28 Hour Day / 14 Hour Photo-period

[MJHuana]

Hi Folks,

I am a relatively inexperienced grower (just getting started again) and I have a few lovelies that I am ready to switch to flower.

Details:

Purple Kush (im told) - bag seed
Soil (MG Moisture Control) - have not started nutes save a bit of extra Mg during veg
area - 5 x 3
lights - CFL - 542 total watts - 30,600 lumens ( 1 central 68w 5100k, 8 42w 5100k and 6 additional 23w 2700k)
Temp - constant 82 while lights on, unknown when lights out
RH - <shrug>, low


Somewhere in my travels I stumbled across an article which discussed enzyme activity and acid production/THC conversion during the dark and light portions of the flowering stage. Unfortunately I cannot find the article to link...but the general overview is that the enzyme processes - Geranyl pyrophosphate and olivetolic acids react to make CBG at night, which is converted during the day into THC carboxylic acid (the good stuff) - start off slowly and ramp up during each period. Meaning, the most acid production and enzyme activity occurs in the final hours of the light and dark cycles, and if those hours are extended then more time is allowed for processes to continue at a very high rate.

I digress...

I have purchased a 7 day digital timer because I could not find a timer that just allowed me to set ON for "x" hours and OFF for "x" hours. I divided the 168 hour week into 12 - 14hour ON/OFF periods. The plants have been vegging under 24/7 light...so I am not concerned about any shock related to a change in "day length".

What I hypothesize is that given the additional 2hours of both light and dark periods during flower (but retaining a 1:1 ratio) is that:

- the plants and flowers will grow a bit larger due to extended light times encouraging some vegetative growth

- the buds will mature quicker given the longer dark cycles

- the potency will be increased due to the 2 additional hours of both light and dark when acid productions in the plant are at their highest

- keeping a 1:1 ratio during flowering will not result in any ill effects

I am by no means an expert...and would certainly appreciate any feedback.

If anyone has tried this type of schedule their input would be great...I searched the boards but could not find any reference to 14/14 for flowering.

Thanks a bunch

 

[pilgram]

OUCH! my head hurts now....lol

 

[legallyflying]

whew.. My understanding is that CBD is the precursor to THC not CBG. From another post on the forum...https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/88272-floral-maturation-cannabinoid-biosynthesis.html

Conversion of CBD acid to THC acid is the single most important reaction with respect to psychoactivity in the entire pathway and the one about which we know the most. Personal communication with Raphael Mechoulam has centered around the role of ultraviolet light in the bio-synthesis of THC acids and minor cannabinoids. In the laboratory, Mechoulam has converted CBD acid to THC acids by exposing a solution of CBD acid in n-hexane to ultraviolet light of 235-285 nm. for up to 48 hours. This reaction uses atmospheric oxygen molecules (02) and is irreversible; however, the yield of the conversion is only about 15% THC acid, and some of the products formed in the laboratory experiment do not occur in living specimens. Four types of isomers or slight variations of THC acids (THCA) exist. Both Delta1-THCA and Delta6-THCA are naturally occurring isomers of THCA resulting from the positions of the double bond on carbon 1 or carbon 6 of the geraniol portion of the molecule They have approximately the same psychoactive effect; however, Delta1-THC acid is about four times more prevalent than Delta6-THC acid in most strains. Also Alpha and Beta forms of Delta1-THC acid and Delta6-THC acid exist as a result of the juxtaposition of the hydrogen (H) and the carboxyl (COOH) groups on the olivetolic acid portion of the molecule It is suspected that the psychoactivity of the a and ~ forms of the THC acid molecules probably does not vary, but this has not been proven. Subtle differences in psychoactivity not detected in animals by laboratory instruments, but often discussed by marijuana aficionados, could be attributed to additional synergistic effects of the four isomers of THC acid. Total psycho-activity is attributed to the ratios of the primary cannabinoids of CBC, CBD, THC and CBN; the ratios of methyl, propyl, and pentyl homologs of these cannabinoids; and the isomeric variations of each of these cannabinoids. Myriad subtle combinations are sure to exist. Also, terpenoid and other aromatic compounds might suppress or potentiate the effects of THCs

The thought of implementing some torturous light schedule in the hopes of inducing more THC production is probably time wasted. The thought of it gives me the heebee geebees. or is it the CBGbees

start at 13 hours of dark and slowly reduce in the last week to 10 hours.

 

[MJHuana]

Yes you are certainly correct...I was a bit unclear as to the whole process in my original post:

-acids to CBG (at night)
-CBG to CBD and CBC (at night)
-CBD to THC (under light)

I left out the sub-process for the sake of brevity...but you could assume that more CBG = more CBD/CBN = more THC (given enough time to process)

from wiki:

"Cannabinoid production starts when an enzyme causes geranyl pyrophosphate and olivetolic acid to combine and form CBG. Next, CBG is independently converted to either CBD or CBC by two separate synthase enzymes. CBD is then enzymatically cyclized to THC."

I guess the biggest question is...more potent or not...how torturous would a 28 hour day be to a plant that has no clue a day is 24 hours long (given its personal history of constant light)?

There seems to be a lot of personal preference when it comes to light adjustment during flowering (11/13, 12/12, 13/11, 10/14 at end, etc.) to produce larger buds, more trichomes, or ripen faster. I'm just wondering if extending both times wouldn't capture some of the benefits of each without any of the drawbacks...given that the light/dark ratio is equal to 12/12.

I have mates growing the same stuff (certainly under somewhat different conditions), but at least I'll have some basis for comparison before a second grow.

Thanks for the reply

 

[legallyflying]

A plant had a certain genetic predispotition based on its evolution in a particular environment. That environment does not include kludgy light cycles. Or 24 hrs of light for that matter. I aplaude your search for better results but I'm not so sute your barking up the right tree.

 

[MuntantLizzard]

Im sure he is.
:"Exact Science is not an exact science"

 

[lowerarchy]

What I hypothesize is that given the additional 2hours of both light and dark periods during flower (but retaining a 1:1 ratio) is that:

- the plants and flowers will grow a bit larger due to extended light times encouraging some vegetative growth

- the buds will mature quicker given the longer dark cycles

- the potency will be increased due to the 2 additional hours of both light and dark when acid productions in the plant are at their highest

- keeping a 1:1 ratio during flowering will not result in any ill effects

Hey, interesting idea. While I don't know enough about the botany/chemistry of the process to add anything there, I will say that distinguishing all but your last hypothesis (that it won't make your growroom blow up) will be difficult without a control. Actually, I'd say it'll be pretty likely that it will be impossible to definitively say what the cause of any unexpected vigor or potency without a control, especially growing from unknown genetics that you have little experience with. Any chance you could get another timer and split your room?

At any rate, keep us posted - good to see people out there experimenting and sharing ideas.

 

[lowerarchy]

Also I'd like to add that if even one of these things turn out to be true (quicker maturity, increased potency or higher yield) it will be well worth experimenting with, potentially offsetting the huge pain in the ass it would be with a larger (5kw - 10kw or thereabouts) flowering room where you've got a lot of work to do in there all the time and the day isn't synched to the 24 hour clock. I.e., pruning a 5kw perpetual SOG at 5:00am one day, 9:00am the next, 1:00pm the next, etc... not to mention setting a million timers for a hydro op...

 

[teddiekgb123]

Definitely an interesting topic. My concern would be that the plant might be near the point of being confused on whether it's in veg or flower with a 14 hr. day cycle. To my understanding, plants actually know when to flower based on their metabolism. So you can have a longer night cycle but if the light cycle is too long it may raise the plants metabolism too high and make it want to veg again. 14 hrs. probably isn't enough to do that, but it's close.

 

[MuntantLizzard]

Godspeed !!

 

[MJHuana]

Agreed that the "experiment" isn't much of one without a control...however the stuff I'm growing my "guy" grows as well...so I have alot of experience smoking the final product he grows under a more standard lighting schedule. Granted...other environmental factors will be different so it is not an actual control...but still a basis for comparison.

* Talking out of my ass and trusting the internet disclaimer:

My web research all seems to indicate that 14 is kinda the "magic number" of light hours you can give without the plant thinkings it is still vegging. No evidence to back this up...but it seems like I see "anything more than 14 hours" or "with more than 14 hours of light" when people talk about making the plant veg...hence the 14/14 day. Even still...wouldn't a little bit of vegetative growth during flowering be good...as long as the night cycle is still long enough for the plant to know it's flowering time. Buds form at new growth sites, so it would stand to reason that more new growth (especially during the initial flowering spurt) would mean more places for buds to form...hence more buds...right?

Splitting the room would be nice but is not a viable option now given where I am in this grow...but I plan to reconfigure my room after this one so I can set up separate Veg and flower areas...so a side by side test next time around might be possible.

I hoped that maybe someone had done this before. I will certainly keep you up to speed on results and try next go around to do a side by side comparison, growing one plant on 12/12 and another on 14/14.

Thanks for the replies!

 

[Killface]

I flower in a 14/10 light cycle...Things run just smoothly.

 

[steverthebeaver81]

I would say try it! From my readings, bloom is induced with 12 hours of darkness, and seein as your using 14, I dont see why it would be a problem. I definitely would like to see the results as well, very interesting...

 

[i8urbabi]

it could take a couple gens of a strain to workout correctly. Id def. try it if i had the options. I dont see why it couldnt work. if at most it would hermie then you could use those seeds to further the experiment since they already have a dose of whats in store for them. more of a theory i just thought of but seems practical lol. since the plant already has been bred to 12.12, it could take some time to work out some kinks but IMO i think you could be onto something. just gonna take some time.

 

[elduece]

I did a five day week in my garden using 33.6 hrs per day on my first ever and second harvests.
19 hrs light and 14.6 dark and vice versa(comparison results were similar as far I'm concerned). A 34hr+ precision timer was needed. They're expensive. I can say now that the plants won't ripen any quicker but I estimate the weight would be increased little as 10-15% comparing to my subsequent grows to present date. I had to stop using that timer, it was hell on my electricity bill due to being on during day time rates/temperatures and watering was required every-"day". Be prepare to use alot of nutes too. If you think it's worth the ~15%, go for it.

 

[elduece]

Maybe back up my claim. These were grown with 400 total watts of light(HID and cfls) using that timer. I grew 7 of these plants during that summer.

 

[teddiekgb123]

I did a five day week in my garden using 33.6 hrs per day on my first ever and second harvests.
19 hrs light and 14.6 dark and vice versa(comparison results were similar as far I'm concerned). A 34hr+ precision timer was needed. They're expensive. I can say now that the plants won't ripen any quicker but I estimate the weight would be increased little as 10-15% comparing to my subsequent grows to present date. I had to stop using that timer, it was hell on my electricity bill due to being on during day time rates/temperatures and watering was required every-"day". Be prepare to use alot of nutes too. If you think it's worth the ~15%, go for it.

Wow...19hrs. light during flower. Kinda blows my little theory out of the water. I like the name and avatar by the way.

 

[lowerarchy]

Surely there must be some point where everything would get completely fucked up if you kept increasing the day/night lengths. I know the dark period induces flowering, not the day length, but I wonder how far you could stretch it - 24/24? 48/48?

Elduece: Your day/night is pretty legitimate (lights on 56% of the time, pretty damn close to normal flowering schedule) but why'd you decide on a 5-day week? Just for the fuck of it?

 

[elduece]

Surely there must be some point where everything would get completely fucked up if you kept increasing the day/night lengths. I know the dark period induces flowering, not the day length, but I wonder how far you could stretch it - 24/24? 48/48?

Elduece: Your day/night is pretty legitimate (lights on 56% of the time, pretty damn close to normal flowering schedule) but why'd you decide on a 5-day week? Just for the fuck of it?

I've always been a proponent of eliminating mondays/tuesdays from our calendar at the same time I was coordinating with planet Ito's prime meridian light cycle.