Prop 19 Official Results Thread

tardis

Well-Known Member
Yes, because reducing the resources wasted on marijuana prosecutions ... and the taxing of a new product would obviously increase debt. You have got to be shitting me.

And because people would have to pay taxes, the black market would continue. Sorta like all those Alcohol, Candy, Gasoline, and Corn cartels ... Don't want to run into one of those Twizzler slingers in a dark ally way for sure. :roll:
Bro, I know a guy who sells amazing red twizzlers cheap because there is no tax on the black market! i'll hook you up
 

Hayduke

Well-Known Member
Yes, because reducing the resources wasted on marijuana prosecutions ... and the taxing of a new product would obviously increase debt. You have got to be shitting me.

And because people would have to pay taxes, the black market would continue. Sorta like all those Alcohol, Candy, Gasoline, and Corn cartels ... Don't want to run into one of those Twizzler slingers in a dark ally way for sure. :roll:
Another flaw of 19...it did NOT mandate any tax revenue to go to schools or the general fund. It allowed the local municipality to set the tax and use it for associated costs...like the new Marijuana Code Enforcement Officer who will make sure that your grow is up to all the new codes the city will impose as well as making sure you are not sticking out over the lines.

And Beardo is right...if they could actually collect enough for there to be a surplus the prices would keep the black market alive...Get this...Possibly making cheap mexi schwag more appealing and...wait for it...INCREASING THE DRUG CARTELS!!!!! What the hell do you think the kids are gonna smoke??? Cuz their buddy who graduated last year sure as hell is not gonna risk becoming somebody's new girl friend just to smoke out their buddy...so the kids will buy from the gangsters, who I am told, are supporting the murderous drug cartels with all the Mexi Schwag that they currently sell in Cali...This will INCREASE the amount of Mexi smoked (cuz kids don't smoke schwag...crack whores like my ex-wife do!)

:leaf::peace::leaf:
 

tc1

Well-Known Member
So when alcohol prohibition was repealed ... people continued buying bootleg liquor because it was tax free?
Where may I ask, do you buy your tax free beer?

I mean seriously .... When you lawfully allow a commodity, the supply is increased and prices are driven down. To the point where it is no longer a viable option for criminals to fund their activities because there simply is not enough money in it.

If Cali bud became legal you HONESTLY want people to believe that more people would smoke mexi brick weed? LOL Well gee ... guess we better not ever end marijuana prohibition. Wouldn't want that mexi brick weed to spread all across the country funding cartels. We have a hard enough time dealing with the alcohol mobsters who make a living selling tax free beer, whiskey, and wine.
 

veggiegardener

Well-Known Member
Tell that tot he guy who goes away to prison losing his kids and job sometime next week over weed.
Dude, I came within a hair of being that guy, even though we were legal under P215!

Why do you think we religiously adhere to the current rules? And really hate anything that will change those rules without a LOT of proof that it won't change things for the worse.

Grow up.
 

Hayduke

Well-Known Member
So when alcohol prohibition was repealed ... people continued buying bootleg liquor because it was tax free?
Where may I ask, do you buy your tax free beer?

I mean seriously .... When you lawfully allow a commodity, the supply is increased and prices are driven down. To the point where it is no longer a viable option for criminals to fund their activities because there simply is not enough money in it.

If Cali bud became legal you HONESTLY want people to believe that more people would smoke mexi brick weed? LOL Well gee ... guess we better not ever end marijuana prohibition. Wouldn't want that mexi brick weed to spread all across the country funding cartels. We have a hard enough time dealing with the alcohol mobsters who make a living selling tax free beer, whiskey, and wine.
Well...about the beer...before it started giving me a headache with 1 pint...I brewed my own.

Now get this...Home brewing beer, although practiced by renegades like us, was illegal until 1979 when the evil Jimmy Carter HAD TO FIX THE 21ST AMENDMENT!!!! because although it made home wine making legal, beer was mysteriously left out and therefore illegal. Remember the saying about not knowing history and being doomed to repeat it...get it right the first time!

The rest of your post shows that you read my post that you are referring to, as closely as you read the Proposition to Regulate, Eliminate or Tax Marijuana:roll:

:leaf::peace::leaf:
 

beardo

Well-Known Member
Bro, I know a guy who sells amazing red twizzlers cheap because there is no tax on the black market! i'll hook you up
Yeah their actually are a bunch of people slangin black market twizzlers and kitkats they got m&m's to- if you were in Cali or knew anything about whats going on out here you would've realized that
 

beardo

Well-Known Member
So when alcohol prohibition was repealed ... people continued buying bootleg liquor because it was tax free?
Where may I ask, do you buy your tax free beer?

I mean seriously .... When you lawfully allow a commodity, the supply is increased and prices are driven down. To the point where it is no longer a viable option for criminals to fund their activities because there simply is not enough money in it.

If Cali bud became legal you HONESTLY want people to believe that more people would smoke mexi brick weed? LOL Well gee ... guess we better not ever end marijuana prohibition. Wouldn't want that mexi brick weed to spread all across the country funding cartels. We have a hard enough time dealing with the alcohol mobsters who make a living selling tax free beer, whiskey, and wine.
Same place you get bootlegged cigaretts-Cali, you see our government has allowed our country to be invaded and for now the invading forces are selling illegal marlboros - bootlegged liquor and clothes
 

Serapis

Well-Known Member
And Beardo is right...if they could actually collect enough for there to be a surplus the prices would keep the black market alive...Get this...Possibly making cheap mexi schwag more appealing and...wait for it...INCREASING THE DRUG CARTELS!!!!! What the hell do you think the kids are gonna smoke??? Cuz their buddy who graduated last year sure as hell is not gonna risk becoming somebody's new girl friend just to smoke out their buddy...so the kids will buy from the gangsters,
Now look at that quote..... Any reasonable person has to ask, how your side can come up with some of the bizzare explanations that you do to support your stance against 19. Scare tactics and smearing fear about with unrealistic bantor like this.....

Where are the kids gonna get theirs? Are you kidding me? With the number of 25' gardens popping up all over the place? Give me a break.... ain't no one gonna be buying Mexican schwag when you have grow ops all over the state. Did you really type that mexican buying kid crap with a straight face? :)
 

beardo

Well-Known Member
Yeah their actually are a bunch of people slangin black market twizzlers and kitkats they got m&m's to- if you were in Cali or knew anything about whats going on out here you would've realized that
Same place you get bootlegged cigaretts-Cali, you see our government has allowed our country to be invaded and for now the invading forces are selling illegal marlboros - bootlegged liquor and clothes
I didn't think you would have much to say once i pointed that out...i'm sure other people out here can verify that this is a lagit problem,, you get harassed on busses trains even at atm's and inside fast food resturants about buying candy
 

TreeOfLiberty

Well-Known Member
As far as taxes go, does anyone think a legalization bill would pass in any state if it had a straight out NO TAX STRINGS ATTACHED written into it ? I don't see that type of legalization bill ever happening.

I bet there were so many dispensary owners and caregivers holding their breath and praying Prop 19 wouldn't pass because they knew it would be the end of $350-$400 ounces if it did.

No seller of MMJ will ever support any legalization bill anyway, even if it didn't have any taxes attached to it, because it would ruin their overly excessive prices.

I bet it would sting like a bitch for MMJ sellers, seeing dispensary after dispensary shut down because the average ounce price of A+ prime herb dropped to $75 because of a legalization bill passing, hell...maybe even less than that. California has an estimated population of 37 million , could you imagine if 1 out of every 10 Californians had their own legal grow ? damn !!! That would be 3,700,000 grow rooms !!! Hell yeah ...prices would drop like a rock and no dispensary or caregiver wants to see this no matter what.

I'm just thinking about the people, and their freedom. I have my own MMJ closet grow in Colorado and my 250 HPS pulls me a modest 4 ounces every 60 days. Just like most every household has a TV in their house, I wish they also had a garden in their closet too :D
 

beardo

Well-Known Member
As far as taxes go, does anyone think a legalization bill would pass in any state if it had a straight out NO TAX STRINGS ATTACHED written into it ? I don't see that type of legalization bill ever happening.

:D
It is a voter inititive we need 51% and it passes, you can put whatever on the ballot- If they would keep it real simple and it made sense it would pass.
 

veggiegardener

Well-Known Member
Simple, and avoiding loopholes for the greed heads.

A historical note, sorta.

My great grandfather had the only legal still in Lodi, California during Prohibition.

He was allowed to make brandy for my great grandmother who had a very bad heart, based on her doctor's recommendation.

During the Great War(WW1), my great uncles fought in Europe, leaving my teenage grandmother to tend the still, when her dad, a railroad line boss, was away from home.

She used to tell us stories of how the Mayor and Police Chief would often come by the house to check on the quality of the medicine.

Not much new, in this old world.
 

nathenking

Well-Known Member
Simple, and avoiding loopholes for the greed heads.

A historical note, sorta.

My great grandfather had the only legal still in Lodi, California during Prohibition.

He was allowed to make brandy for my great grandmother who had a very bad heart, based on her doctor's recommendation.

During the Great War(WW1), my great uncles fought in Europe, leaving my teenage grandmother to tend the still, when her dad, a railroad line boss, was away from home.

She used to tell us stories of how the Mayor and Police Chief would often come by the house to check on the quality of the medicine.

Not much new, in this old world.
Awesome story.... i love personal history like that... Its so intereresting VG...
 

Hayduke

Well-Known Member
Now look at that quote..... Any reasonable person has to ask, how your side can come up with some of the bizzare explanations that you do to support your stance against 19. Scare tactics and smearing fear about with unrealistic bantor like this.....

Where are the kids gonna get theirs? Are you kidding me? With the number of 25' gardens popping up all over the place? Give me a break.... ain't no one gonna be buying Mexican schwag when you have grow ops all over the state. Did you really type that mexican buying kid crap with a straight face? :)
Well my tongue was a bit in my cheek...but I was trying to make a point about the crimes created with regards to the under 21 crowd. It's not like they will not get buds (ecstasy is both popular and illegal)...but they sure as hell are not gonna get it from one of the token gardens...

And out-of-staters have been trying to spin Mexico's drug cartel problem as more than the diversion that it is with regards to MJ in California...it just is not a big issue (heroin and meth are a different story)...They were saying things like "prop 19 will crush the illegal drug cartels!"...:roll: when as I pointed out...It MIGHT just increase their business with all the prohibition and willy-nilly taxes...certainly no less plausible or fantastic.

Does not really matter...all those years of hearing that annoying "Hooked on Phonics worked for me" radio commercials seemed to have paid off with an increase in literacy rates among the now voting age pot smoker/farmer/activist/dude...well at least those in California;)

And my grandfather used to tell stories about how during prohibition families were allowed 2 cans of malt/month for "bread making" and that most folks used that to brew a batch of home brew...and how the local pastor would make his rounds...they would drink out of the empty malt cans.

Then the same grandfather, while at college, passed out on the couch of the frat house after a night of drinking "bath tub gin"...while passed out, another frat brother came home and took his coat off, throwing it on the couch (not seeing grandpa)...when he awoke and could not see...for a moment thought he had gone blind from the gin!

Anyway...glad I could leave you scratchin' your head...I suppose it is good for you.

:leaf::peace::leaf:
 

veggiegardener

Well-Known Member
Never heard about the malt, but my family have lived in wine country for well over a century.

Ever had wine made from raisins?

Thick as syrup, and about 25% alcohol.
 

tardis

Well-Known Member
Yeah their actually are a bunch of people slangin black market twizzlers and kitkats they got m&m's to- if you were in Cali or knew anything about whats going on out here you would've realized that
I dunno man, twizzlers are one thing, but dealers selling M&Ms and Kitkats are really sketchy people.
 

tardis

Well-Known Member
As far as taxes go, does anyone think a legalization bill would pass in any state if it had a straight out NO TAX STRINGS ATTACHED written into it ? I don't see that type of legalization bill ever happening.

I bet there were so many dispensary owners and caregivers holding their breath and praying Prop 19 wouldn't pass because they knew it would be the end of $350-$400 ounces if it did.

No seller of MMJ will ever support any legalization bill anyway, even if it didn't have any taxes attached to it, because it would ruin their overly excessive prices.

I bet it would sting like a bitch for MMJ sellers, seeing dispensary after dispensary shut down because the average ounce price of A+ prime herb dropped to $75 because of a legalization bill passing, hell...maybe even less than that. California has an estimated population of 37 million , could you imagine if 1 out of every 10 Californians had their own legal grow ? damn !!! That would be 3,700,000 grow rooms !!! Hell yeah ...prices would drop like a rock and no dispensary or caregiver wants to see this no matter what.

I'm just thinking about the people, and their freedom. I have my own MMJ closet grow in Colorado and my 250 HPS pulls me a modest 4 ounces every 60 days. Just like most every household has a TV in their house, I wish they also had a garden in their closet too :D
Is it OK if instead of thinking of the poor dispensary owner, i instead think of the poor elderly woman dying of cancer who can't afford marijuana so instead has to take the semicovered painkillers that will end her life as a member of society forever?

I would rather this women got affordable and least harmful medicine, aka cannabis. I think its more important for the dying to find help then for the business man to profit off them. Sure profits are great, but don't leech off the poor and dying give them their due too.

Also I don't think smokers should have to deal with price fixing. If you had to deal with price fixing for anything else, you'd be mad about it if you had to pay for it regularly.
 

TreeOfLiberty

Well-Known Member
Is it OK if instead of thinking of the poor dispensary owner, i instead think of the poor elderly woman dying of cancer who can't afford marijuana so instead has to take the semicovered painkillers that will end her life as a member of society forever?

I would rather this women got affordable and least harmful medicine, aka cannabis. I think its more important for the dying to find help then for the business man to profit off them. Sure profits are great, but don't leech off the poor and dying give them their due too.

Also I don't think smokers should have to deal with price fixing. If you had to deal with price fixing for anything else, you'd be mad about it if you had to pay for it regularly.
I hate the dispensaries , because of their greed. They've had a cash cow going now and they don't want anything to stop their extreme profiteering off of MMJ. It's the same here in Colorado where I'm at. I moved from Georgia to Colorado because I was tired of chancing my closet grow on getting found out, Georgia is one of the worst states to get busted for growing and they'll probably be one of the last states to have any type of legalization or even any MMJ bill.

I got my MMJ recommendation on chronic back pain, 7 bulging disc with gross stenosis , both knees have torn meniscus also. I couldn't afford the expensive opiate pain pills and seeing a pain doctor every 2 months at $225 per visit , I done that in Georgia from 2003 to 2007, started growing for myself in 2007 and saving up with a plan to move to Colorado, which I done in 2009. With an average price of $350 an ounce at the dispensaries and I go through 2 ounces a month...if I didn't know how to grow that would cost me $700 a month that I couldn't afford, hell ...I paid less than that when I was seeing a pain doctor every 2 months and getting my Methadone scripts filled every 30 days back in Georgia.

I too think about all the people on fixed incomes, the ones that need herb for ailments but the one's that just don't have a green thumb or either they live in a non-MMJ state and aren't in a position to move to a MMJ state like I did. I got my MMJ recommendation last year in Colorado Springs from a doctor that was in with a dispensary and they got pissed with me that after I got my recommendation that I told them I was growing my own and not buying their over-priced MMJ. It's big business to them and the dispensaries don't ever want to see herb legalized, though they might say different, they know legalization will fuck their income up. Legalization would drop prices big time.

I also think about the prisons, the people that get busted for possession or cultivating, then the bullshit criminal records from that which prevent getting good jobs. No dispensary owner in California or Colorado gives 2 shits about anyone in Texas or Florida or any other non-MMJ state that gets the judicial hammer on some disabled person who's got a closet grow for their ailment.

All it would take is for just ONE STATE, to legalize , and then other states would start passing similar legalization bills. It's going to eventually happen, but you will always have the crowd that's gonna bitch about something in the bill that they don't like, be it "I don't like the taxes attached to it"...or.." 25 square feet ain't big enough" yah-yah-yah, ect. They better enjoy the profits whilst they can, maybe 5 years from now ...those $350 ounces just might be $35 ounces because the movement is growing, legalization is nearing, its going to cause more people to grow, maybe even to the point where there will be so many home grows in so many states all over the nation that there will be so much herb being produced that people will be giving their excess away like a neighbor who regularly gives tomatoes and peppers to their next door neighbors. ONE STATE, that's it, all it would take, and within a few years from that ONE STATE... most all other states would follow.

I do think its wrong for cities to ban dispensaries and limit their number, BUT... I don't feel sorry for the dispensaries because of their greedy prices. The days of the dispensaries are numbered , the herb will be freed , because I have a dream...that one day... every house in America will have a green closet. I'd love to re-write MLK's "I have a dream speech", and make it fitting for the legalization people. :D
 

nathenking

Well-Known Member
I hate the dispensaries , because of their greed. They've had a cash cow going now and they don't want anything to stop their extreme profiteering off of MMJ. It's the same here in Colorado where I'm at. I moved from Georgia to Colorado because I was tired of chancing my closet grow on getting found out, Georgia is one of the worst states to get busted for growing and they'll probably be one of the last states to have any type of legalization or even any MMJ bill.

I got my MMJ recommendation on chronic back pain, 7 bulging disc with gross stenosis , both knees have torn meniscus also. I couldn't afford the expensive opiate pain pills and seeing a pain doctor every 2 months at $225 per visit , I done that in Georgia from 2003 to 2007, started growing for myself in 2007 and saving up with a plan to move to Colorado, which I done in 2009. With an average price of $350 an ounce at the dispensaries and I go through 2 ounces a month...if I didn't know how to grow that would cost me $700 a month that I couldn't afford, hell ...I paid less than that when I was seeing a pain doctor every 2 months and getting my Methadone scripts filled every 30 days back in Georgia.

I too think about all the people on fixed incomes, the ones that need herb for ailments but the one's that just don't have a green thumb or either they live in a non-MMJ state and aren't in a position to move to a MMJ state like I did. I got my MMJ recommendation last year in Colorado Springs from a doctor that was in with a dispensary and they got pissed with me that after I got my recommendation that I told them I was growing my own and not buying their over-priced MMJ. It's big business to them and the dispensaries don't ever want to see herb legalized, though they might say different, they know legalization will fuck their income up. Legalization would drop prices big time.

I also think about the prisons, the people that get busted for possession or cultivating, then the bullshit criminal records from that which prevent getting good jobs. No dispensary owner in California or Colorado gives 2 shits about anyone in Texas or Florida or any other non-MMJ state that gets the judicial hammer on some disabled person who's got a closet grow for their ailment.

All it would take is for just ONE STATE, to legalize , and then other states would start passing similar legalization bills. It's going to eventually happen, but you will always have the crowd that's gonna bitch about something in the bill that they don't like, be it "I don't like the taxes attached to it"...or.." 25 square feet ain't big enough" yah-yah-yah, ect. They better enjoy the profits whilst they can, maybe 5 years from now ...those $350 ounces just might be $35 ounces because the movement is growing, legalization is nearing, its going to cause more people to grow, maybe even to the point where there will be so many home grows in so many states all over the nation that there will be so much herb being produced that people will be giving their excess away like a neighbor who regularly gives tomatoes and peppers to their next door neighbors. ONE STATE, that's it, all it would take, and within a few years from that ONE STATE... most all other states would follow.

I do think its wrong for cities to ban dispensaries and limit their number, BUT... I don't feel sorry for the dispensaries because of their greedy prices. The days of the dispensaries are numbered , the herb will be freed , because I have a dream...that one day... every house in America will have a green closet. I'd love to re-write MLK's "I have a dream speech", and make it fitting for the legalization people. :D
Here is a link that touches on the "free med maj for the poor" information. what do you think? https://www.rollitup.org/content/colorado-approved-free-medical-marijuana-85.html
 

growone

Well-Known Member
we may be over analyzing prop 19's defeat
most of the points are good, but a simpler explanation may suffice
voter turnout was 30%, or so i saw on another thread
that kind of turnout is typically skewed to older voters, who have higher turnout rates

EDIT: Did a fact check, rate was not that low. 44.2% is the current actual. But it is a low turnout rate which does give older voters a stronger voice in the process.
 
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