Obama Socialism deemed UNCONSTITUTIONAL BY US COURT!!!! America F*ck Ya!

Big P

Well-Known Member
BLOW TO O: JUDGE RULES GOV'T CAN'T MANDATE CITIZENS BUY HEALTH CARE...
Cantor Calls for Direct Appeal to Supreme Court...
POLL: Support For Obamacare Hits New Low...

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[SIZE=+7][FONT=ARIAL,VERDANA,HELVETICA]UNCONSTITUTIONAL [/FONT][/SIZE]



U.S. Health-Care Law's Mandate Thrown Out by Judge

By Tom Schoenberg and Margaret Cronin Fisk - Dec 13, 2010

The Obama administration’s requirement that most citizens maintain minimum health coverage as part of a broad overhaul of the industry is unconstitutional, a federal judge ruled, striking down the linchpin of the plan.
U.S. District Judge Henry Hudson in Richmond, Virginia, today said that the requirement in President Barack Obama’s health-care legislation goes beyond Congress’s powers to regulate interstate commerce. While severing the coverage mandate, which is set to become effective in 2014, Hudson didn’t address other provisions such as expanding Medicaid.

“At its core, this dispute is not simply about regulating the business of insurance -- or crafting a scheme of universal health insurance coverage -- it’s about an individual’s right to choose to participate,” wrote Hudson, who was appointed by President George W. Bush in 2002.

The ruling is the government’s first loss in a series of challenges to the law mounted in federal courts in Virginia, Michigan and Florida, where 20 states have joined an effort to have the statute thrown out. Constitutional scholars said unless Congress changes the law, its fate on appeal will probably be determined by the U.S. Supreme Court.

‘Lot of Activity’

“There’s a lot of activity focused now on alternatives to the mandate,” said Dan Mendelson, chief executive officer of Avalere Health, a Washington-based consulting firm. One option might be to provide access to all people, even ones with pre- existing conditions, to buy insurance and limit the times they could sign up.
“It’s using a carrot instead of a stick,” Mendelson said in a telephone interview before the ruling.

Robert Zirkelbach, a spokesman for America’s Health Insurance Plans, a health insurers’ Washington lobby group, declined to comment on the record about whether insurers have discussed alternatives with the administration or whether a policy could be designed to replace the effects of losing the individual mandate.
Hudson didn’t stop the government from moving ahead with implementing the law while an appeal is pending.
Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli, who brought the suit, said in a statement he was “gratified we prevailed.”

“This won’t be the final round, as this will ultimately be decided by the Supreme Court, but today is a critical milestone in the protection of the Constitution,” he said.
Republican Senator Orrin Hatch of Utah called the decision “a great day for liberty. Congress must obey the Constitution rather than make it up as we go along,” he said in a statement.

Appeals Court Hearing

The government may ask the judge to reconsider his ruling, or seek a hearing by the U.S. Court of Appeals in Richmond. Two opinions from federal judges in Virginia and in Michigan have sided with the government on the law’s constitutionality.

Health plans rose as much as 2.7 percent after the ruling was announced, and then fell back. The Standard & Poor’s Managed Health Index of six insurers was up less than 1 percent at 1:44 p.m. in New York trading, led by a 1.1 percent increase for UnitedHealth Group Inc. of Minnetonka, Minnesota, the largest medical plan by sales. Aetna Inc. of Hartford, Connecticut, gained 1 percent.
White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said at a press briefing today said that the administration still believes the legislation is constitutional.
‘Different Decision’

“One hundred and fifteen miles away, a different judge in a different district rendered a different decision,” Gibbs said, referring to a Nov. 30 ruling by U.S. District Judge Norman Moon, in Lynchburg, Virginia. That decision upheld the act in a lawsuit brought by the evangelical Liberty University and five individuals.
“Our belief is that when all the legal wrangling is done, this is something that will be upheld,” Gibbs said.

Mark Hall, a professor at Wake Forest University School of Law, who serves on a federal advisory board set up to help implement the law, said that while the case is certain to go to the high court, the outcome is unpredictable.

“Some prominent conservative justices will go against it, but there is no serious indication that every single one will go against it,” he said in an interview before Hudson’s decision.
Cornerstone of Overhaul

Justice Department lawyers in court papers called the mandatory insurance measure the cornerstone of the overhaul as it pushes younger and healthier people into the insurance pool. Through the individual mandate and expansions of Medicaid and employer-based coverage, the law is estimated to provide 32 million more people with coverage by 2019, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

The law bars insurers from denying coverage to people who are sick or imposing lifetime limits on costs. Without payments generated from the required policies, the health-insurance market would face extinction, the government argued. The mandate falls under Congress’s power to regulate interstate commerce as $43 billion in unpaid medical bills are absorbed by the market each year, U.S. lawyers said.
“If people aren’t compelled to buy insurance and the insurance carriers are compelled to offer it, then many will simply wait until they are sick,” said John Sullivan, an analyst at Leerink Swann & Co. in Boston. “If the Supreme Court were to rule this law unconstitutional, then it would be back to the drawing board. You can’t just pull this part out of it.”

Virginia’s suit claimed Congress has only the power to tax, not to force participation in a market. Its case defended the Virginia Health Care Freedom Act, a state law barring compulsory purchase of health insurance by its citizens.

Florida Suit

Florida, joined by 19 other states, filed a separate lawsuit challenging the law’s constitutionality and arguing it puts too big a burden on its budget by expanding state-run Medicaid programs. U.S. District Judge Roger Vinson in Pensacola, Florida, is slated to hear arguments Dec. 16 on motions by each side to decide the case in their favor.

The Florida case, involving 20 states, has drawn the most attention from outside interests. The states are backed by 63 members of the U.S. House of Representatives, mostly Republicans, in a court brief while incoming House of Representatives Speaker John Boehner, an Ohio Republican, and 32 Republican U.S. senators separately submitted papers arguing the legislation represents an unconstitutional expansion of congressional legislative powers.

Florida’s Attorney General Bill McCollum said he is hopeful Vinson will strike down the individual mandate and halt the expansion of Medicaid.
“The implementation of this law could add more than 1.9 million Floridians to the Medicaid program, a tremendous financial burden on our state at a time when our budget has no room for extra expenses,” he said in a statement today.

Economics Scholars

A group of about 40 economics scholars, including Nobel laureates Eric Maskin, George Akerlof and Kenneth Arrow, filed their own brief, arguing in favor of the legislative package.
The challenges brought by the attorneys general in Virginia and Florida are the most likely to reach the Supreme Court, according to health-care and constitutional lawyers.
“The Florida and Virginia cases have both been well briefed and well drafted,” said Peter Urbanowicz, a managing director at Alvarez & Marsal Healthcare Industry Group in Washington.
The case is Commonwealth of Virginia v. Sebelius, 10-cv- 00188, U.S. District Court, Eastern District of Virginia (Richmond).
To contact the reporters on this story: Tom Schoenberg in Richmond, Virginia, federal court at [email protected]; Margaret Cronin Fisk in Southfield, Michigan, at [email protected].
To contact the editor responsible for this story: David E. Rovella at [email protected].
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
not a surprise, considering the financial ties between the ag who brought suit and the judge who issued the ruling. we'll see what the scotus says.

The federal judge set to issue one of the first decisions on the Obama administration's health care law has financial ties to both the attorney general who is challenging the law and to a powerhouse conservative law firm whose clients include prominent Republican officials and critics of reform.
This week, District Court Judge Henry E. Hudson is likely to render a procedural verdict on the Virginia Attorney General's lawsuit which contends that the federal health care overhaul is unconstitutional. The Bush appointee has been hearing oral arguments in his Richmond courtroom dating back to March.
and, do tell....where is the socialism? i get the feeling that you do not know what the word means since you used it in reference to a healthcare system run by private insurers :roll: genius.
 

Big P

Well-Known Member
so you agree the government should fine me for not buying thier crappy healthcare? so basically im not a free man since i gotta pay the government a fee to exist.
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
The judge got it right. The federal government has used the commerce clause to extend its power way beyond what was intended.

They were trying to force everybody to buy a product whether they needed it or not. It is about liberty and choice, not healthcare.

If the federal government could force you to buy health insurance they could force you to buy anything.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
so you agree the government should fine me for not buying thier crappy healthcare? so basically im not a free man since i gotta pay the government a fee to exist.
you poor confused soul, you.

you still never explained to me where the socialism is.:blsmoke:

why don't you answer me that and defend your original assertion before trying to become a moving target.

as far as your NEW objection goes, you are free to leave anytime, so no one is forcing you to stay here and buy anything. but when you can afford health insurance and choose not to buy it, you are forcing responsible people like me to foot your bills every single time we seek medical care. universal care can not work any other way. check around at all the countries that protect all their citizens yet pay less. so yes, i am all for a fine for citizens that CAN afford health care but decline it, sending their costs through the system. btw, you would be buying private insurance, not government insurance. and crappy? all i heard throughout the whole health care debate was how great, not crappy, our health care was. at least be consistent, dude.

but back to my original question....WHAT SOCIALISM?
 

thedoc08

New Member
The first thing I'd like to say is this thread just may show you fine folks why I don't typically argue with libtards. Moving on...

as far as your NEW objection goes, you are free to leave anytime, so no one is forcing you to stay here and buy anything.
Why am I not surprised that your first sentence is beyond absurd? I'm not even going to put anything subjective in my response to this one, because it's really objectively simple. Do you define "a free country" as one you are free to leave at any time? If so, you are just as ignorant as the rest of your post makes you sound.

but when you can afford health insurance and choose not to buy it, you are forcing responsible people like me to foot your bills every single time we seek medical care.
This is an even dumber statement than your last. With health insurance, every time you seek medical care, you pay a deductible. That deductible varies based on your premium, not due to Joe Shmo stiffing the hospital for 50k.


universal care can not work any other way. check around at all the countries that protect all their citizens yet pay less.
And check the tax rates of those countries. No thanks, I'd rather not be a socialist eurofag.


so yes, i am all for a fine for citizens that CAN afford health care but decline it, sending their costs through the system.
Obviously you are all for it. You are one of the few remaining sheep who haven't turned their back to br0bama yet, but look around...your liberal friends are starting to see the light. Pretty soon you will be all alone in the camp that strokes br0bama off, agrees with everything he says and does, and regard him as your lord and savior. It's pathetic.



And you have a nice day.


p.s. chalk one up for the good guys.
 

doc111

Well-Known Member
The judge got it right. The federal government has used the commerce clause to extend its power way beyond what was intended.

They were trying to force everybody to buy a product whether they needed it or not. It is about liberty and choice, not healthcare.

If the federal government could force you to buy health insurance they could force you to buy anything.
Thank You!!!! This concerns me and I honestly cannot for the life of me understand why this doesn't concern everyone! Oh that's right! The government only has our best interest in mind. There could never, ever be a person or perhaps a small group that could come to power and use this type of power in a nefarious way. It is certainly a dangerous precedent..........if the supreme court doesn't do it's job and rule it unconstitutional. :evil:
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
This is an even dumber statement than your last. With health insurance, every time you seek medical care, you pay a deductible. That deductible varies based on your premium, not due to Joe Shmo stiffing the hospital for 50k.
who absorbs the loss then? the debt fairy?

nope. responsible people pay for the irresponsible. if you think that cost gets absorbed rather than passed on to the end consumer, you are deluded.

socialist eurofag
you must be at least 18 years of age to use this website. please at least act like it.

You are one of the few remaining sheep who haven't turned their back to br0bama yet, but look around...your liberal friends are starting to see the light. Pretty soon you will be all alone in the camp that strokes br0bama off, agrees with everything he says and does, and regard him as your lord and savior. It's pathetic.
you must be an internet psychic! just the other day i was all like, i love obama, he is my lord and savior, i agree with everything he says and does and i wish i could give him a good hj as a thanks for appeasing my nature as a sheep!

baaah! baaah!

cleo.jpg

this probably does belong in politics, but i am having fun :)
 

Big P

Well-Known Member
Comon buck u think we are stupid? Do u for one min think they want universal heathcare and a public option because they actually care about poor peoples health?


Hell no that aint true big guy,

They know people like me who pay for thier health insurance through thier job are not gonna sit there and pay more when they can just get on the public option and pay less,

Eventually every person in america will be at the changing whims of the governenment, they will have full control over everyones healthcare because employers will stop providing it, then they can have all the sheep voting for them in lockstep for fear of losing thier health care, then after we are all dead and our kids are voting they will have some other asshole comup like obama and finally clench the deal creating a huge public option that they are dieing to ensnare us with

SOCIALISM yes dont act like its not what they are building the foundation for hear big guy

They hate capitolism and love socialistic policies, and when we are all dead, its people like u who will be blamed for american long dark fall into socialism,

So yes obama socialism can go to hell and take him with it
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
You can avoid plenty of Hospital and doctor visits by living a healthy lifestyle. Lose Weight and stop smoking people, you will save millions of lives that way. How many lives will be saved by free health care you have to pay for?
 

JayTrinity

Active Member
I had a foot x-ray and like a fool I went to a hospital.
$4,000 for one half hour for one X-ray!

Half the time the Dr was chatting with the nurse.

I never paid and they billed the Government the full amount.

The system is rigged with so many scams, cash payers pay near double for the same service!
This hurt my life and my credit but who would pay $8000 an hour for hospital services?
 

thedoc08

New Member
As a typical liberal response, you left one point worth responding to.

who absorbs the loss then? the debt fairy?

nope. responsible people pay for the irresponsible. if you think that cost gets absorbed rather than passed on to the end consumer, you are deluded.
The hospital absorbs that loss then indirectly passes it on to health insurers... When someone without insurance or a means to pay for an operation has one and cannot pay, they either file for bankruptcy or like one of my poor friends, simply ignore the hospital bill. This risk of doing business for the hospital drives up the cost of procedures to account for losses incurred due to the previously mentioned scenario. The increase in cost of medical care is reflected in your premium, and not paid for every time you seek medical care as you previously stated.

Now when everyone is socialistically insured, the cost of procedures wont go down, because face it, doctors and hospitals love money. The cost of these procedures is poorly, if at all, regulated. Now that we've established that, we can infer that the cost of health care won't go down simply because more people are insured.

If you want to reduce the cost of health care, limit malpractice lawsuits to gross negligence.

I personally don't have health insurance, but I'm Italian and don't need it. I've never been sick in my life, and don't intend on getting sick. For everyone else that doesn't have or want coverage, I'd highly recommend becoming Italian.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
...they will have full control over everyones healthcare...then they can have all the sheep voting for them in lockstep for fear of losing thier health care...its people like u who will be blamed for american long dark fall into socialism...obama socialism can go to hell and take him with it
ummm, so i see here that you admit that the reforms passed do not qualify as socialism.

so the title of this thread should read...

"Obama capitalism deemed CONSTITUTIONAL BY 2 OUT OF 3 COURTS!!!!"

...as that would be the non-hyperbolic, honest, and factual way of stating the events to date.

you know who you remind me of?

this guy...

[video=youtube;bgec9WX21ik]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgec9WX21ik&feature=related[/video]
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
typical liberal response
your response to my response is a typical right winger response :razz:

The increase in cost of medical care is reflected in your premium, and not paid for every time you seek medical care as you previously stated.
so what you are saying is the extra cost that the uninsured put on the system is passed on to the insured. well gee, we are in complete agreement then.

and since you pay premiums when you are using your insurance and even when you are not, then not only is the extra cost reflected every time you seek medical care, it is reflected even when you don't seek medical care, since you have to pay your premium anyway. thanks for strengthening my case :)

The cost of these procedures is poorly, if at all, regulated.
you raise a good point. i would love to see our government have the ability to negotiate the costs of procedures on an annual basis, just like all the other countries that are able to insure all of their citizens at lower costs than we have to insure only some of our citizens.

If you want to reduce the cost of health care, limit malpractice lawsuits to gross negligence.
it is a fine idea, but even it it were implemented it would not affect any significant change to the long term rising costs of our health care system. it would lower the curve on the y-axis, but it would not stop the curve from bending upwards, in other words.
 

Luger187

Well-Known Member
I had a foot x-ray and like a fool I went to a hospital.
$4,000 for one half hour for one X-ray!

Half the time the Dr was chatting with the nurse.

I never paid and they billed the Government the full amount.

The system is rigged with so many scams, cash payers pay near double for the same service!
This hurt my life and my credit but who would pay $8000 an hour for hospital services?
situations like this happen all the time... too much money for some simple procedure.

my gf was having a pulmonary embolism, and they made her sit in the waiting room for 4+ hours. finally they took her in, and found out she was about to die. EVERY DAY for the next year, she had to wake up at 6am and go to the hospital. they would take some blood(a pint i guess), and test it to see how much meds she should take that day. she was billed for everything, inluding paying 20 bucks every day just to get into the blood tests. plus test fees, dr fees, etc.

yesterday she went in with stomach pains. the dr didnt even do ANY tests. she said its gastritis because she is overweight and left. thats it. she paid 20 bucks for that?! these drs dont go to schooling for many years to learn how to guess.

its a big money scam now. not many out there are actually interested in healing the sick.
 
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