely go with one of those rather than pay $299 for a 90W UFO that has the same guarantee. I think the tent you got might be the same one I have on my short list that I'm considering. It's $90 on Amazon, same as yours ($75 plus $15 for shipping), but it's 3' by 20" by 5'2", which is very close to what you said but not exactly. Is this the one you got, or is it just really close? If I could get 3' by 2' by 5' for the same price I'd prefer it, but the one I found would be fine. I just need enough room for at least 4 3-gallon pots, and 6 would be even better.
Thanks for the eBay link, I'll definitely follow that auction and see if I can snipe that one for under $350. I'm also going to see if I can find their 140W version on eBay too, if so maybe I can pick that one up for closer to $200 since they sell it for $249 retail. Looks like it's the exact same LED as yours, just a lower total wattage (fewer LEDs assumably). Well that's cool that you got the same tent that was at the top of my list. I was a little nervous about picking up such a cheap tent, but it sounds like you're happy with it. Any complaints at all with it so far?Here's a link to an auction that ends soon: http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-2010-model-250w-HO-Cree-LED-7-Band-Grow-Light-UFO-/280577378832?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4153b70a10 . It's at $116, but it will surely end up in the $300-350 range.
As for the tent: Yes, I did in fact get the 3'x20"x62". It was $75 + $15 for shipping. I know there's one on ebay that gives the extra 2" of depth. Oddly, these extra 2" could really make a difference, since there are some bad ass square pots on Amazon that measure 10."x10", and these would give a few extra inches b/w pots. Luckly i bought some 9x9 pots and they fit nicely (tight, but it works). They say these 9x9 are 3 gallons, but my brain doesn't see how this could be true; guess I just have to take their word.
Here's my current (temporary) setup. Please ignore the Carbon filter/inline/muffler as these will be hanging once i get some ideas on placement. Also, ignore the CO2 tank as this will be outside the tent as soon as i find a permanent place for the tent. ("please pardon our mess")
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As you can see, I have a seedling in there. Unfortutnatly, i couldn't fit it in my veg box, so I didn't have much choice. I guess it's kind of an experiment to see what the flowering spectrum will do to the seedling... here's my now dedicated, veg box. I can only fit 2 of these 10"x10" pots...
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LOL, yeah, I have been taking it a bit too serious. It's hard to not want to try and perfect every little controllable aspect. I've changed aspects of my design at least a dozen times. I have yet to see the the 140W LED on ebay. There's another vendor on ebay, Gotham Products, that puts out a good set of Lighthouse LEDs, that supposedly won a GrowBoys award (not familiar with GB, but that's my fault). They even have the "make an offer" option, which basically gives you free shipping.Thanks for the eBay link, I'll definitely follow that auction and see if I can snipe that one for under $350. I'm also going to see if I can find their 140W version on eBay too, if so maybe I can pick that one up for closer to $200 since they sell it for $249 retail. Looks like it's the exact same LED as yours, just a lower total wattage (fewer LEDs assumably). Well that's cool that you got the same tent that was at the top of my list. I was a little nervous about picking up such a cheap tent, but it sounds like you're happy with it. Any complaints at all with it so far?
BTW, really nice setups you have there, looks like you're taking this "hobby" pretty seriously lol. Curious to know how your LED does in Veg with your seedling in that tent. I plan on still using my current box for for Vegging my plants, whether I grow autos or photos. My next grow is definitely autos, but I think after that one I'm going to grow some of the great photo freebie seeds I've accumulated from my Attitude purchases.
Yeah, I checked after I wrote that last entry and they only have their 250W on eBay, at least currently. I would think they would put the 140W and 250W there at least, maybe not the 550W, since only people that are serious about growing are going to buy that one, and if they're serious they'll pay serious money. I think I'll hold out for a good deal on the 250W one on eBay rather than buying the 140W for $259 +S. $259 for a quality 140W with a 90 day guarantee is a good deal imo, but $350 for the equivalent 250W is a much better return on investment. Even if I buy a tent and get it set up very soon, I'm going to veg my next plants in my box anyway, so I definitely don't need the LED for at least a month. That gives me plenty of time to get one at the price I want on eBay, just let me know if you're going to be bidding on one so we don't run each other up lol.LOL, yeah, I have been taking it a bit too serious. It's hard to not want to try and perfect every little controllable aspect. I've changed aspects of my design at least a dozen times. I have yet to see the the 140W LED on ebay. There's another vendor on ebay, Gotham Products, that puts out a good set of Lighthouse LEDs, that supposedly won a GrowBoys award (not familiar with GB, but that's my fault). They even have the "make an offer" option, which basically gives you free shipping.
I don't have too many complaints of the tent, except that certain areas are hard to zip, such as the zippers that close the bottom. Also, the vents are in places that are a little inconvenient to me, but that's only because of where i placed the tent. However, that's all minor. Now that I have all this extra height, i'm considering some photo seeds next. Perhaps Super LEmon Haze. It seems to yeild a great deal of quality bud. So ill be going through Attitude for that, especially now that i know that Rollitup members get 10%, didn't know that last time. Can't wait to see your next grow. Hope you're able to journal it; I know this can be a very time consuming process. The main reason why I haven't jounaled myself. Good luck on you tent and LED hunt!
Thanks. Yeah, she's bounced back halfway decent considering she was frozen in time at about 2" tall for at least 2 weeks after suffering heat stroke. That was right when she should have started her explosive growth and flowering cycle, so she wound up just flowering without the growth, and this was the result. I love the look of her buds, it's a beautiful shade of green and orange, with sparkly crystals. Really wish she hadn't gotten so stunted, but I'm guessing she's going to produce around a 1/4, which will last a little while and be enough to tell me whether I'd want to grow her again. I'll take a look at her Trichs today and see how close she is.actually Amber is a pretty nice looking plant I think... everything is looking good, you lucky dog...9 weeks? 8 weeks? sigh. leave it to me to get the 85 day ryders
Thanks for stopping by. Are the fan leaves that are starting to turn a pale green, then yellow, the lowest and largest on the plant, or are they located elsewhere? Which leaves are suffering plays a big role in being able to determine the nature of the problem. When you see the fan leaves that stick straight out of each of the colas begin to turn yellow at the ends, that's a good indicator it's the natural process of depleting N from the leaves. At 48 days you're approaching the point where you should start to see that, depending on which pheno of ERs you have. My smaller pheno ERs started that process around day 50 give or take, but my larger pheno ERs haven't started that yet. That process doesn't really turn the leaves a pale green first though, at least not in the same manner that my other problem did.What's up had to come back to do a little research, haven't been by in awhile. I just checked in on my easyryder and was shocked to see some of my big fan leaves changing color. Starting to turn pale green. I remember you posted on my thread talking about this problem. Mine are on day 48. I planned to give all a feeding. Actually my easyryder hAnt been fed nutes in awhile. I skipped on the nutes because my small leaf tips on top are curling down and yellow. Still not sure what the prob is on that. I quit using the molasses on her also. One thing I haven't checked so far during my grow is the ph off my runoff water. Not sure how to raise or lower the ph in the soil during the middle of a grow. Gonna have to do some research on that. Maybe right now she is just drawing the nitrogen from her bigger leaves naturally? Anyway like I said earlier gonna pull them out of the cabinet tomorrow morning and feed and take some pics and post on my thread.
Yeah, CFLs are definitely way cooler than incandescents, but they still put off a fair amount of heat when you're talking about having several of them in a confined space. The 2700K bulbs seem to be notably hotter than the 6500K bulbs too I've noticed. Almost all my CFLs are 23Ws, and each of them raised my box temps by about 3+ degrees without any fans blowing. I wasn't expecting CFLs to raise temps that much when I started my grow, so I had to scramble when I discovered the problem.damn I was checking out those LED's and I must admit I'm tempted to buy one. I have a small grow space and was thinking about doing a small CFL grow because my 250w hps will get too hot, but I think I might have heat issues with the CFL's too. Says the 140w LED is equal to a 300w HID system and you can flip a switch to change spectrums when going from veg to flower. It's one of those things though I think if I'm gonna drop $259 on the 140w, I think why not spend the extra $150 for the 250w. Where are buying from Hydroponics Hut?
Keep the feedback coming on how that LED does in Veg as opposed to CFL with your little ones. I have to decide whether to continue using one of my boxes with a CFL setup for vegging my next auto grow, or whether to grow them entirely in the tent with the LED (or even in my current box with the LED if I don't get the tent right away). Want to make sure the LED is going to get the job done in Veg. BTW, are you using just veg mode?Congrats E, on your new purchase. I'm sure you'll be pleased. Mind you, I did switch from CFL to LED midway through flowering, the change was noticable almost immediately. The foliage green up and fluffed up much more. I have a cheap little light meter that I used to compare the intensity at different distances, and compared it to that of the CFLs. The LED smoked the CFLs in that regard. Also, I have my separate cfl box for my new seedlings, and didn't have room for all 3, so I got 2 under cfl (6500k) and one under the led at full spectrum. That one is thriving as much, if not more than the CFL seeding.
Sonar, if I can make a recommendation, go for the 250. Im using a tiny space as E mentioned, and I think any less power would sell me short. I've even considered a second 250 so that I can fill this tent to max capacity.
E. A tent suggestion, if you can get a 3x3, do it. That way you don't have to fill corner to corner as you will in a 2x3. I've got my next strain picked out. Super Lemon Hazee. This thing provides phenomenal yields, but since my tent is small, I may only be able to fit one. Im so psyched to see the future of LED. By us taking a chance on this technology, we're helping to fund a future in it. I think in 5-10 years, once they have LEDs properly dialed in, HPS may be a thing of the past.