The Poorhouse: Aunt Winnie, Glenn Beck, And The Politics Of The New Deal

[medicineman]

Rank Country

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 <A href="http://allcountries.org/health/usa_health_care_2008_nyt.html" target=_blank>United States of America
I really think we could do better, don't you? The righties say we have the best medical care in the world, I guess they don't read much
I mean come on now, Columbia @#22, Malta @#4 and us @#37. What the fuck is wrong with this picture. Could it be corporate greed??

 

[NoDrama]

They are ranking health systems in that list NOT medical care. Find another list or retract your statement.

 

[Johnnyorganic]

They are ranking health systems in that list NOT medical care. Find another list or retract your statement.

Fat chance of that ever happening.

I think what we have here is a problem of perception.

When I think of the rich, I picture Michael Dell. I think of Warren Buffet, who I admire in spite of his politics.

Both of those men earned their wealth the old fashioned way. The were smart and worked their asses off.

I believe when Progressives imagine the rich, they see Thurston Howell, III; Scrooge McDuck; and C. Montgomery Burns.

 

[medicineman]

So what you're trying to say is that list is just health systems, like the system that cares for the people, But when or if the people can find treatment, it is the best in the world?? I get it, double talk and gobblygook. You portend that the USA has the best health care in the world. What you forgot to add was the best health care one can afford. Sure the rich recieve the best health care because the most talented doctors can make the most money in the USA operating on rich folks, presenting them with the worlds best health care. Would you care to venture a guess at what percentage of US citizens recieve this excellent high dollar care?? It is around 2-3%. The rest of either have shitty care or no care, so no, I'll not retract my statement. We are 37th in rankung in health care, health care provided, or not. How can you squeeze out 2-3% that recieve this excellent health care and say: " the US has the best health care, that is very decieving at best and just plain bullshit in fact.

 

[NLXSK1]

So what you're trying to say is that list is just health systems, like the system that cares for the people, But when or if the people can find treatment, it is the best in the world?? I get it, double talk and gobblygook. You portend that the USA has the best health care in the world. What you forgot to add was the best health care one can afford. Sure the rich recieve the best health care because the most talented doctors can make the most money in the USA operating on rich folks, presenting them with the worlds best health care. Would you care to venture a guess at what percentage of US citizens recieve this excellent high dollar care?? It is around 2-3%. The rest of either have shitty care or no care, so no, I'll not retract my statement. We are 37th in rankung in health care, health care provided, or not. How can you squeeze out 2-3% that recieve this excellent health care and say: " the US has the best health care, that is very decieving at best and just plain bullshit in fact.

Hey Medi? You have 2 scenarios...

Either the US has the best healthcare that you can buy or not.

It seems that you are angry that the US has the best health care that you can buy and you want to force them to be 2nd or 10th or something...

What is the other option?

 

[Hudsonvalley82]

Better stated:

The US has the best health care services that exist. However those services are available to so few that it diminishes the nations overall effectiveness vs most industrialized nations models. Accounting for the entire nation (which is the responsible and mature thing to do) you will find most statistics as depressing as the one mentioned.

So yeah, you're wrong.

Hey Medi? You have 2 scenarios...

Either the US has the best healthcare that you can buy or not.

It seems that you are angry that the US has the best health care that you can buy and you want to force them to be 2nd or 10th or something...

What is the other option?

 

[NLXSK1]

The US has the best health care services that exist.

So, you agree with Medi that the US should not have the best health care services that exist?

You know, cause it is selfish and greedy?

ROFLMAO!!!

Yeah, lets just ban all expensive procedures from teh rich so that we can take all that money and spend it on the poor's medical care... Those evil selfish rich bastards obviously dont deserve to spend their money extending their greedy lives obviously...

Absolute insanity...

 

[medicineman]

Hey Medi? You have 2 scenarios...

Either the US has the best healthcare that you can buy or not.

It seems that you are angry that the US has the best health care that you can buy and you want to force them to be 2nd or 10th or something...

What is the other option?

I'd have to say, check with #1, France. If they can do it, I'd bet my life savings that we could do it better. Just like the US has the best Justice system money can buy. The problem seems obvious to me, money. With money come selfishness and denial of same qualitymhealth care and justice. You see, you see health care as a commodity, something to put a price on. I see health care as a right, a right as a citizen to be protected from disease and misfortune by the health care system. I believe every citizen deserves the best health care available at the time and place they are injured or sickened. You obviously have enough scratch to afford good health care, and could care less about your neighbor. I mean, I assume you would just go out and step over the bodies of those uninsured if they were littering your streets. The problem is, people like you just don't give a shit about others.

 

[NLXSK1]

I see health care as a right

But it is not a right. It was not granted as a right in the Constitution.

So, until you change the Constitution legally you cannot say it is a right.

The legislation will be overturned by the supreme court of the united states, it will just take time.

It is not about money it is about rights. A poster made it very clear previously with the apple analogy. The government cannot simply decide to provide rights to people by stealing the labor of one man and giving it to another man.

You are the most selfish and greedy person I have ever met. You covet the goods and services other people have earned. And on the other side you call them greedy.

You seem to think that a person who is born, who does not contribute to society (because they are poor) has a right to the labor, goods and services of another man just because he exists. It is an evil concept and equates to slavery for everyone.

 

[Hudsonvalley82]

The constitution didn't grant african americans and women the right to vote until it did.

 

[NLXSK1]

The constitution didn't grant african americans and women the right to vote until it did.

So, until you change the Constitution legally you cannot say it is a right.

Yeah... Like I said... CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION!!! Go ahead and do it if everyone agrees that free universal healthcare is the way to go...

 

[Hudsonvalley82]

He isn't greedy.
He's far from it.
He has, like myself, a greater value system than money and belongings. Those things are temporary. They come and go, as well as they are manifested.
Health care is fundamental. It is a fundamental need. Medicines, shamans, doctors, and the like have been around since civilizations have.
If I have the right to bear arms, I don't have the right to get my gun shot stitched up without health care?
Im not saying it will be free, but it will be cost effective, and worth it. Much more worth it than bs tax cuts to try to help you save another buck to spend on your bunker.
The legislation in place now is a "trap" more or less, that will force the creation of a public option.
The supreme court will never rule against health care, thats wishful thinking. It is perfectly legal, made by people who know the law much better than you and me. It would never had passed if it were at all unconstitutional, that word is only used politically, not practically.

The government is not getting smaller, the debt probably isn't either, so we might as well spend it and build it wisely.

But it is not a right. It was not granted as a right in the Constitution.

So, until you change the Constitution legally you cannot say it is a right.

The legislation will be overturned by the supreme court of the united states, it will just take time.

It is not about money it is about rights. A poster made it very clear previously with the apple analogy. The government cannot simply decide to provide rights to people by stealing the labor of one man and giving it to another man.

You are the most selfish and greedy person I have ever met. You covet the goods and services other people have earned. And on the other side you call them greedy.

You seem to think that a person who is born, who does not contribute to society (because they are poor) has a right to the labor, goods and services of another man just because he exists. It is an evil concept and equates to slavery for everyone.

 

[medicineman]

Yeah... Like I said... CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION!!! Go ahead and do it if everyone agrees that free universal healthcare is the way to go...

I seriously doubt that it would take a change in the constitution to have universal healthcare. You call me selfish. Not wanting every citizen to have health care, that's what I call selfish. This new health bill is a giant turd, a giveaway to the insurance industry that is already trying to figure out how to not cover people, That is what I call selfish. You act as though I'm coming to your house with a gun to take your precious. I'm not, well not yet anyway.

 

[Hudsonvalley82]

Dont know why I wrote that, but anyway...

Its called a majority, not everyone, that is in the constitution to...
Being a minority sucks, and is a mentally easy squawking perch to sit on if you are a perpetual minority as the libertarians are. It allows you to harbor the conservative view, without harboring its actions or consequences, so your stance always seems purer. We shall see this year, NLXSK1, what libertarians are actually made of. What all this "personally responsibility" actually is. The great decider. I just hope they don't buck the GOP enough to lose their way out of voting no on the debt ceiling, or that would make short work of this thread. I can't imagine all of you scrambling to find another name for your party after such a tragedy would occur.

Hopefully all the dems vote yes, or that would be quite a precarious situation...

Yeah... Like I said... CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION!!! Go ahead and do it if everyone agrees that free universal healthcare is the way to go...

 

[NLXSK1]

I dont have a party.

I call myself a libertarian because it most closely describes my views.

I am focused on issues, not partisanship. You should try it some time.

 

[UncleBuck]

But it is not a right. It was not granted as a right in the Constitution.

so you are the same guy who didn't believe that women had a right to vote in 1919, but did believe it in 1921?

the same guy who didn't believe that he had a right to ingest alcohol from 1920 through 1932, but then did in 1933?

are you the same guy that believed that the young men drafted into war had no right to vote in 1970, but then did in 1972?

do you really need to wait for a piece of paper to tell you what our rights are or should be?

yep, that's you.

a grand TOOL.

"fundamental rights may not be submitted to a vote, they depend on the outcome of no elections"

to be fair, i did embellish a bit. you could not be all the people i described above since you were born sometime near 1998.

 

[Hudsonvalley82]

I did, until I realized that I will just be an angry empty turd who will never see his wishes fulfilled until I just pick a side that pisses me off the least and go with it. You gotta take the good with the bad, thats America for ya.
Im not going to dance around and tip toe here and there on issues and expect to be taken seriously. I'm tired of wasting my vote on the "right" candidate, I put my vote on the candidate that is going to hit as many check marks as possible on my list, and actually be electable, which lands you in the party system.

My views my be different, but in the light of practicality, I yam what I yam.

I dont have a party.

I call myself a libertarian because it most closely describes my views.

I am focused on issues, not partisanship. You should try it some time.

 

[NoDrama]

I see health care as a right, a right as a citizen to be protected from disease and misfortune by the health care system. I believe every citizen deserves the best health care available at the time and place they are injured or sickened. The problem is, people like you just don't give a shit about others.

So basically lets say you consume 2,500 calories a day all fast food, illegally race motorcycles on the weekends, smoke tobacco and do heroin and binge drink on the weekends when you aren't working. You are also going around having unprotected sex. You expect everyone else to fucking subsidize your fucked up lifestyle and then when a vein collapses or you have a heart attack from the massive doses of processed food you eat you also want them to pay for your health care? Fuck off!!

You were born a cripple? I'm sorry, life is shit, make the most of it. There are charities out there that will help you. People will help you if you give them a chance, christ look at the octo mom, got herself some sugar daddy to take care of all her bills. Charity, not government goons sticking me up for whats in my wallet.

 

[NoDrama]

I did, until I realized that I will just be an angry empty turd who will never see his wishes fulfilled until I just pick a side that pisses me off the least and go with it. You gotta take the good with the bad, thats America for ya.
Im not going to dance around and tip toe here and there on issues and expect to be taken seriously. I'm tired of wasting my vote on the "right" candidate, I put my vote on the candidate that is going to hit as many check marks as possible on my list, and actually be electable, which lands you in the party system.

My views my be different, but in the light of practicality, I yam what I yam.

So if the next presidential hopeful said everyone can have free healthcare as long as you give up one of your children and the other presidentail hopeful said you can have free healthcare too, but you have to give up all your children. You gonna vote for the lesser of those two evils? Evil is still evil, no matter how nuanced.

 

[Hudsonvalley82]

Lets say...lets say...lets say...

You sure talk a mean game, but I bet you pay your taxes like a champ. I can't wait until my flimsy plan for life falls completely apart, and I can take all of your well planned for money at the gun point of the government. They'll do all that for me just for the price of a vote...

You'll pay for my health coverage, food, electricity, and even give me some money for retirement!!!!
That is my life plan, and I'm coming to get you, the best part is, you have no idea who I am, what I look like, and what I am going to do with your money!!!

So basically lets say you consume 2,500 calories a day all fast food, illegally race motorcycles on the weekends, smoke tobacco and do heroin and binge drink on the weekends when you aren't working. You are also going around having unprotected sex. You expect everyone else to fucking subsidize your fucked up lifestyle and then when a vein collapses or you have a heart attack from the massive doses of processed food you eat you also want them to pay for your health care? Fuck off!!

You were born a cripple? I'm sorry, life is shit, make the most of it. There are charities out there that will help you. People will help you if you give them a chance, christ look at the octo mom, got herself some sugar daddy to take care of all her bills. Charity, not government goons sticking me up for whats in my wallet.