Young plants going awry

[Selleri]

I have 2 plants that have been getting pretty bad lately and I have not been able to pinpoint the cause. I have not been able to check the pH since I ran out of the liquid tester about a month ago and apparently the local stores have had problems restocking them aswel. So I'm looking to get some ideas from here so I could fix the situation.

The plants are Sage 'n' Sour and one surviving Apollo 11 out of seven seeds of which most were dead to begin with. They are in hempy buckets with the original mix of perlite and vermiculite and were watered twice a day enough to have some drainage until they started to look droopy. I thought this was because of overwatering so I have now watered every other day to once a day. Temperatures have been around 18-21 celcius with lights off and 24-28 with lights on. Also I havent started to feed them regularily yet, but I did give them some 0.15ml/l of GHE Flora Gro and Micro yesterday as they had yellowed very rapidly.

The S'n'S had odd yellowing around the leaves pretty much from the start and I will include a picture taken before the current problems started here. Does anyone have any idea what could cause this?

And now for the problem at hand, the odd yellowing and withering of the leaves. Pictures without the timestamps were taken yesterday before the feeding.

First the Sage 'n' Sour:


And then the Apollo 11:


Looking forward for some answers and possible solution for my situation. Also, thanks in advance.

-Celery

 

[gobbly]

far to small for nutes. You also were watering way too much to start. So a quick rundown, overwatering, then nute burn/toxicity. It's possible you might be overcompensating and not watering enough now, hard to say. They shouldn't get 100% dry, but should be close.

Leaf damage normally is permanent, so don't expect them to start looking significantly better. Your goal right now is to get the new growth looking healthy, get a few true nodes, and then start really small on nutes, and slowly taper. Don't hesitate to give a fresh watering or two if you think you overdid it.

Also get your PH meter going.

 

[Selleri]

While I cant deny the possibility of nute burn after the feeding couple days ago I dont really think that's the problem as the leaves had those yellow/withered tips to begin with, they seemed to have spread a bit after I fed them though. Anyways, if anyone has something to share regarding the issue I will look into it and try to find the solution with the help.

 

[The Ruiner]

were you using RO water by chance?

 

[slowmo77]

looking at the medium you have them in a would say over watering also, it looks pretty wet to me. plants that small should be able to go two days without watering since they don't take up that much. it does also look like a light nute burn, as stated above they're to young to need nutes right now and even a small amount can burn them. even though they spread out after you feed them doesn't mean it won't hurt them. ease off the water till the medium looks dry then give them a small drink. keeping them wet is bad the roots can't get any air if the groung is soaked. jmo

 

[buddwasher]

poor little guys they only seedlings - they need to be in a propergation tank ($5) - keeps the humidity up to about 70% they need this for a week or so till they trying to grow out of roof of tank

+ use a 10% nute solution (of the full strength you'll b using forveg stage)

or cut bottom 8" off 2L clear soda bottle and invert it onto seedlings

gl

 

[Selleri]

were you using RO water by chance?

Nope, nor have I ever heard of anyone around here using RO water. How would using RO water affect the plants? I know that you need to compensate certain elements lost from the water with nutes meant for soft water, but as plants this young should generally not need nutes to begin with.

looking at the medium you have them in a would say over watering also, it looks pretty wet to me. plants that small should be able to go two days without watering since they don't take up that much. it does also look like a light nute burn, as stated above they're to young to need nutes right now and even a small amount can burn them. even though they spread out after you feed them doesn't mean it won't hurt them. ease off the water till the medium looks dry then give them a small drink. keeping them wet is bad the roots can't get any air if the groung is soaked. jmo

The medium around 75% perlite and 25% vermiculite, the water basically runs through it so the over watering should not be possible apart from the rockwool cube. Vermiculite absorbs some of the water poured in and the perlite should keep the medium aerated as it doesnt hold any moisture. However it could be that the roots havent grown that much out of the rockwool and as far as I know, soaking wet rockwool isnt actually the best kind of medium for a seedling.

However, from what I have read it seems people recommend watering once to twice a day until the root system has spread enough to cover larger area of the bucket when using hempy buckets. That being said, I have watered them a bit less now for a couple of days and there is yet improvement to be seen. I'm trying not to soak the rockwool so much when watering though.

poor little guys they only seedlings - they need to be in a propergation tank ($5) - keeps the humidity up to about 70% they need this for a week or so till they trying to grow out of roof of tank

+ use a 10% nute solution (of the full strength you'll b using forveg stage)

or cut bottom 8" off 2L clear soda bottle and invert it onto seedlings

gl

I could try this to be honest, the air humidity has been ridicilously low given it's winter now. Going to see if either of the local hydro stores have them in stock when I'm going to check them for the pH-kit.

About the nutes. The general consensus seems to be not to give any nutes before the plants are big enough, but what exactly is the case with medium that does not contain any nutrients in itself. The plants have had very stunted growth as they have already been under the light for nearly three weeks and they've had the burns on the leaves for 8 or so days, way before I've given them any nutes.

Oh, but we only have 1.5l bottles here, stuff's getting hard.

I had slow growth rates during my last project aswel with couple Sage 'n' Sours, that time I was using medium of 80% coco and 20% vulcaponic, although slow not anywhere near as slow as this time. The coco was pre-nuted and I didnt have any problems with defiencies before they were around month old, I've been quite careful, some say too careful, with nutes. Gave them nutes and things started looking better, until I had to chop them because information had spread somewhere it shouldnt have.

Thanks for the points you've brought up, all are going into use in a form or another.

-Celery

 

[brownbearclan]

Just to recap:

-Watered too much to start with. Mist them a few times a day but only water the soil every couple days when it's dry.
-No nutes! They are wayyyy too small for nutes. They really don't much of anything until they are at least 2-3 weeks old.
-Light cycle is not helping at all. Go 24 hours on or 18/6. None of that crazy 24/26 or whatever you were doing.
-Get your PH under control.
-I'd flush those nutes out before they get fried to death if you haven't yet.

Hope that helps save those little ones. Peace. =)

 

[buddwasher]

Just to recap:

-Watered too much to start with. Mist them a few times a day but only water the soil every couple days when it's dry.
-No nutes! They are wayyyy too small for nutes. They really don't much of anything until they are at least 2-3 weeks old.
-Light cycle is not helping at all. Go 24 hours on or 18/6. None of that crazy 24/26 or whatever you were doing.
-Get your PH under control.
-I'd flush those nutes out before they get fried to death if you haven't yet.

Hope that helps save those little ones. Peace. =)

sound advise

and i use a 10% solution one watering (medium is wet but not dripping) lasts about 4 days for seedlings - as i said i use a propergation tank so olse little moisture from evaporation

 

[Selleri]

Just to recap:

-Watered too much to start with. Mist them a few times a day but only water the soil every couple days when it's dry.
-No nutes! They are wayyyy too small for nutes. They really don't much of anything until they are at least 2-3 weeks old.
-Light cycle is not helping at all. Go 24 hours on or 18/6. None of that crazy 24/26 or whatever you were doing.
-Get your PH under control.
-I'd flush those nutes out before they get fried to death if you haven't yet.

Hope that helps save those little ones. Peace. =)

I think you've misunderstood a few things.

There is no soil at all, anywhere. Just perlite and vermiculite, the mix doesnt hold enough water to drown the plant and lets most of the water to just run through to the "reservoir" on the bottom. It should be virtually impossible to over water when growing in a hempy bucket, or so I've heard. But still, it could be that the rockwool cube has been too moist when the roots havent probably grown that much through it.

I'm kind of torn between the no nutes and very light nuting as the medium I'm using doesnt have any nutrients in itself. I know a few people who grow on hydro setups and give 1/5 of the normal nutes right away after they put the pre grown seedling with it's first set or two of true leaves, never had any problems apart from certain strains. And as the system I am using is basically a hydro, though passive I've been thinking of the option to start giving them small amounts of nutes on every 2nd or 3rd watering. Though now I'm going to just see how they fare with bare water for a week or so.

And this is the one I laughed a bit about. The light cycle is 18/6, the numbers I had there were the temperatures in degree celcius with lights off and on. 18-21 degree with lights off and 24-28 with lights on. And for the silly people using fahrenheit it's 64-70 with lights off, and 75-82 with lights on.

The pH is a mystery at the moment as I dont have an access to a tester right now, however I will go see if the local stores have restocked them, but that'll happen tomorrow at the earliest. I've been adjusting the pH roughly by memory, I know how much pH down I need to have in a liter of water to drop it down from 7.5 to 6 pH, but the tap water has some fluctuation depending on the temperatures and other variables so I can never be sure without a tester.

Havent really flushed the buckets, but I've watered them twice now with enough water to have a decent run off. Might do a proper flush today if they have gotten worse or havent improved a bit.

Cheers,
-Celery

 

[slowmo77]

'' However it could be that the roots havent grown that much out of the rockwool and as far as I know, soaking wet rockwool isnt actually the best kind of medium for a seedling.''

i would bet thats your problem combined with the early nutes. but it seems like you are looking for a certain answer so pretend i said what you wanna hear and do what you want. several ppl have givin you the same advise and you seem to have a reason why they're wrong. since you already seem to know so much then i think i'll just let you make your mistakes untill your ready to listen to the advise being givin. good luck with those babies i hope they make it

 

[Selleri]

'' However it could be that the roots havent grown that much out of the rockwool and as far as I know, soaking wet rockwool isnt actually the best kind of medium for a seedling.''

i would bet thats your problem combined with the early nutes. but it seems like you are looking for a certain answer so pretend i said what you wanna hear and do what you want. several ppl have givin you the same advise and you seem to have a reason why they're wrong. since you already seem to know so much then i think i'll just let you make your mistakes untill your ready to listen to the advise being givin. good luck with those babies i hope they make it

All I meant that medium (perlite/vermiculite) does not hold enough water to drown the roots, but the rockwool does. I removed the plants from the perlite/vermiculite mix the other day and confirmed that the roots hadnt grown out of the rockwool cube that much. I think the cubes were kept too wet while the mix stays relatively dry and this is why the roots didnt reach out of the cube. At the moment the plants are in small germination box with the cubes planted in small amount of coco coir.

Also I went to get the pH tester today and while at it I decided to buy a GHE Ecogrower. So for now the plan is to let the two plants recover in peace and let the new ones I planted grow a bit and then I will move them in the hydro. Though I'm a bit puzzled with the coco I planted them in, guess all they need is a proper wash. Or could some sort of fabric be used to cover the netbasket for them to be able to hold coco coir without it dropping in the water.

More details later, too far out to continue now.. Sorry for the incoherent text.

Edit. some typos that bugged me.