Question about CFL's for a 2/3plant closet grow.

[IstTimer]

Hi all,

I plan on starting my first closet grow after the new year. I want to start with cfl's and only 2 maybe 3 plants to keep things simple until I educate myself a bit more.

Resources are pretty limited for me, so HPS or BIG wattage cfl's are a no go at the moment. I've been to the local hardware store and in terms of cfl's, this is what i can get my hands on:-

lots of low wattage ones 8w/11w/20w etc
23w 2700k / 6500k
45w 2700k / 6500k (these are huge. like a foot long. I didnt expect a 45w to be so big. It states it puts out 2700lumens)

I'm guessing a mixed spectrum throughout veg & flowering, adding more when i start to flower but should i do a 50/50 mix or more of one spectrum?

Is it better to have fewer 45w's or more 23w's?

How many of what type do you think I'll need?
If I work on 10000 lumens per plant, will i be good to go?

Jeeez, lotsa questions, sorry !!

 

[QUICKK]

i got 20 cfls, in between, & around 4 plants, it would benefit for you to favor more of the 6500k spectrum durring veg, then switch to more of 2700k for flowering, i mean, either way, they will still flower..but the red spectrum will almost always produce a better outcome, if you can, get more cfls, more the better, & just find ways to arrange them around the plant making sure light is touching everything, i use clamp reflectors from lowes, with y spliters so i got 4 bulbs in 1 reflector, & 3 of those. get a fan to blow some air around in there, & you can put the plants closer to the light without burning them, some lst/topping & unsulphured molasses wouldnt hurt either..

 

[wannasmokeweed]

I too am going about this for the first time. From the research I have done, I have gone with relatively low wattage CFL's to start and will increase with plant size. I currently have 4 plans (seedlings only a week old) under 6 X 23W - 6500K. I think I will increase to 45W shortly after I start nutes and maybe move the 23 watters down the side for some additional lighting. I am planning on flowering under 60W (actual) with mostly 2700K. Plant height will be an issue in my cabinet if I am not careful so I plan on topping and using LST also to keep the height down. The only other word of advice I have (based on my struggles over the last week or so) is that in a cabinet situation, those little CFL's do INDEED give off a little heat so ensure your intake and exhaust are well planned out to ensure you can keep a handle on the temp in there.
I wish you well and please let me know if I can "Try" answer any other questions.
Peace

 

[QUICKK]

Yep, durring flower, they can deff stretch..my lemon skunk currently is 27", i never expected it to get that tall

 

[IstTimer]

Thanks guys, Thats some good advice.

I'm planning a passive intake with an inline bathroom extractor fan sucking all the air thru a DIY scrubber, all coming and going thru the roof with some ducting or guttering. I'm a little concerned about the temps but thats why Im giving it a go now in winter. Will defo try LST'ing.

Going to start construction after the new year but I think i'm going to start buying my bulbs. Been looking everywhere for the Y adapters but no joy but I think my setup will work great with a few disposable roasting tins with 4 bulbs in each and some single hanging bulbs inbetween the plant for side lighting.

So based on your advice. I'll might grab myself 4 x 23w 6500k to start seeding, once the girls are happy, grab another 4 23w 6500k. That'll be 184w for Vegging 2/3 plants. Then I'm guessing the same again when i start to flower but 2700k and still find a way to squeeze the 6500k in there as well.

Does make sense, think that'll work?

MERRY CHRISTMAS

 

[wannasmokeweed]

Yeah, that makes sense for sure. Another peice of advice would be relative to your DIY scrubber. I have built one and put an inline fan into it and it was NOT a strong enough fan. I bought an inline booster fan that was rated for 250cfm but with the scrubber (or any other restriction for that matter) the CFM is NOT ACCURATE !!! It would hardly push any air through it at all and cause significant back pressure into the cabinet.
I am not sure what size you are planning on making this Cab but I will attach some photo's of mine and let me know if you have any questions. What you will see is NOT the final product as I am about to change my ducting in the next couple of days.
Happy Holidays to you as well.
Peace

 

[IstTimer]

Wow, thats looks REALLY nice, great job and very clean workmanship. The design of your closet is almost identical to mine, mine has an extra compartment at the top about half the size of the others, where i plan on putting all my timers, scrubbers and fan.

I hear ya about the cfm rating when used with scrubbers and i MUST have a scrubber. I've read a few threads with the same problems. So what CFM fan do you recommend for that size space?
I was thinking something like this ----> http://www.fantronix.com/acatalog/TT_Mixed_Flow_Duct_Fan.html

The 150mm states it moves 552m3/hr and is 33dBA on the high setting. Do you think thats any good?

Peace

 

[IstTimer]

Just realised that the rating is m3/hr and not cfm.. Ooops, how stupid do i feel?

Anyways, lets move on. My calculations make that a 324.89cfm fan.

 

[Ole Red Eyed]

Wow , great setup! If it was me i'd use 26w or just add some to what you have.. remember the higher that watts , the more heat it will create. Can't wait to see how this turns out.. gl man

 

[wannasmokeweed]

Just realised that the rating is m3/hr and not cfm.. Ooops, how stupid do i feel?

Anyways, lets move on. My calculations make that a 324.89cfm fan.

That fan will likely do the trick but 33db is pretty loud! I am assuming that you are trying to be as stealth as possible and if that is the case, you are going to have a hard time hiding that sound. As for the cfm, that should certainly suffice and that is exactly what that fan is designed to do.

 

[wannasmokeweed]

Wow , great setup! If it was me i'd use 26w or just add some to what you have.. remember the higher that watts , the more heat it will create. Can't wait to see how this turns out.. gl man

Thanks Ole Red. Once I tune the exhaust on my cabinet, I should not have any problems with heat even with the addition of more/higher watt bulbs.

 

[IstTimer]

That fan will likely do the trick but 33db is pretty loud! I am assuming that you are trying to be as stealth as possible and if that is the case, you are going to have a hard time hiding that sound. As for the cfm, that should certainly suffice and that is exactly what that fan is designed to do.

I had a feeling you was going to say that. I can't seem to find any fan that has a high enough cfm rating thats quieter than 33dBA. Yes, stealth is my main concern. I've read that hanging the fans with bungee cords or installing it into another box will help with the sound. I'll try and find a quieter fan but failing that, I might have to stick it in the attic. No-one should here it up there.

Thanks again for the help. I'll keep you posted when I start construction.

 

[d r0cK]

search ebay for 110v computer fans.... u may have to wire a plug end into it but they work great. i got 6 of them for $60. They are all rated at 96cfm. my space is 39"wide x 48"tall x 22"deep and i get great negative pressure. check out the link in my sig.

 

[IstTimer]

search ebay for 110v computer fans.... u may have to wire a plug end into it but they work great. i got 6 of them for $60. They are all rated at 96cfm. my space is 39"wide x 48"tall x 22"deep and i get great negative pressure. check out the link in my sig.

Just checked out your grow. Looks great, well done!

Can I ask a stupid question?? You say search for 110v fans.... Why 110v?? My electricity is 240v. should i be looking for 240v then?

I've just got the measurements of my space. 15''Deep x 37'' wide x 71'' tall. I will eventually split the height into 2 cabs, once I get to grips with the height of the plants. If anyone can suggest a good way to split it into flowering cab, veg/clone/seed cab, feel free to let me know.

So based on them measurements, my space is 22ft3.... Not that much?
I found these pc fans on another thread.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811999344
They come with a speed controller and are rated at 110cfm/39.5dBA on high and 17dBA on low. Do you think 4 of these running on low will be enough and quieter than the bathroom extractor fan? I'm thinking yes but not sure how I can link 4 of them to a scrubber and some ducting.

Lots to think about..

 

[wannasmokeweed]

IMO, you would be better of to stick to the one larger fan as even the 4 combined computer fans will likely not pull enough to get through the scrubber. You were right about hanging it from bungee cords, that certainly helps. Building and insulated box around the fan will deaden the sound completely. Venting into the attic is something I have been working on the last little while and I am about to go for it in the next day or two. With my booster fans in the attic, hanging, you can hear NOTHING !!!! As my attic is very well vented also, I may not even use my scrubber, just let the attic vent itself out the top. Using the smaller computer fans right at the cabinet to get air flowing toward the big fan is not a bad idea. The ones in that link are very similar to the ones I have mounted right to the cabinet and they are very close in CFM. They push the air out but initially they were not enough to keep the temp down even under only 6 X 23W. Temps still hit the 90's. Part of the problem was that I had the same cfm coming in as going out and that does not work ! I have changed the fans so that I have 2 exhausting and changed the intake to simply passive intake. THis creaed more back pressure and exhausted way better. That combined with the booster fans I am mounting in the attic, should be perfect as far as temps go because as it sits now my average temps are from 75 - 82 degrees. If the furnace is running on a very cold day, the temp in the room rises a few degrees so I have seen temps in the 85-87 range but then I simply open the door for a while and it comes right back down.
I hope some of this is helping. When are you planning on starting construction, I would love to see some pics of the project.
Peace

 

[IstTimer]

It sure is helping my friend. It's good to know someone is doing an almost identical grow. I plan on starting after the new year when i get some extra cash for the shopping list. I'll try and finalize some kind of blue-print in the next day or two and post it here so you can advise me further.

I'm still left with only one option and thats to get air in & out from the attic. My closet is fitted, floor to ceiling. I plan on breaking thru the concrete ceiling and running some ducting from the top all the way to the bottom of the cab for intake. (the plans should explain this further)

Temps are going to be a major issue for me I just know it. I might have to be a winter grower.
In summer temps here hit 100 EASY.

I'll be back.

 

[d r0cK]

Just checked out your grow. Looks great, well done!

Can I ask a stupid question?? You say search for 110v fans.... Why 110v?? My electricity is 240v. should i be looking for 240v then?

I've just got the measurements of my space. 15''Deep x 37'' wide x 71'' tall. I will eventually split the height into 2 cabs, once I get to grips with the height of the plants. If anyone can suggest a good way to split it into flowering cab, veg/clone/seed cab, feel free to let me know.

So based on them measurements, my space is 22ft3.... Not that much?
I found these pc fans on another thread.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811999344
They come with a speed controller and are rated at 110cfm/39.5dBA on high and 17dBA on low. Do you think 4 of these running on low will be enough and quieter than the bathroom extractor fan? I'm thinking yes but not sure how I can link 4 of them to a scrubber and some ducting.

Lots to think about..

i only say 110v because most cfl grows run off standard household 110v and don't need 240v outlets, its a bit of overkill. and if you're running more than 400watts in each area you should really just break down and get an hps.

 

[d r0cK]

It sure is helping my friend. It's good to know someone is doing an almost identical grow. I plan on starting after the new year when i get some extra cash for the shopping list. I'll try and finalize some kind of blue-print in the next day or two and post it here so you can advise me further.

I'm still left with only one option and thats to get air in & out from the attic. My closet is fitted, floor to ceiling. I plan on breaking thru the concrete ceiling and running some ducting from the top all the way to the bottom of the cab for intake. (the plans should explain this further)

Temps are going to be a major issue for me I just know it. I might have to be a winter grower.
In summer temps here hit 100 EASY.

I'll be back.

concrete ceiling?!?!?! before you go drilling into concrete you need to make sure it is not a post tension concrete slab. if it is a post tension slab and you break or nick one of the pt cables running through the slab you will create serious structural integrity problems...... not to mention that if you're gonna use the hole for ventilation you'll need a 4" core drill to get through the slab without ruining the structural integrity of the concrete slab.... if you're ceiling is cement then it's at least 8" thick!! you have any idea how long and how loud its gonna be cutting through 8" of concrete... what kind of residence do you live in?

 

[IstTimer]

concrete ceiling?!?!?! before you go drilling into concrete you need to make sure it is not a post tension concrete slab. if it is a post tension slab and you break or nick one of the pt cables running through the slab you will create serious structural integrity problems...... not to mention that if you're gonna use the hole for ventilation you'll need a 4" core drill to get through the slab without ruining the structural integrity of the concrete slab.... if you're ceiling is cement then it's at least 8" thick!! you have any idea how long and how loud its gonna be cutting through 8" of concrete... what kind of residence do you live in?

Oh No!! Now your worrying me..

The concrete definitely doesn't have any cables in it. It has iron bars(1cm diameter) laid out into a grid and the cement is poured onto it forming a big slab.(about 1400sqft) I thought i would borrow my friends 'CombiHammer' and chisel out a 4'' hole thru the concrete leaving the iron bars intact. You're right though, its probably 8" thick.
Not too sure now though!! Do you still think its a bad idea structurally?? I suppose i could go thru the external wall that the cab sit against. I thought of that already but didn't really want a vent to be visible from the outside. If a DIY scrubber using aquarium activated carbon are 100% oderless, then i could always pump the air back into the room that the closet is in.

Here's a another question for ya?
How important is the quality of air coming in thru a passive intake? By that I mean, How free and open does the space on the outside of the hole have to be? I have a corner unit set of closets with a void/cavity on the corner between two cabinets. Here, this is what i mean...





Could i get away with sucking air from that cavity? By no means is it air tight back there.

This route would save me a whole lot of hassle. BIG TIME!!!!

Cheers again for all the feedback peeps. You've been a great help.

Time for a coffee and to wait for the replies

 

[IstTimer]

i only say 110v because most cfl grows run off standard household 110v and don't need 240v outlets, its a bit of overkill. and if you're running more than 400watts in each area you should really just break down and get an hps.

I'm still not exactly sure what you mean or rather how to run my grow off 110v. Any chance you can elaborate further?
I thought I would just get a couple of 6 gang extension leads plugged into a wall socket and wire the cfl's to plugs and put a timer on them. Is that not right??

I was hoping to have the whole grow cab (lights & fans) plugged into one wall socket behind the closet.