Ramblings of a Grumpy Old Dreamer

[Grumpy Old Dreamer]

This thread is … well, me rambling on about what I’m growing from time to time and I have put it in “General Marijuana Growing” as that’s pretty much what I ramble on about.
Usually thread titles end up having little to do with the thread as the discussion progresses - but this thread will definitely be me rambling on about my grows.


I have another couple of threads – one started out documenting my first grow and quickly went in several directions.
The other is about making feminised seeds with Colloidal Silver.

So, what is happening with my growing at the moment ?

I flower under 2 Kessil H150 Magenta lights, each has a footprint of about 2 foot diameter.
To maximise the potential of the lights, I aim to grow 2 foot diameter SCROGs – one for each light, and I plan to have one SCROG being harvested each 5 to 6 weeks – if and when I ever get my timing right.

The first grow (Red Dragon) is progressing (2 or 3 weeks to go) but because of several problems I won’t harvest much bud, but I have already harvested a ton of knowledge, so it was a very valuable grow.

Here is a pikkie - not much to it, but it will taste nice




As with the first grow, the second grow is also Red Dragon and is also grown in soil, it also managed to get a bit stunted.
I sorta tortured the plants that make up this grow basically because I like to see how badly you can abuse plants (I used to grow Bonsai trees).

I began by training the clones from an early age and they grew with very short internodes.
I eventually repotted the 4 plants into a single pot and defoliated them to promote the branch growth

This thread will follow that Red Dragon SCROG as it develops, and I would love to see 1g per watt from a LED, stay tuned … it might just happen.




…. What else am I playing with?

The feminised seed experiment is chugging along with nice fat seeds developing.

… ah, the Magic Bud plant.

Magic Bud feminised seeds by Paradise Seeds bought from PlanetSkunk – what a pain in the ass.
Any sane person would have given up by now …

… but I’m not sane.

I’ve been trying to get a Magic Bud plant to grow since mid September and after deaths and deformed plants, I finally got to where I am now.

It took me 2 months from seed to get the plant big enough to take 5 clones which I did on 13th November. The clones got so bad that I decided to throw them out, but when I picked one up to toss it out, I saw heaps of roots and they all pulled through.

On 23 December I put 4 of the clones into my hempy “starter" pots to veg before they go under a SCROG screen.



All 4 clones will be going in the same large (1 foot square) hempy pot with a 2 foot SCROG screen attached to the pot.

When my first Red Dragon plant ends in a couple of weeks, the Magic Bud will be switched to 12/12 and take over the flowering space.

Well that is a bit of what I am doing, I’m also playing with 2 different phenotypes of Barneys Farm L.S.D. and preparing to make a multi-grafted mother plant.

My grow space has evolved and was reconfigured today to accommodate my 2 new Kessil H150 Purple lights – running lots of CFLs for propagation & vegging was making it uncomfortably warm (Aussie summers are insanely hot) - so now I am running 2 Kessil H150 Magenta LED lights for flowering and 2 Kessil H150 Purple LED lights for vegging.

Germination and cloning is still done under CFLs.

 

[choempi]

Subbd, have read your posts on the Aussie thread, Yank here but I like to read different countries threads.

Interested in your thoughts about genetics and using CS

 

[Grumpy Old Dreamer]

Subbd, have read your posts on the Aussie thread, Yank here but I like to read different countries threads.

Interested in your thoughts about genetics and using CS

Welcome aboard choempi, my thoughts on genetics & CS ...

I doubt that the application of CS has any affect on the plants genetics, nor directly has any affect on the genetics of the seeds ... but I am not sure what affect pollinating a mother with her own CS induced pollen would have.
I'm assuming that I am using "stable" strains and hoping for feminised seeds that are identical to the parent.
If a "strain" has multiple phenotypes then self pollination "may" reinforce one phenotype over another (but I haven't confirmed anything yet).
I do plan on backcrossing any feminised seeds that I make with pollen from the original mother plant, just to study what happens to future generations.

 

[choempi]

I meant your thoughts on genetics as far as is there a "true" female, that when treated rough will not herm, but treat with CS gives 100% female?

 

[Grumpy Old Dreamer]

From my readings I tend to believe that there are no "true" males or "true" females when talking about cannabis and there are many botanical studies on the subject - by people who are paid to know what they are talking about.

The plants can be strongly dominant in either sex, but can be influenced or in fact manipulated by environmental factors.

Some people can't see past the "fact" that plants are not humans and don't need to follow the genetic norms that apply to humans (eg. either male or female ... black or white with nothing else permitted).

Whether all plants behave the same as cannabis or not is something that isn't known as most plants have not been (and won't be) studied as intimately as cannabis.

Most people on these forums believe that the sex of a plant is determined purely by genetics and is set in concrete in the seed.
The same people will argue that you cannot increase the likelyhood of female plants (from regular seeds) by manipulating the environmental factors affecting the plant - but then again, most people's research material is limited to reading forums.

This is an extract from a document that I am currently reading ...

Many researchers have suggested that sex in Cannabis is determined or strongly influenced by environmental factors.
The studies confirmed the role of endogenous hormones in maintenance of genetic sex, as well as the possibility to modify it by exogenous growth regulators, especially in polymorphic sexual systems, like hemp. The gibberellins, auxin, ethylene and cytokinins favour the expression of male or female sex in many monoecious and dioecious systems. It has been reported that sex can be reversed also in Cannabis using chemical treatment. It must emphasize that the exogenous treatment with these hormone regulators determines only a phenotypic modification of floral sexual expression, without affect chromatin structures.

The full document can be found here >>>>>>>> LINK <<<<<<<<​

 

[choempi]

From my readings I tend to believe that there are no "true" males or "true" females when talking about cannabis and there are many botanical studies on the subject - by people who are paid to know what they are talking about.

The plants can be strongly dominant in either sex, but can be influenced or in fact manipulated by environmental factors.

Some people can't see past the "fact" that plants are not humans and don't need to follow the genetic norms that apply to humans (eg. either male or female ... black or white with nothing else permitted).

Whether all plants behave the same as cannabis or not is something that isn't known as most plants have not been (and won't be) studied as intimately as cannabis.

Most people on these forums believe that the sex of a plant is determined purely by genetics and is set in concrete in the seed.
The same people will argue that you cannot increase the likelyhood of female plants (from regular seeds) by manipulating the environmental factors affecting the plant - but then again, most people's research material is limited to reading forums.

This is an extract from a document that I am currently reading ...

The full document can be found here >>>>>>>> LINK <<<<<<<<​

I am well aquainted with the issue, both sides, but wanted your take, thanks.

 

[Grumpy Old Dreamer]

I'd love to get hold of one of the "clone only" strains (but living in Australia makes it unlikely), just to see whether it can be sex-changed.

 

[Grumpy Old Dreamer]

When the Magic Bud clones looked close to death, I planted 2 Barney's Farm L.S.D. feminised seeds as I expected to have a flowering space available as the Magic Bud were dieing.

The seeds were planted directly into Jiffy peat pellets on 1st December and the pellets with the young seedlings were put into small hempy pots on the 7th December.

The 2 seeds grew into 2 distinctly different phenotypes ...


These are the 2 L.S.D. plants - one germinated on 3rd Dec, one on the 5th - this photo was taken on the 25th December.



Same two plants on the 7th January - they have both been topped and defoliated and the one on the right has given up 2 clones and has been topped a second time to produce 4 branches.


As the plants are visually totally different, I expect that the smoke will be different ... so I will grow both ... one will be a 2 foot SCROG and the other will be just a "sample" grow whilst keeping the genetics safe for a future SCROG.


I don't usually follow the cute trend of naming plants, but to help keep track of the story I will call this plant "Phenotype 1" or "LSD-1" ... or something else with a number one in it.

This plant was topped on 25 December, defoliated on the 26th and had 2 clones removed on the 28th December. On 4th January the top 4 branches were removed leaving just 4 branches.

This plant is destined to become the root-stock and one strain of a multi-grafted mother plant.

I plan to add a graft from the LSD-2 pheno, a Red Dragon (clone rooted and growing) and a Magic Bud graft ... and leave one of the 4 branches as the LSD-1 pheno.

The 2 clones that I removed on 28th December have sent out roots and have just been potted into small hempy pots to get on with vegging. These 2 clones have a long 10 week wait for a flowering spot so I will slowly get them bushy.

This leaves Phenotype 2 ...


This girl has looked crazy since it was born - there is a distinct deformity of several leaves and it is extremely vigorous - if I hadn't topped and defoliated it, it would be 2 foot tall by now.

Because of the repeating leaf deformity I think the genetics may be a bit suspect so I'll wait to see what the smoke is like before deciding whether to make seeds.

Once I have attached a graft of this pheno to the "Mother" plant I will put it under 12/12 and flower it. I may prune heavily first depending on how big it is.
If I like the smoke of this pheno I will grow out a full SCROG at a later time.

I attached the SCROG screen to my second Red Dragon grow today, terminal flower buds are just appearing (10 days of 12/12) - I'll take a pikkie in a day or so.

 

[choempi]

very interested in your grafting on mothers with multiple phenos?

 

[Grumpy Old Dreamer]

I've never grafted cannabis before although I have experience with other plants from my Bonsai growing days.

The plants will be quite small when I do the grafting (maybe 2 to 3 days) and I'm confident that I can get the grafts to work.

I'd like to get to a position where I have all my strains on multi-grafted mothers with some home made feminised seeds as a back-up.

I just made a fresh batch of Colloidal Silver to get ready to treat a Magic Bud clone so I can selectively pollinate my Magic Bud SCROG. As the Magic Bud is supposed to have a flowering period of around 8 weeks I thought that I should get a head start with the pollen production.
The Red Dragon took 32 days from first application of Colloidal Silver to collecting/using thepollen ... as I'm hoping to put the Magic Bud under 12/12 in 2 weeks, I should be in a position to apply pollen about 2 to 3 weeks later - that will leave about 5 weeks for seed development.

Timing and forward planning is critical with my version of the hobby.

Both my second Red Dragon SCROG and the Magic Bud SCROG should be ready for harvest within a week of each other.
The first one to be harvested will be replaced by Barney's Farm L.S.D. which is supposed to flower for 8 to 9 weeks.
The second one to be harvested will be replaced by Hawaiian Snow which is supposed to take 11 weeks of flowering - this will start the "staggered Harvest" as one should be ready 3 to 4 weeks before the other.

Eventually I hope to harvest every 5 to 6 weeks.

Hopefully I will have pikkies of my first successful grafting in a few days or so.

Edited to add this ...

After watching the Youtube vid of Greenhouse Seeds Hawaiian Snow grow, I now don't have a clue about flowering times.
There is always an argument about the advertised flowering time and whether it begins at first sign of flowers or whether it begins when you switch to 12/12.
Well ... it appears that Greenhouse Seeds start the count from when the seeds are germinated.
Their Hawaiian Snow is listed as an 11 week plant, and the plant in the vid is harvested at 11 weeks, not 11 weeks since switching, not 11 weeks from first buds but 11 weeks from germination.

[youtube]kfHJfg8XqH4[/youtube]

So with Greenhouse seeds I might have to deduct about 3 weeks vegging time from their listed times to get an indication of flowering period.

As I said, timing and forward planning ... problem is I really don't have a clue how long any of the plants will flower for until I have grown them all once

 

[Grumpy Old Dreamer]

... my first attempt at grafting failed for a number of reasons.
A) I was shit-faced and shouldn't have been anywhere near the plants.
B) The stock and the scion were too small and I was too shit-faced to be able to focus on the join, nevermind actually line the pieces up.
C) I didn't do anything to prevent moisture loss through transpiration - but because of point B above, that wouldn't matter anyway, and ...
D) I was shit-faced and shouldn't have been anywhere near the plants.

So, the main lesson is not to try any experimentation when you should be sitting quietly watching UFC.

After removing one of the 4 branches of pheno 1 to make room for the failed graft of the Magic Bud, I decided to remove two more branches to be cloned leaving just one branch left which was to be used in the next grafting attempt.

There are a couple of problems with grafting that need attention, the first is finding a way to securely hold the scion in contact with the rootstock while the bond forms and the second is stopping moisture loss.

My subject plants are small enough to put a bag over the whole plant to stop moisture loss.

Grafting woody plants or plants with decent cross-sections is relatively easy as you can seal & support the join site with budding tape.
Unfortunately the tape is too heavy duty to be used on small flimsy pieces of cannabis plants.

I made up a small clamp which holds (and supports) the join between the scion and stock which allows me to work with very small plants.
I'll post pikkies and details of the "clamp" later if anyone has any interest in how they are made and how they work.

After making the clamp I used the L.S.D. pheno 2 as the stock (after pruning it back to 4 branches) and added a scion of L.S.D. pheno 1.
That was 2 days ago and when I removed the plastic bag today it appears that the graft is actually working - a few more days and I will remove the clamp and think about adding the next scion.

Here is a pikkie of the graft site with the "clamp" attached, as you can see - the clamp is made from a hair clip thingy and the graft is small.

 

[Harrekin]

Always wanted to see if a multistrain mother would work...Ill be watching.

 

[Grumpy Old Dreamer]

Always wanted to see if a multistrain mother would work...Ill be watching.

Welcome aboard Harrekin, hopefully you will find my growing experiments entertaining - I certainly do

 

[Grumpy Old Dreamer]

Just to update the 4 way Red Dragon SCROG ... it has been under 12/12 for 2 weeks now and is producing around 30+ colas.



The 4 Magic Bud clones that were growing in small hempy pots are settling in to their new home in the large pot ...



As soon as they recover from the repotting and the slight defoliation, they should fill the pot quickly.
I lay the plants down when I repotted them, kinda like LSTing without LSTing - planting the clones nearly horizontally allows all of the branches to get maximum light exposure and hopefully fill the screen with many colas.

 

[Dwezelitsame]

Harr i love that plant in yo av

yo Grumpy my second time sniffin around just thought id let you know this time old dude -we bout due for update on da
oh yeah red dragon scrog been abot a week right

 

[Grumpy Old Dreamer]

The original Red Dragon SCROG has been chopped - hanging out to dry.

Yield is pretty small and I'll weigh it when it's done drying.

Together with the trimmings and my 2 small seed bearing plants, I will have enough to keep me happy until the next lot gets harvested.

The second Red Dragon SCROG will be much more productive but still won't be as good as I can get it.

My third Red Dragon SCROG will be sometime in the future and will be my own feminised seeds grown in a hempy pot ... now that one will be a maximum yield Red Dragon grow.

By the way, Red Dragon is a really nice smoke - not recommended if you plan to sleep anytime within 2 hours of smoking though

 

[Kaptain Kron]

subbed for the awesome idea of grafting i grafted a sunflower once onto a tomatoe plant lol that was in like 4th grade though. I have really been wanting to do it with cannabis. Its nice to see someone playing with CS that actually knows that they arent going to get 100% fem ratio. Theres a guy on here called cultivation art that is going around telling people that he makes fem seeds and that its impossible for them to herm if you do it with CS versus rodelization. I tend to agree that CS sees herm LESS than rodelziation ones do but they can still herm as i told him. He told me he would be fired if he produced a single herm i told him to get a new boss lol. Likin the experiments man keep em comin im subbed.

 

[Dwezelitsame]

not recommended if you plan to sleep anytime within 2 hours of smoking though

why is that

 

[Grumpy Old Dreamer]

why is that

Because the smoke is such a nice cerebral high, your brain refuses to shut down - I love sativa dominant smokes.

 

[DSB65]

This grafting looks interesting...im subbed...