Is the democratic party stupid, blind, clueless or is it based on ideology?
- Thread starter NLXSK1
- Start date
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
70 billion a year projected over 10 years is 700 billion. Get your facts straight.
There is nothing saying that taxes cannot be raised in the future, it is just a horrible idea to raise them right now.
And again, the government does not deserve the money.
You want it paid for? Ok, no more extensions of unemployment insurance. That should save us about 30 billion right there. Half of it is paid for.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
Yes, and they want to extend the bush tax cuts for another 10 year. That's 700 billion. Math is correct. You're supporting adding 700 billion to the defecit so people who are currently accumulating record amounts of wealth can have even more while everyone else can barely pay their bills. Makes perfect sense.
lol. So you want to throw middle class people out on the street so Bill Gates can buy another vacation home. That's real nice.
May I ask why? It certainly has nothing to do with rich people not being able to afford to create jobs. That's proven false by the fact that they have a larger concentration of wealth than they ever have. So why do you want to have middle class families lose their unemployment so they can't pay their mortgages and get throw out on the street so rich people can be even more comfortable?
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
You know what I want Dan?
I want the economy to turn around. I would like to see the government get its hands off regulation and allow the small businesses have some confidence. I would like to see the unemployment rate go down and government revenue increase due to the function of the economy.
A rising tide lifts all boats. I say that if the government gets off the brakes the economy will fix itself. That and massive spending cuts will have the economy and country on a sustainable path out of debt. Otherwise the economy and US dollar will be destroyed by the cancer of debt like a terminal cancer patient.
I want the economy to turn around. I would like to see the government get its hands off regulation and allow the small businesses have some confidence. I would like to see the unemployment rate go down and government revenue increase due to the function of the economy.
A rising tide lifts all boats. I say that if the government gets off the brakes the economy will fix itself. That and massive spending cuts will have the economy and country on a sustainable path out of debt. Otherwise the economy and US dollar will be destroyed by the cancer of debt like a terminal cancer patient.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
Well considering deregulation played a large role in breaking the economy in the first place that doesn't seem like a good idea.
You are saying you want a better economy and lower spending, but you're advocating more of the things that are responsible for breaking the economy in the first place and tax cuts that are not paid for. It's not a very consistent viewpoint IMO.
Claiming to be in favor of a path out of debt is meaningless when you just started a thread to support $700 billion worth of new debt.
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
You keep calling it new debt when it is simply planned debt.
Somehow you believe that the government deserves more money from the rich simply because *they have alot of money* and you wish to ignore the fact that no matter how much they confiscate that if they dont reign in the spending it wont matter.
You believe that tax increases in the middle of a recession somehow actually believing it only benefits millionairs and billionaires and that it is a good thing to confiscate more of their wealth will somehow help the economy recover.
You have not addressed how you believe that the government deserves more money from anybody, you just continue to repeat the mantra that we have big deficits and thus the rich are on the hook to pay for them. It is insanity... Keep demanding more from the producers and keep increasing the benefits for the users in society and you will destroy the American economy.
Somehow you believe that the government deserves more money from the rich simply because *they have alot of money* and you wish to ignore the fact that no matter how much they confiscate that if they dont reign in the spending it wont matter.
You believe that tax increases in the middle of a recession somehow actually believing it only benefits millionairs and billionaires and that it is a good thing to confiscate more of their wealth will somehow help the economy recover.
You have not addressed how you believe that the government deserves more money from anybody, you just continue to repeat the mantra that we have big deficits and thus the rich are on the hook to pay for them. It is insanity... Keep demanding more from the producers and keep increasing the benefits for the users in society and you will destroy the American economy.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
Which is still new debt. Calling it something different doesn't change what it is.
Actually it's because they have more money then they have at any time in our history and have been paying record low taxes for the last 30+ years. It's unprecedented that they do this well and give back so little. The only other time that has come close is right before the great depression.
They benefit greatly from living in America, more than the average person. Why should they not pay for those benefits?
Taxes on the rich are not unfairly high. They are extremely low. You are complaining about something that isn't a real problem.
If these tax cuts helped the economy so much we wouldn't be in a recession. Taxes on the rich are low and the amount of wealth they possess is high. And still the economy is terrible and you are advocating more of the same? Doesn't make sense.
No, it's very sane. The rich are benefiting more than anyone else right now so they can pay a greater share of the burden.
Bill Gates hasn't built a computer since the early 80's. He just collects checks. Microsoft produces. Not Bill Gates. Microsoft doesn't hire people because we cut Bill Gates taxes. Microsoft create jobs because Americans can afford to buy a new computer. Right now they can not.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
I challange every conservative on the board to prove that lower taxes on the rich equals a stronger economy. That directly contradicts everything that has happened in this country in the last 80+ years. The claim that the rich create more jobs because taxes are low is factually incorrect. Our history proves it.
Our economy was at it's strongest when the tax rate on the wealthy was above 70%. It's less than half of that now and through sheer ignorance you guys keep pointing to that as the main problem. That claim is a lie. If you believe this not to be true then explain how it can be true when it's been disproven by our country's history.
Our economy was at it's strongest when the tax rate on the wealthy was above 70%. It's less than half of that now and through sheer ignorance you guys keep pointing to that as the main problem. That claim is a lie. If you believe this not to be true then explain how it can be true when it's been disproven by our country's history.
doc111
Well-Known Member
That's because it hasn't been disproven. Unfortunately, economies are way to complex to point to one thing as the cause for a down one. It is believed by many that regulation is what's killing us. At some point it becomes too much. We can't protect everybody from everything. Every time something bad happens in this country we make some new law which generally makes life for everyone a little bit tougher. When is it enough? When do we stop? Now we have body scanners in airports. What's next? A robot that sticks it's arm up your rectum to make sure there are no bombs hiding up there? Regulation is killing this country! If the powers that be would enforce the ones we already have there would be little need for more new regulations.
londonfog
Well-Known Member
yeah who needs regulation we can always trust big business to do the right think for the consumersThat's because it hasn't been disproven. Unfortunately, economies are way to complex to point to one thing as the cause for a down one. It is believed by many that regulation is what's killing us. At some point it becomes too much. We can't protect everybody from everything. Every time something bad happens in this country we make some new law which generally makes life for everyone a little bit tougher. When is it enough? When do we stop? Now we have body scanners in airports. What's next? A robot that sticks it's arm up your rectum to make sure there are no bombs hiding up there? Regulation is killing this country! If the powers that be would enforce the ones we already have there would be little need for more new regulations.
..
doc111
Well-Known Member
Please show me where I said I want no regulation.yeah who needs regulation we can always trust big business to do the right think for the consumers
newatit2010
Well-Known Member
If you look at the problems it is not the taxes it's not the spending, the problem with the country is we buy every thing that was started making in this country. We have let every company in the USA move their business overseas and pay the bastards to do it. This country has sold out to lower wage countries. WHEN I bought USA made levis they lasts years the china levis fall apart.(don't buy levis any more) We give them gold they give US shit. Start a trade war with china forget imports and build our own. Move your company overseas you had better be able to sell that shit there no imports. WE can fix this country if WE all get the government out of the way. Most of the government is union and that is a problem in our country. Most union members I know hate what the union leaders do but they are stuck union with the big dollars or unemploment. This country needs to get our shit together are WE all will fall. God Bless America And Happy Thanksgiving to all
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
You say that we need to stop outsourcing and then go on to say that we need to get government out of the way.
How do you stop outsourcing with out government? Seems like lack of government interference is the problem there, not the solution. I'm pretty sure it isn't the union who support outsourcing, it's the companies stock holders.
newatit2010
Well-Known Member
I don't think we have had a government in over a hundred years. Even a far back as I can remember a senator or congressman was in office for years and years now I know why kick backs and back room deals.
Unions not the problem BS why do you think the jobs went over seas, a union goes on strike and they can put a company out of business. Do you know a union worker that is real rich, hell no, do you know a union member BOSS that is NOT real rich hell no. Anyway to fix the country some where there has to be changes.
skunky33
Active Member
The American people aren't facing a tax increase the very top 5% of income earners are and they have payed the least ever in taxes, less than Reagan who raised taxes 11 times
People pay the lowest federal taxes to income ratio now than ever in American history.
How is going back to pre-bush taxes a psychological shock?
Did you know Reagan wanted amnesty for illegals?
Palin will never be president.
Serapis
Well-Known Member
Everytime this country has ran into a serious recession/depression, it is because of deregulation.... Allowing deposit banks to become investment banks was Republican deregulation... Look what happened... Again with deregulation, allowing mortgages to be bundled up as securities, another bright idea, as was allowing the same banks to bet via derivatives whether the subprime packages would fail or not....Regulation is killing this country! If the powers that be would enforce the ones we already have there would be little need for more new regulations.
Yeah, the last thing we need is more regulation..
The rich can police themselves.....
ROFLMAO
This is incorrect. The Federal Government passed laws that went against sound economics. The main reason we had this housing bubble is the Federal Government manipulated the free market. They allowed people to purchase something and therefore amass a large debt when it was obvious from past history this would cause prices to rise over normal free market conditions AND the purchasers would not be able to pay the debt. How could they pay? These very same people showed little interest in saving money and making a large down payment in order to pay less in the future. People don't change overnight. The free market knows this.
I don't know what you're reading into his posts but what he's advocating is nothing like the things which were responsible for the horrible mess the economy is in now.
I don't understand why you say it's debt. The long term effects of allowing these taxes to expire, will hurt more than the short term will help. That is a continuing theme when the Federal Government manipulates our economy.
The money in the form of taxes is money not spent as efficiently by the government as it is in the private sector. We know the government workers are compensated at almost twice the free market rate which is a joke since they are less efficient than the private sector is. Don't like the service a company in the private sector supplies, switch companies until you find one that suits you. Don't like the service a government agency gives you, take a number and take a seat. Why should they care as much? They know you have no where else to go. Complaining to a supervisor does little for the exact same reason. And people think unions are overpaid workers. They are pikers compared to government employees.
doc111
Well-Known Member
Well, as a small business owner I can only speak what I know. There are plenty of regulations already which don't get enforced. The more regualtions we put in place the more difficult it becomes for small business to be viable. This business about Bush and republicans deregulating everything isn't even accurate!!!! This has been going on for decades and both parties have played equal roles in this mess. You, just like many others, are trying to put a partisan spin on this mess and it just isn't that simple. This is what always happens whenever there is a recession or a downturn..........the opposing parties start the finger pointing and nothing constructive ever gets done. I never said anything about getting rid of all regulations. Of course we have a need for some regulation but I will ask once again; when is enough, enough? I think we should get some of our facts straigh to begin with.Everytime this country has ran into a serious recession/depression, it is because of deregulation.... Allowing deposit banks to become investment banks was Republican deregulation... Look what happened... Again with deregulation, allowing mortgages to be bundled up as securities, another bright idea, as was allowing the same banks to bet via derivatives whether the subprime packages would fail or not....
Yeah, the last thing we need is more regulation..
The rich can police themselves.....
ROFLMAO
It was Barney Frank (a democrat) who pushed heavily for deregulation of Fannie and Freddie. It was under Clinton that mortgage backed securities really took off. I'm not going to go into blaming the democrats for all of this because it's just not that simple. It was both Republican and Democratic policies for decades which caused our current crisis. I never said anything about the rich policing themselves. Nobody should be policing themselves, least of all the government! Again, I ask anybody to show me where I say anything about doing away with regulation. You can't because I never said it. There are numerous regulations put in place to protect us that aren't being enforced. Do you think it sounds reasonable to write more regulation that will not be enforced? Why not try enforcing the ones we have in place and see how that works out? How about getting rid of some of the risky lending practices which led us into this? Why hasn't the current administration taken action to see to this? It's not even really being talked about. Why is this?
newatit2010
Well-Known Member
Damn the tax cuts take every thing the fucking rich have sell their cars sell their houses sell every thing the bastards have. Even 250,000 and up and you stupid assholes will not even have enough to pay for Oassholes health care. So tell us how the 70 billion is going to save a trillion dollar a year debt????
londonfog
Well-Known Member
Thats easy...it will save on our deficient by not adding to it