Supplemental Lighting Question

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ocknight949

Member
What's your guys take on adding supplemental LEDs to your HPS grow rooms?

Current Base: 4x6 tent, 2 600 HPS (air cooled), Co2, Dehumidifier, Iceboxes for A/C (72 night, 85 day), Sealed Room, 6 Plants.

I'm trying to find more data on the new Kessil product being distributed by Hydrofarm. I'm considering mounting 2 of these units on the sides of each HPS (4 total).

To be brutally honest I'm not buying into the LED hype; but if any of the experts here have some decent data relating to supplemental LED's I may take the gamble.
 
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dontforget

Member
Im sure light movers or Light Emitting Diodes would work fine. Of course the LEDs will most likely add light from a different spectrum than the HPS is emiting. I think warmer light and cooler light, while the HPS will be the Middle light. I have seen a guy even use christmas lights, red and blue.
 
phyzix

phyzix

Well-Known Member
dontforget said:
Im sure light movers or Light Emitting Diodes would work fine. Of course the LEDs will most likely add light from a different spectrum than the HPS is emiting. I think warmer light and cooler light, while the HPS will be the Middle light. I have seen a guy even use christmas lights, red and blue.
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I believe Christmas lights are more of a novelty than an actual way to provide usable light for plants.
 
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gobbly

Well-Known Member
kinda expensive, if you have the money to throw around at supplemental led then why aren't you just using them all over? Anyway, if you do have the money to blow on them and want the supplemental light they would be great. Just don't get the cheap crap. Do your research and buy quality.
 
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gobbly

Well-Known Member
I don't really get what you are asking.

You won't find wavelength matched christmas lights, nor will you find them with optics with will penetrate worth a crap...

Anyway, led is not for you... If you're looking for christmas lights you're not anywhere near ready to lay down a few hundred on a single supplemental light. Go spend $30 on some cheap CFL fixtures and some bulbs.

the led replacement for the 400w hid that cost $250-300 is going to run you $1000+. This is not some super duper game changing technology, it's a huge investment for reduced heat, half the power consumption, and the ability to tailor finite wavelengths. If those benefits are worth hundreds of dollars to you, then by all means, go led.

Haight (think that's the spelling), cree, and kessil are good if you're serious about led.
 
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ocknight949

Member
gobbly said:
I don't really get what you are asking.

You won't find wavelength matched christmas lights, nor will you find them with optics with will penetrate worth a crap...

Anyway, led is not for you... If you're looking for christmas lights you're not anywhere near ready to lay down a few hundred on a single supplemental light. Go spend $30 on some cheap CFL fixtures and some bulbs.

the led replacement for the 400w hid that cost $250-300 is going to run you $1000+. This is not some super duper game changing technology, it's a huge investment for reduced heat, half the power consumption, and the ability to tailor finite wavelengths. If those benefits are worth hundreds of dollars to you, then by all means, go led.

Haight (think that's the spelling), cree, and kessil are good if you're serious about led.
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I was joking with my reply to the x-mas light reference.

If it was a $200 test I wouldn't be asking questions. I'm prepared to spend a couple grand here if anyone had solid data.
 
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gobbly

Well-Known Member
ocknight949 said:
I was joking with my reply to the x-mas light reference.

If it was a $200 test I wouldn't be asking questions. I'm prepared to spend a couple grand here if anyone had solid data.
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rofl, apologies, wish we could get the tone of voice into chat, or I was better at recognizing jokes :)

so here's the thing. The wattage of your diodes determines the total light output. The optics determine how that light output is directed. Optics will be rated by degrees representing the field which they focus the diode's lights to. This is one of the most misunderstood elements in LED. That 3w led might sound awesome, but if it's backed by 60-90 degree optics it won't penetrate worth a damn. The 1w led with narrow optics will penetrate like mad, but you have to have a lot of them in your array to get the distribution you need to grow. A little trig and algebra and you can actually determine the precise light distribution and penetration. In short knowing the wattage isn't helpful unless you know the specs on the optics.

there is also a huge range of manufacturers for these components, and the range in quality varies dramatically. My favorite component manufacturer is Cree, and their components are used in many of the top led brands. There are others though, kessil is one I keep hearing good things about.

Another thing that is commonly misunderstood (and relates to the article you linked) is spectrum. There are 4 peaks you can stimulate photosynthesis in. Though plants can live with light in the range of any of these peaks, the way it grows can vary. This is most important in veg, and you really would benefit from led's which hit all four peaks, with 60% shifted toward the red peaks and 40% toward blue. In flower it matters much less, as growth becomes more determined by genetics, and this is when you will find people restricting spectrum to the red peaks (HPS ranges). I still am a fan of hitting all 4 peaks in flower, but great results can be found either way. Something handy is to look at what are called PAR ratings. These are similar to lumen ratings, but instead of measuring the spectrum that people see (lumens), PAR measures the spectrum which plants 'see'. It stands for photosynthetic active radiation, and par ratings correlate directly to the light usable by plants. The higher the par, the more light is available for making sugars, and light in the end is all about making sugar.

Hope that gives you a good start. It's a complicated subject, and if you don't do your homework you won't be satisfied with what you choose. If you do your homework, set a proper budget, and buy quality, you will be quite happy with your LED's.
 
Lil Czr

Lil Czr

Well-Known Member
You could invest a fraction of the LED money in a bunch of CFLs for side lighting and get the same results.
 
Hudsonvalley82

Hudsonvalley82

Well-Known Member
I would recommend away from kessil right now. 35W for 250 bucks? maybe for $125. Go find a 240 watt, or 180 watt led light, you can pick up some good ones for like 260 bucks (less for the 180W). They have multiple spectra (including UV), a much wider foot print, and are fantastic to use as an supplement (as I do). I have a 500W LED (3w x 168 diodes) helping out a 1000W HPS. I Love the results so far. I can't go all LED cuz I need the HID for heat (why spend watts on a heater, when you can get a light that heats?). Don't go crazy over name brand LEDs, just take a good look around, and you will begin to be able to sort out the good from the bad. I own a blackstar led light, (ebay, amazon, and they have a website). I thought they were shady at first cuz their prices were low. I saw them in person to see the lights in action first, and was satisfied. I have no idea how a light mover will do, it may be the answer, but if you are going to spend $500, don't settle for 70 watts of output. The Kessils are awesome, but they have no competition, which may play into the high cost of their technology and product. The technology is there. As for CFL's, which will work just fine for side lighting, but consider that LEDs last longer, put out more usable light in a focused direction, and offer UV for some extra crust, plus little heat output which may be an issue in a tent. If you are just looking for side lighting, get CFL, if you are looking to hook up your grow tent, check out your LED options. Like I said, check out Blackstar LED along with Ledgrowlightsdirect.com, Haight solid state, and such. Haight and Kessil are over kill for supplemental lighting IMHO, but they are really cool.

Shameless self promotion: If you want to see a newb grow with a supplemental LED check out my grow (almost 4 weeks in flower). If you like what you see: jump on an LED...If you don't like it: I wasted 500 bucks on an LED light.

Just to preempt LED haters: I am not a sales person, spokesman, marketing representative, or affiliated in any way to any brand, technology, or anything, I just like what I bought, and want to help others as members on this forum helped me. And I actually have a grow albeit my first.
 
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ocknight949

Member
Hudsonvalley: I follow you with possibly getting a larger unit. I was looking at the stealth units earlier today. In regards to spectrum I know the kessil have 35W of a very specific light wave (you pick from 4 models). The 180W light may actually have less of that specific wave so trying to make sure I do my research. 600w Stealth = $1500 that would buy 6 Kessil units (210w).

FYI If I got the Kessil setup I'd install 6 units - 2 Magenta's (base) and 4 RED's.

I found another guy on here that has a setup very similar to mine.
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/384835-swiftgrow-journal.html

I'm subscribing to your thread as well.

I really do appreciate everyone's input.
 
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gobbly

Well-Known Member
ocknight949 said:
Hudsonvalley: I follow you with possibly getting a larger unit. I was looking at the stealth units earlier today. In regards to spectrum I know the kessil have 35W of a very specific light wave (you pick from 4 models). The 180W light may actually have less of that specific wave so trying to make sure I do my research. 600w Stealth = $1500 that would buy 6 Kessil units (210w).

FYI If I got the Kessil setup I'd install 6 units - 2 Magenta's (base) and 4 RED's.

I found another guy on here that has a setup very similar to mine.
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/384835-swiftgrow-journal.html

I'm subscribing to your thread as well.

I really do appreciate everyone's input.
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Those stealth led's are very hot (as in good :D), certainly worth serious consideration :)
 
Hudsonvalley82

Hudsonvalley82

Well-Known Member
For 500 bucks I'd go for a haight solid state.
This dude has a good grow (he sells them too btw) but his grow is impressive.
https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/385595-led-grow-siiiiick-haight-solid-10.html

Im a cheap bastard, and I bought a cheap, but highly effective, 3W light. I think Haight deals with 5w or 6w diodes. This is my LED supplement:
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-500w-Blackstar-LED-Grow-light-3w-Flowering-LEDs-/270658750599?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0484c887
Blackstar (gotham hydroponics) products:
http://stores.ebay.com/gothamhydroponics/LED-Grow-Lights-/_i.html?_fsub=2502304018&_sid=122824148&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

Haight Solid State:
http://shop.haightsolidstate.com/

LED grow lights direct:
http://www.ledgrowlightsdirect.com

Just trying to toss some options into the mix...
I don't think you could go wrong either way honestly.
 
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