Rationalists - What Was Your Last Big False Belief You Reluctantly Gave Up?

[Heisenberg]

The OP's post about supplements hit me hard


While I do agree and think that supplement products are market-hyped bunk, I also believe the "power" that some say they have is directly attributed to psychological factors...I think they DO work, as placebos.

I think the mind is a verrry powerful organ that really does most of the magic when you consciously take a supplemental pill/powder with the INTENTION of nurturing and revitalizing your body. in other words, I think the "supplement" you're taking is already in your head- but actually physically taking a pill...and honestly believing in the product's powers... provides the catalyst needed for your own brain to act accordingly



we live in a society that doesn't encourage/support/promote this idea, no matter how strong or effective the placebo effect might be....because we value "hard science" and "strong evidence" over more spiritually conscious routes to healing


in western medicine, with "clinical testing" and trials, we actually strictly seek to remove all psychological "intention" of healing from the actual healing encounter

...but if we're not intent on healing our minds and bodies,... our spiritual wellness suffers...and so do we



so all together- i didn't ditch my prior beliefs about how supplements might work....but I now believe it's both INTENTION of health and actual whole foods that make healthy people healthy. I've worked in nursing homes for years in the past- and the healthiest residents always seemed to have one thing in common- each and every day held a strong sense of purpose and meaning for them, even if their schedule only consisted of eating a meal and watching a movie

Interesting ideas. The placebo effect is something I won't pretend to fully understand, as it has many counter-intuitive subtleties.

When we are looking for the truth of a subject we must remove all outside factors. This is why we aim to remove the placebo effect when evaluating new treatments. We must judge the treatment on it's own merit, not on the placebo effect. Otherwise drug companies would be allowed to market all kinds of medicine and claim it has benefits. You might then be taking the same inert drug for depression and then again for headache and not even know it. In the case of herbs and supplements there could be negative effects and interactions, so instead of taking them for the sake of placebo, why not just take sugar pills?

Placebo is more than just mind-over-matter.

Instead of simply being mind-over-matter, the placebo effect consists of a number of different components, some of which are pure artifact, which can lead to the appearance of a true improvement. Among these components is the tendency for symptoms to regress to the mean, which is probably the largest component of any placebo effect and the most likely reason why Maggie’s owner believes that she has responded to acupuncture. People tend to seek care for themselves or for their loved ones, pets included, when symptoms are at their peak. Other components of placebo include investment justification, novel or complicated therapy effects, or simply the desire to please an authority figure to name just a few.

So some of the placebo effect comes from just misinterpreting what's happening. I personally can see why these are things that need to be controlled for.

But even so, there is a true psychological component to placebos, and being clever humans it would seem we could find a way to harness that component. I don't see many studies with that goal in aim, and that is probably because there isn't much money in it.

 

[Heisenberg]

blind faith in science

Science is the opposite of blind faith. Science is justifiable faith; a faith based on results and replication. If you had blind faith in science, then It's great that you gave it up.

I too love playing devils advocate. My friends often go away thinking I feel one way on a subject, when I only presented my argument to probe their critical thinking abilities.

Your statement about people vs individual is spot on!

 

[budsmoker87]

dietary supplements are subject to NO regulation before entering the US market....but if there are complaints from consumers after they do enter the market, they're pulled promptly



i think intention can be a great healer...in my opinion, it has a lot to do with being in-touch with your body


just the other day I had a raging headache, and I immediately told myself "cup of tea would help ease the tension in my head." It was just an intuitive response, without much thought at all

i picked some tea in my backyard that I grow...boiled it, drank it, and it worked.

maybe cuz the water was warm and it relaxed me...maybe because I was simply dehydrated...maybe because I went outside to pick the tea and the feeling of gratitude, achievement and closeness with the natural world soothed my symptoms. maybe because the tea contained some phytonutrients that assisted my immune system in helping to ward off a cold that I was prone to

could've been any number of factors.

but the thing is- I don't see vitamins. I don't SEE minerals. do they even exist? well yes I'm told they do...but how much faith do I put into these nutrients being the actual healers. Healing, to me, isn't just a "clinically proven drug" or substance... it's the entire encounter/process- psychological factors- how I feel about it...nervous? do I think it'll work? or have I, maybe for the best, blindly adopted faith in it?


I think people ought to be taught to become more intune with their bodies and minds...healing- I think, is a very personal thing...as personal as growing or learning.


this subject interests me a lot...I graduated with a bachelors in human biology, but as complex as that is, there's only so much to talk about. to be quite honest, the discussions seem to become a pretty mundane and monotonous debate over "who can make the most connections to prove something" when really, nobody knows anything lol...it's science. it's verified speculation, nothing more, nothing less....that's the only reason why I don't appreciate the fact that western medicine seems to remove much of the intention of healing from the process


did my post make sense? i could talk about this all day im sure lol. goodnight

 

[budsmoker87]

Interesting ideas. The placebo effect is something I won't pretend to fully understand, as it has many counter-intuitive subtleties.

When we are looking for the truth of a subject we must remove all outside factors. This is why we aim to remove the placebo effect when evaluating new treatments. We must judge the treatment on it's own merit, not on the placebo effect. Otherwise drug companies would be allowed to market all kinds of medicine and claim it has benefits. You might then be taking the same inert drug for depression and then again for headache and not even know it. In the case of herbs and supplements there could be negative effects and interactions, so instead of taking them for the sake of placebo, why not just take sugar pills?

I disagree with your first sentence. I think we ought to weigh as many factors/variables as possible when determining what is acceptable marketable medicine...


but you did emphasize at the bottom of your post that the placebo/intention must be removed in order to deem it medicine so that it CAN be profitable on a large market scale


so I can see why the culture of medicine has gone this particular route, but like many others, I find indivduals to often times be amazing and I appreciate their differences and thoughts/ideas...which are always more difficult to pin point when you look at bigger population and ppl look as if they all behave with a mob-mentality, "follow the leader on tv" type of attitude

but at the end of the day, I will say that I think the best things in life are either free, or can be easily provided by one's self...cannabis included