Jack Herer's CCHH 2012 Initiative: www.youthfederation.com/cchhi2012.html

[Ernst]

I thank everyone for the place to post..

I believe improving the lives of our canna people is the right way to go.

I believe the problem with our medical cannabis system is too many non-medical are using it as a cover for industry.
I say legalize private trade, public industry and protect our medical people where they are being exploited and discriminated against.

Thanks.. Catch this thread tomorrow!

 

[Matt Rize]

Again Prop 215 passed because it was simple and for the people. The next Initiative will pass if it is simple to understand and is for the people I am willing to champion..

I would disagree. I believe 215 passed because medical. Medical mj is popular and the other states are proof of that. but recreational herb is a whole different story... you feel me?

 

[beardo]

I think a similar law could be passed, but not this one. This law allows for zero local control of business and no special local benefits. Even the most liberal cities/counties will oppose this.

I pretty much agree with you but the key to this is it is not up to the cities it is up to the citizens. A voter inititive needs a majority vote not approval from cities. all the bill needs is to make sence be clearly written and benefit or not adversly affect the majority of people and it will be passed. It needs to be a good bill or be heavily advertized and campainged for-which 19 was and failed. I think a simple straight forward legalization bill would pass

 

[Dan Kone]

what do think the public (term used loosely to define enough voters to pass something) would find acceptable?

I know taxation and regulation will be there. It has to be. Its all about the benjamins. Plus, herb gets you high. Concentrates can be IMO drug form MMj due to potency. Why would 95% THC BHO not be a drug? Don't get me wrong, we need medicine like this. But saying it should be let loose on the public without restrictions is insane.

As for the age thing. I suggest 19. Only really left-behind high school kids ( ) will be able to legally smoke, and they probably smoke already.

We will have to tax the dispensary vendors, and the dispensaries (as we currently do but probably more, which means 50+ dollar 1/8 are here to stay). We will have to get our gardens inspected, and this I totally agree with. All of our products will get quality control tests at some point, which I also agree with. This will actually be part of the reason prices won't fall. Regulation ain't cheap people. Systems of gov't are expensive and wasteful and the taxation of Cannabis will be no different.

Of course there will be a giant underground of growers that hide out, and just get in where we fit in, as we currently do under 215.

50 sq. ft. ? , 2000 watts (a number ASA uses for safe wattage MMj), no plant limits, possesion limits to 5 pounds (because i could smoke max 5 lbs )

I don't think the actual regulations themselves would be important as long as they exist. The average non-smoker doesn't know shit about quantities let alone how much you can yield in a certain area. Because of this it's important to appease the people who left left out of prop 19. I'd say 100sq ft, possession limit sound probably be a couple ounces + whatever your garden yields you can keep at your house (like prop 19 but said in a way that people can't misinterpret.). If you just make a 5 pound limit to carry then that is legalizing large scale street dealing basically. 50 sq ft is fine too as long as it is made very clear that it does not apply to medical growing. Can't limit medical and still have the support of the community.

19 as an age limit shouldn't get the same complaints from people with kids that 18 might bring but will bring be preferable to a 21 limit for a lot of people. 21 age limit probably isn't a deal breaker for most people, but I do see why people would object to 19.

Taxing is key. I think setting a specific tax is preferable to letting any politician who wants a piece of the action implement new tax after new tax. We know from 1937 that people will use taxation as a method of prohibition if they are allowed to.

My idea for taxation was rather than have a general tax going into the state fund, specifically designate that tax money to a specific organization that wouldn't otherwise support legalization and key the tax money local so cities/counties who allow dispensaries would be the places that benefit from the tax. That gives incentives to communities to welcome dispensaries/grows. Why give cities that raid and shut down dispensaries? Doesn't help us.

I was thinking either give the money to local schools or police department. The teachers union is no joke, if we got their support legalization would likely pass. Or just say fuck it and use the tax money as basically a bribe to law enforcement to leave us the hell alone. If cops are getting paid based on dispensary sales, I would expect a serious and immediate decline in police raids.

The short version:
1) exempt all medical use.
2) 50/100sq ft grow space limit
3) public possession of ~2 ounces, 5 pounds/no limit if kept in your home.
4) Age limit must be somewhere between 19-21
5) No broad open ended taxation. Set it up front.
6) Be smart about where the tax money goes. Taxing should be able to gain us the support of another group that would otherwise be indifferent or in opposition to legalization. That money should buy us some votes!

 

[oOBe RyeOo]

let's get real for half a second and admit that money makes the world go round. legislation doesn't get passed unless it is funded and this money has to come from somewhere. the growers aren't putting it up, half of them prefer to profit off of prohibition, the status quo jerks. you expect lee and soros to fund this next round? i think they will both wait (lee cause he's shot the wad on 19 and soros cause sore ass from 19).

so its all about the money because you and i can go door to door all day and not reach the TV crowd. "where's the money lebowski?"

I donated and and I don't even live in Cali. Give me a link and I'll donate when I have money.

 

[Dan Kone]

First off let me apologize if I was overly blunt. No personal disrespect was intended, that's just how I am.

2. As far as I know you can't be 60 and have weed on School grounds or in school zones. I fail to see the foundation of suggesting that cannabis never is on school with 18 or younger. So I don't see what to do with this counter point

You're still letting highschool kids buy/grow cannabis legally. You just lost the vote of every parent in California with that. That's a majority of voters, game over. Legalization fails.

Solution: Why not say 19+? 18 & 21 are basically just arbitrary numbers anyways.?

3. The idea of donors voting is one those willing to send in even a dollar are rewarded and those who sit on the fence and wait for things to happen while taking no chances or risking anything are present in our Canna-Community because they are in our social-communities. Simple it's a suggestion to reward those freedom fighters and not gifting to those who do nothing or wait until it profits them to take something like expecting a vote when they have done none of the work. What can be done and it is free is to be a part of the movement. That reward is what you see me getting right now. I am being rewarded for fighting for canna-freedom for you by your kind and supportive comments.

A fantastic idea in theory. However that pretty much guarantees a ballot measure that is tailored to cannabis enthusiasts which is very likely to fail.

4. No i did not say drug dealing is legal. Any commercial sales is a different class. I am saying that if I have friends who want to have my cannabis I can legally sell it to them like I can sell a used car.

How is that different than legalizing selling bud out of your house? That's not how you get a majority of voters to support legalization. That is what legalization is supposed to stop in their minds.

Solution: Legalize consignment sales of cannabis at dispensaries and at cannabis farmers markets. Then you could legally get rid of any excesses from your grows in a regulated environment.

99 Plants is a federal Line in the Sand. if I have anything to say I would word the language 99 or more but anyone who knows about Eddy Lapp knows they lost freedom and wealth for growing more than 99 even though all the plants had Medical people associated with the counts. So 99 is a line in the sand in regards to Federal.

Think about this from the perspective of someone who's never seen a cannabis plant. 99 plants seems like a lot. That could scare away voters. A sq ft limit seems less likely to have that same effect. 10 x 10 doesn't seem like a big space, but that should give you significantly more cannabis than you can possibly consume.

Or maybe that's just my perception and I've got it all wrong.

I disagree that it has zero chance in that I point to the simplicity of Prop 215.

It's a lot harder for voters to deny someone who has aids/cancer medicine they need to stay alive then it is to deny me the ability to smoke a joint because it's fun.

You're comparing apples and oranges.

So Keep it Simple. Spell out the rights everyone has clearly. Assign the Tax to a central State regularity commission. Pass a Bill of rights for Medical people so they are not discriminated in hiring or employment and housing and we will have a good start.

That sounds great to me. Just remember who's voting.

I cannot defend an Initiative that isn't written yet. I assume you understand I am ringing the Bell to gather the flock to make it possible to write, fund and promote an Initiative for all of us by all of us in 2012. That I am taking the time and money to host California2012.org to facilitate that.

Much respect for all of that. Your enthusiasm is admirable.

Do you have a site? Do you have an initiative?
What do you do? Are you willing to come help?
Donate? Car wash?

I do have a site, but that's business. I don't necessarily want all the stupid shit I say here reflecting on that so I keep that on the DL. I run a collective. The only time I get to really go anywhere is when I got on hunts for genetics. So going anywhere for me is out of the question. Donate? Absolutely I'll donate to any legalization effort I think has a chance in passing.

You ask why so anti-business. I am not anti-Business I believe the market will stabilize and be natural and does not need a prop-19 market regulatory starting point to make it succeed.

Well you can throw out taxation if you think a system for commercial sales outlets are not necessary. You can throw out any chance of it passing along with that.

Money makes the world go round. You don't have to like that, but you should know it's true.

If the initiative is simple enough, grants rights to people and protects us all to trade between Ca Residents I believe only the most greedy will say no.

And every person in California who doesn't care that much about ending prohibition, which by the way is the majority of voters.

Are you in or out? Are you a fence sitter just tossing rocks?

Until I see something that has an actual chance of passing a majority vote in California then I'm a fence sitter just tossing rocks. I mean no offense by that, I'm just saying that what you are supporting has no chance in hell of becoming law in California.

I'm sorry, but you aren't at all taking into account that the majority of voters in California will absolutely hate this. You'll gain an extra 5% of voters from the cannabis community and lose 50% of people who are indifferent to cannabis legalization. What you are proposing will absolutely not pass. I'd support it. I'd love for that to be the law. I'd make my life very easy. But I'm not exactly the average voter.

 

[Dan Kone]

I pretty much agree with you but the key to this is it is not up to the cities it is up to the citizens. A voter inititive needs a majority vote not approval from cities. all the bill needs is to make sence be clearly written and benefit or not adversly affect the majority of people and it will be passed.

Point taken. I totally agree. Thanks for the correction.

It needs to be a good bill or be heavily advertized and campainged for-which 19 was and failed. I think a simple straight forward legalization bill would pass

I agree with that. I think most California voters wouldn't know the difference between prop 19 and a more liberal legalization effort that had the support of the 215/cannabis communities. As long as there are clear incentives for non-smokers to vote yes + nothing in it that the opposition could throw in our faces in TV ads. But yes, generally I think simple and clear is the right direction.

 

[Matt Rize]

Great posts DK, I agree with everything you said. I just want to emphasize that any tax/regulate bill should start with MMj, and clearly state that decrim does not affect patients. The Kelly Decision stands and 215 stands.

Ernst - you must see by now that we are on the same side... I just think some of us are more middle of the road (errr... realistic). We all appreciate your enthusiasm and efforts. for real. Peace.

 

[beardo]

Great posts DK, I agree with everything you said. I just want to emphasize that any tax/regulate bill should start with MMj, and clearly state that decrim does not affect patients. The Kelly Decision stands and 215 stands.

Ernst - you must see by now that we are on the same side... I just think some of us are more middle of the road (errr... realistic). We all appreciate your enthusiasm and efforts. for real. Peace.

I oppose taxation and regulation but I support legalization. I support full legalization and no taxes except maybe having the standard sales tax apply to cannabis sold through retail outlets that chose to sell cannabis and cannabis products. I could also see that maybe it should be exempt from sales tax all together on the grounds of it being a food crop and a medicine.

 

[Matt Rize]

I oppose taxation and regulation but I support legalization. I support full legalization and no taxes except maybe having the standard sales tax apply to cannabis sold through retail outlets that chose to sell cannabis and cannabis products. I could also see that maybe it should be exempt from sales tax all together on the grounds of it being a food crop and a medicine.

oh beardo, i feel ya on that. from an intellectual standpoint. i didn't mean to speak for everyone like that.

but what are the chances this will happen in my lifetime or yours? i don't mean that to antagonize, i would like your take on the realistic outcome of true legalization. does true legalization of herb exist anywhere on the planet?

 

[beardo]

oh beardo, i feel ya on that. from an intellectual standpoint. i didn't mean to speak for everyone like that.

but what are the chances this will happen in my lifetime or yours? i don't mean that to antagonize, i would like your take on the realistic outcome of true legalization. does true legalization of herb exist anywhere on the planet?

That is the great thing about the California voter initiative process it could happen.most politicians wont support full legalization and big buisness won't support full legalization. I truly believe prop 19 would have passes if not for those who read the bill and found flaws and felt the obligation to discuss the questional impact of the bill. People wanted to vote for legalization and that is how the pro 19 side portrayed the prop. I think it was only defeated because those who saw fault in the bill combined with conservitive voters created a slight majority. If every marijuana supporter had a one page or even better 2 or 3 paragraph bill that anyone with a grade school education could quickly read and clearly understand I think we could pass it. Yes taxes create support because you are somehow lead to believe this will help you. People think if we tax marijuana that taxes of non users will decrease or that services will increase. By creating regulations you gain buisness support because if you need to have permits and licences and pay taxes that creates an investment oportunity. I think a true legalization would lose some support but gain much more - if everyone could just say read this....it says Cannabis is not illegal or prohibited. - Vote for it please even if you don't use cannabis. It will save money on enforcement create job opportunities create revenue increase tourism. then if necessary after it has been passed cities could pass laws addressing any problems that arise. Imagine if you were in a room with 10 people other than yourself and you had to convince at least 5 of them that marijuana shouldn't be illegal- thats all it is we can get it done dont let them convince you otherwise. their propaganda machine wants you to believe that we need to make concessions just like they wanted people to believe 19 was legalization.

 

[Ernst]

I would disagree. I believe 215 passed because medical. Medical mj is popular and the other states are proof of that. but recreational herb is a whole different story... you feel me?

It is a lot of things that is true.

It passed perhaps because we had a chance to say it is good for us.

On the other hand we also say it is bad for us.

Which way to go as a unified people? With those gearing up to repeal prop-215 in 2012 or with those pushing it to the way left "that it is good for all of us?"

We stand on one side of the issue or the other.. the middle are fence sitters tossing rocks and playing the both sides game in the name of profits,

That is how I see it.


The Bible has a goodly quote and though I'm Buddhist I like this Quote. "So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth." Said God in Revelation 3:16

Time to polarize and see if we can swing way left.

Is anyone against 99 plants per-adult here?
Is anyone against Job protections against employment discriminations because of smoking weed three days ago?
Is anyone against private trade?
is anyone against one central regulatory authority over "Dry Counties?"
is anyone against including our 18+ Sons and Daughters in the get out of jail free program called legalizing?

Lets hear it!

Come out of the cannabis closet!

 

[Ernst]

I pretty much agree with you but the key to this is it is not up to the cities it is up to the citizens. A voter initiative needs a majority vote not approval from cities. all the bill needs is to make sense be clearly written and benefit or not adversely affect the majority of people and it will be passed. It needs to be a good bill or be heavily advertised and campaigned for-which 19 was and failed. I think a simple straight forward legalization bill would pass

Yes.. That is right. Simple majority.

Does anyone agree with me that Prop-19 was trying to establish Drug policy and Market control at the same time legalizing?

My suggestion of Simple to get it passed is like the bricks of the street in Amsterdam, Once down the are the road all others will travel on.

We did not like the prop-19 road. We did like the Prop-215 road.

If 2012is paid for by the people and is simple to understand in application we have the road we all can live with.

Going more liberal will not deny Business. It will not deny Private Horticulturists, It will not send our 18 - 21 to jail for simply being young.
It can add worker protections so those who would buy from business have jobs and housing.

Look folks progress is not an easy thing.. Freedom is seldom granted through kindness when economics are involved.

If we are to fight a second time let us raise a flag we can all follow.

Going Liberal and promoting rights for the people is a sure way to get them to vote yes.

We will never make the haters happy. Like our Central valley farmers.. They want cheep labor until they don't need them and then it's all about sending people back to Mexico.

We must not make the mistake of thinking those opposing cannabis are somehow righteous and clear minded. They for the most part are not!

So we need to decide once and for all what side of the Cannabis fence California is on.. Medical good Recreational bad? Are we that schizophrenic?
What is the difference bet2ween cannabis consumed medically and that same cannabis consumed recreationally? Yes our Mental Health.. Oyr Minds as in it's all in our heads!
If it is good for you how can it be bad for you? It isn't it's bad for the haters and we have been raised to fear being busted.

If you think that you are not a Cannabis Coward then look at your user name.. is it your true name?

See my point? We cannot be free until we get real and change the law..

Swing left.. Fight for rights and protections! Just trying to find a way to sell Prop-19 again is absolutely stupid.



We also need to reach our Hispanic Canna-people!

 

[Ernst]

COMPROMISE is the key to politics. Uncompromising legislation has been and will be passed. But compromised legislation stands the test of time.

99 plants and 8 lbs. GTFO if you need 99 plants and 8 lbs. Might as well be 99 pounds to the common person. Its silly and defeats us before we begin.

a 10x10 indoors can produce 25 lbs a year easy. After expenses are recovered we are talking about 20 pounds. If you and your family needs more than 20 pounds of herb to smoke a year... then you have problems that herb can't cure.

Here is something I have wondered.. Why are we concerned with what our neighbour has?

Throughout the Prop 19 experience I have seen the counter to true canna-freedom played as "Too Greedy = 99 plants" Too Greedy = a garden for every one. But yet Prop 19 advertised you can grow and keep all you want from your 5x5 at the same time they knew that you will go to jail for seeling it to your neighbour. That was Prop-19's idea of Canna-Freedom.

Does that sound free to you?

So yes if your neighbour pulls in 990 pounds that is not a personal stash and I would advise your neighbour with the 990 pounds to move that in proper legal ways rather than deal it since it's really obvious that 990 is a possible federal charge and forfeiture of property and liberty.

However if your neighbour is making a new strain and needs to grow out 99 seeds to find the right ones this is Horticulture and is a time and culturally honoured practice in American culture.

So on the one hand someone growing for export had better hide and the honest gardener should have nothing to fear.

We can divide these things into two lists


Respectable behaviour under Left-Wing Legalization and Disrespectable Behaviour under Left-Wing Legalization

Acceptable Not Acceptable
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Breeding new strains | Exporting out of California
|


It's a simple as that.

I know many of you are brainwashed to be afraid and look for a compromise before you get to negotiations but true negotiations are something you come to the table to with a list of things you want. Prop-19 tried to come to the table with a list of what they compromised to in hopes of it passing and guess what? They found the No people wanting compramise on the compromises!
It's like a Dog with it's tail between it's legs still hoping for some love from a mean owner!

Crawling with a second Prop-19 is not going to get us a warm spot by the fire in the Haters house! We are still dogs in the rain to many and no compromise will change that.
Our only chance to stand up and be free is to overturn the current situation!

Be a Canna-Civil Rights Marcher! Be the change! Be the light that shines on the truth that XCannabis is not only harmless it is good for you just look at the medical uses. Connect the Dots people. We have been trained to accept oppression!

Ask yourself and others "If Cannabis is good for you why is it bad for you?" I'm guessing if we all think about that we will see that paving that road with freedom bricks for the people first and bossiness second is the right decision for 2012.

So how is something good for you and bad for you at the same time? The answer is it is the Law.. Change the Law is the only solution to stop Canna-political-schizophrenia in California.

 

[Ernst]

That is the great thing about the California voter initiative process it could happen.most politicians wont support full legalization and big buisness won't support full legalization. I truly believe prop 19 would have passes if not for those who read the bill and found flaws and felt the obligation to discuss the questional impact of the bill. People wanted to vote for legalization and that is how the pro 19 side portrayed the prop. I think it was only defeated because those who saw fault in the bill combined with conservitive voters created a slight majority. If every marijuana supporter had a one page or even better 2 or 3 paragraph bill that anyone with a grade school education could quickly read and clearly understand I think we could pass it. Yes taxes create support because you are somehow lead to believe this will help you. People think if we tax marijuana that taxes of non users will decrease or that services will increase. By creating regulations you gain buisness support because if you need to have permits and licences and pay taxes that creates an investment oportunity. I think a true legalization would lose some support but gain much more - if everyone could just say read this....it says Cannabis is not illegal or prohibited. - Vote for it please even if you don't use cannabis. It will save money on enforcement create job opportunities create revenue increase tourism. then if necessary after it has been passed cities could pass laws addressing any problems that arise. Imagine if you were in a room with 10 people other than yourself and you had to convince at least 5 of them that marijuana shouldn't be illegal- thats all it is we can get it done dont let them convince you otherwise. their propaganda machine wants you to believe that we need to make concessions just like they wanted people to believe 19 was legalization.

There was that Political Trifecta : The Pot bust of 105+ tons of weed and the extremely prompt media covered burning of it.. I can't remember seeing a burning on other busts. The Weed just quietly disappeared from our purview. Then there was the well timed Federal Government announcement of reinforcing their position through the media of we will still do our job no mater what and the kicker ; The on the spot tax of $100 instead of jail.

That was the political trifecta!

What Prop 19 didn't do was have our people behind it 100% In fact i was there at a meeting and I know they didn't care about some areas of California. They only saw it as a win or lose issue and not a Freedom issue.
let us face reality.. Those Canna-Businesses need to expand market or like any other business it will die. Cost go up always and if sales are flat well that is bad for business. Prop-19 was as much about Oakland and other large scale Canna-Business advancing as it was in allowing people to smoke weed without a $100 fine.

This time, 2012, let us aim at the freedom for people and let business and local jurisdictions worry about market share.
Why does a Legalization effort have to empower business over people's rights?
After all people are the living beings that consume cannabis.. The last time I checked a business didn't toke nor does it have a heart beat!

2012- FOR THE PEOPLE!

 

[Ernst]

Guys.. I will start a thread on what we want for our next Initiative.

Come and voice you choices.

After we have enough choices we will craft a poll and then decide what our Initiative will contain!

Come to California2012.org and contribute. The sit is not affiliated with anyone but GoDaddy.com and my wallet.

Come post your Initiative Wants and Wishes and together we will craft our next Voter Initiative! It's that simple "Really Really." <shrek>

http://california2012.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=190&start=0

Ernst

 

[Ernst]

I have my list of 5
1. 18+
2. Medical Bill of rights ( Tokers bill of rights )
3. 99 plants per person 18+
4 One tax and Regulate authority not 600
5. Ca resident to Ca resident trade

 

[Dan Kone]

I know many of you are brainwashed to be afraid and look for a compromise before you get to negotiations but true negotiations are something you come to the table to with a list of things you want.

lol. Not brainwashed, just not under the delusion that the people of California are going to vote for legalized street dealing and letting highschool kids grow. You have to understand that this is never going to happen. No chance.

Some of your ideas are pretty good. I'm starting to warm up to the idea of a centralized system to prevent dry counties. But there is just no way that voters pass what you've got there. You're not taking into consideration how non-smokers are going to respond to that. You need a majority of voters to pass a law in Cali.

Under what you proposed I could turn my entire house into a grow house then sell bud out of my house with absolutely no way to tell how much money I'm making. And that's exactly what I would do if that passed.

Prop-19 tried to come to the table with a list of what they compromised to in hopes of it passing and guess what? They found the No people wanting compramise on the compromises!

I think you took the wrong message from that. Everyone would have supported prop 19 with some very minor changes. With these things prop 19 passes easily:

1) exempt medical users completely in a more clear way
2) no exclusive permit system (perhaps a centralized system like you suggest?)
3) release all people in jail convicted of non-violent cannabis charges

With those three minor changes, prop 19 would pass easily. You have to understand the fact that you need the votes non-smokers to pass legalization and not all non-smoking voters are the same. Sure, some of them will vote against legalization no matter what, but others supported prop 19 even though they didn't care about legalization they voted for it for economic reasons. You need those votes.

So how is something good for you and bad for you at the same time? The answer is it is the Law.. Change the Law is the only solution to stop Canna-political-schizophrenia in California.

And you think the way to do that is to pass a law that allows highschool kids to grow and sell bud out of their house? You really think the majority of voters in California will have a favorable reaction to that?

I believe we could absolutely pass a law in California significantly more liberal than prop 19. But that will require serious thought and tact. You aren't showing any conscious effect to appeal to the voters of California. What you are proposing is more like "fuck you voters! This is what I want and if you don't like it too bad!". That's not the right way.

 

[Ernst]

lol. Not brainwashed, just not under the delusion that the people of California are going to vote for legalized street dealing and letting highschool kids grow. You have to understand that this is never going to happen. No chance.

I didn't say that. Street dealing anything is unacceptable yes? Why should allowing me to trade a pound with you or clones or seeds be a crime?
Now if I am out there selling on the corner I have no business licence but if I did and had a Stand I could push out and take back in then maybe that would be okay in some places.

So it is not me that is suggesting street dealing to be legal nor am I saying we should change the no substance on schools grounds rules.. Why even tobacco is illegal on school grounds I believe. And that is old in stores.

Some of your ideas are pretty good. I'm starting to warm up to the idea of a centralized system to prevent dry counties. But there is just no way that voters pass what you've got there. You're not taking into consideration how non-smokers are going to respond to that. You need a majority of voters to pass a law in Cali.

Perhaps that is true but we must fight for what we want and not be capitulating to fear.
We have been raised to accept a lifestyle of hiding because we are deviates from the Moralistic Laws over Cannabis and being busted.
Things will never change until we change them. We must change the law and I am advocating rights for citizens first.. Let the State and Counties deal with business. I'm not trying to pull a rabbit out of the hat like the Prop-19 tried.
I believe that if we offer a simple to understand initiative that aims at freedom for the people we have a prop-215 type of initiative that the voters already approved years ago. It is possible Prop-19 was too "crafty." for most or that most wanted the Hippie to win and not Wallstreet.
I am all for the Hippie winning first and let locals jurisdictions work with business.

Can i be wrong? Yes but I would not be wrong in wanting to legalize for you and me with it. Forget business they have friends. Until we the people have equal rights up and down the State nothing will change.


Think a moment if in the worst Bible-Thumping town I can put up a garden that is defended under the ;law what effect that will have. Why Haters will have no leg to stand on when trying to ruin my life with their hate! I can Sue them for messing with me!

Up until the point we stop the hate we still have a war on Race and Economic classes. Once we have it legalized in a way that is Constitutionally sound we then can look to business and other things like Swazi dagga is now being used to make construction material in Europe and South Africa.

We can turn dry-farming areas into construction material zones!

Under what you proposed I could turn my entire house into a grow house then sell bud out of my house with absolutely no way to tell how much money I'm making. And that's exactly what I would do if that passed.

You can now. The difference is if it was no crime would you use the room in your house for living or gardening?
If it was legal to grow Cannabis and sell it with a business license or it was a crime to sell it with out which will you choose?
Sure perhaps you may have special customers who obtain well grown "elite" strains but if you don't report the income you face income tax issues but if you pay the taxes you are freeman. Which do you chose.

This is not about business this to be about rights for individuals; that I might gift of a basket of veggies and herbs to friends shouldn't be a crime. That my buddy wants to have a pound of my "XYZ" and in exchange is giving me "ABC" that shouldn't be a crime!
Just like a case of Home Brew shared shouldn't be a crime.

Hell If I grow the XYZ good and a friend grows the ABC well we will both have ABC and XYZ for gifts to give for Christmas of Baskets of ABC and XYZ.. Sounds good to me!


So there is a difference between being a private citizen and being in business. Prop-19 blurred that line for many and many on grow sites live in the underground business realm. I am a grower who has not sold in 10 years and am medical!
So I have plenty.. Could make a few bucks except that the local market is flooded so bad that $3 a prerolled joint is too much to ask now I understand.

And if I do anything business wise it will be breeding and seed sales I believe but mostly i will want to putter around breeding not-for-profit and need that 99 to grow things out. We all need that 99 to grow things out.

I think you took the wrong message from that. Everyone would have supported prop 19 with some very minor changes. With these things prop 19 passes easily:

1) exempt medical users completely in a more clear way
2) no exclusive permit system (perhaps a centralized system like you suggest?)
3) release all people in jail convicted of non-violent cannabis charges

With those three minor changes, prop 19 would pass easily. You have to understand the fact that you need the votes non-smokers to pass legalization and not all non-smoking voters are the same. Sure, some of them will vote against legalization no matter what, but others supported prop 19 even though they didn't care about legalization they voted for it for economic reasons. You need those votes.



And you think the way to do that is to pass a law that allows highschool kids to grow and sell bud out of their house? You really think the majority of voters in California will have a favorable reaction to that?

I believe we could absolutely pass a law in California significantly more liberal than prop 19. But that will require serious thought and tact. You aren't showing any conscious effect to appeal to the voters of California. What you are proposing is more like "fuck you voters! This is what I want and if you don't like it too bad!". That's not the right way.

Well we all need to see and think about what we will support next. It's fine and dandy to promote a position. Be us Hot or Cold not luke warm.. No Fence sitters tossing rocks.

You and I will find mutual respect in our dedication to crafting a proposition for 2012 we all will support.

I started a thread on California2012.org.

No Email checks, IP's or worries.

Come one and all to craft an initiative. All the initiatives are linked and the site exists only to facilitate our 2012 elections cycle.

Come and share the URL let us work it out in a central location neutral to all sites.

These threads are all over the grow sites and soon get lost in the flow of posts ..California2012.org has plenty of CPU-search power and unlimited bandwidth let us make good use of it!
We have a;ll these divided groups let us have a focal point with no other goal than to legalize in 2012.

Come pro-cannabis come anti-cannabis be hot or Cold but not luke warm!

 

[The Ruiner]

I like your drive Ernst!