It's A Fuct World

[Al B. Fuct]

Greetings and hallucinations. Got a bit of a break from the usual grind, so I thought I'd check in.

Have taken a bit of a stroll around the hydro forum. While there's some brilliant people doing brilliant things, a few folks have been drinking FarkingClueless™ by the megalitre.

While I DO have a little bit of free time at this moment, I don't have time to visit every thread and comment. I'll proffer these general observations, though:

* Laundry bleach (sodium hypochlorite, NaOCl) in hydroponics: Just Don't Do It. PLEASE. Use H2O2, 50% grade at 1ml/L of nute soln, applied every 3-4 days. Controls all pathogens and oxygenates roots when H2O2 breaks down. NaOCl is toxic to cannabis plants, as are its breakdown components, inclusive of NaCl (sodium chloride eg table salt).

* Molasses/sugar in hydroponics: LAST TIME- plants can't eat complex carbohydrates, but many pathogens CAN. You're growing cannabis in your hydroponic system- not anything else.

* Chlorinated municipal tap water is fine for hydroponics. Fancy water filtration systems are completely unnecessary. Chlorine, in the amounts applied by muni water treatment plants, is completely harmless to plants and people. High TDS readings from 'hard' water are caused primarily by dissolved minerals like Ca and Mg, both of which are necessary micronutrients. Any water suitable for drinking is excellent for hydroponics. The only reason one would ever have to ever use expensive RO or filtration systems is if one is sourcing water from a local bore/well, where water may contain high levels of salinity or sulfur. In 25 years of growing dope, I've never once seen tapwater from a municipal system cause problems in a hydroponic grow op.

* Organic hydroponics: Is complete nonsense. The 'organic' buzzword is overused and largely misunderstood by the general public. 'Organic' doesn't mean 'good' or 'better.' It means that the material in question is sourced from a biological system. Organic nutrients are, in actual fact, mostly shit. Compost and manures themselves are not assimilable by plants; it's the breakdown components, N, P & K, which plants eat. There's no difference between the N, P & K obtained via organic matter breaking down and that obtained from "chemical" aka inorganic fertilisers. However, inorganic nutes allow you to precisely and CONSISTENTLY control the amount of N, P & K presented to the plants. With 'organic' nutes, you never really know what the precise amounts and ratios of N, P & K your plants will actually get. Moreover, inorganic nutes are not affected by the use of H2O2 in hydroponic nute solns. Inorganic based hydro systems are clean, tanks are clear and such systems are much easier to maintain, especially for the newbish. Now, before some holy organic evangelist upbraids me for not knowing what I'm talking about, know ye this: my veg patch out back is run on organic principles; my cannabis plant waste, lawn clips and kitchen veg cuttings are composted and incorporated into the garden soil after spending about a year breaking down in the compost bins. It works pretty well- outdoors, where I don't give a damn how many bugs & microbes are hanging about. In my indoor hydroponic grow-op, I want to have only ONE living organism: cannabis plants.

So, wut up, dawg?

 

[doniawon]

Your a golden god. thanks AL.

 

[disposition84]

Nice to have one of the bigtimers back in the hydro section, even if it is for a short stint.

Getting kinda boring around here.

 

[shnkrmn]

Hi Al!

I use bleach, RO and the pulsing heart of a young goat every new moon, but I'm smoothly perpetual thanks to you.

Happy New Year!

 

[doniawon]

Hey Al.. i remember gypse bush use to run 1200 start to finish no flush. What was your preference, to flush or not to flush?? also in your opinion whats the best commercial yeilding sog variety you have seen.. shnkrmn, your chronic has been "heavy" on my mind

 

[kevin]

welcome back al, glad to see a pro like you around here.

 

[Butthead08]

yo al i just moved into my house, and for the first time ever i have well water instead of city. your saying i should buy some kind of ro system? what do you think about those cheap brita things you hook on your sink? would that be sufficient?

 

[Al B. Fuct]

You're a golden god. thanks AL.

That's what all the girls say.

Nice to have one of the bigtimers back in the hydro section, even if it is for a short stint.

Getting kinda boring around here.

Well, we certainly can't have BORING. I'll try to focus my housefly-level attention span here for a few days. Bear in mind that I'm still quite happily running the op described oh-so-long ago in Get a harvest every 2 weeks and still using the methods as contained in A batch of clones in rockwool, except for using only plain tapwater these days for soaking RW cubes and for watering clones. Nothing else needed.

Hi Al!

I use bleach, RO and the pulsing heart of a young goat every new moon, but I'm smoothly perpetual thanks to you.

Happy New Year!

This made me larf out loud.

And HNY to you, too.

Hey Al.. i remember gypse bush use to run 1200 start to finish no flush. What was your preference, to flush or not to flush?? also in your opinion whats the best commercial yeilding sog variety you have seen.. shnkrmn, your chronic has been "heavy" on my mind

1100-1200 is fine, if a bit toward the strong end of the spectrum. Flushing is optional. I don't bother, all my tanks run the same mix, 1000-1100ppm @ 5.8. The best strains for SoG are predominantly indica hybrids- and there's lots of those around.

welcome back al, glad to see a pro like you around here.

Cheers, kevin.

 

[Al B. Fuct]

yo al i just moved into my house, and for the first time ever i have well water instead of city. your saying i should buy some kind of ro system? what do you think about those cheap brita things you hook on your sink? would that be sufficient?

Well/bore water can cause problems, particularly if the salinity is high. Get your water tested. You may find some state/county extension resources for free or very cheap water quality testing. Failing that, check with a local university. Gotta know what you're starting with. Brita filters may work in some situations but they are very slow and not very useful for treating large quantities of water. My system has about 550 litres of tank volume- I can't imagine what a pain in the ass it would be to filter 550L of water for my bi-weekly tank dumps. An RO system may be useful if your water quality tests indicate high salinity. If the salinity is OK for drinking (100-200ppm), it'll be OK for plants in hydroponics.

 

[Al B. Fuct]

While I'm here, I've got to comment on 'magic sauces.' I was in my local hydro shop the other day and noticed they've expanded the range of magical rubbish by a factor of 2, at least. If you're using a good quality inorganic nutrient (I use Canna nutes), you simply will have no need for anything else beyond H2O2 and perhaps some phosphoric acid based pH Down. You'll find that good nutes already include pH buffers that will set the pH of most tapwater to 5.8-6.0 when you mix for 1000-1100ppm. However, when you top up tanks (always with plain tapwater), the pH may wander upward somewhat. Correct it carefully with pH Down- and don't overshoot. Too low is as bad as too high.

Dump your tanks every 2 weeks and mix entirely new solution. Don't try to add nute concentrates to a half-eaten tank of nutes. You'll have no way of knowing if the NPK ratios are correct- but I can guarantee you that they won't be.

 

[Al B. Fuct]

One more comment on using bore/well water; it's pretty unlikely that you'll have a chlorination system, meaning there's no pathogen inhibitor in your water. Chlorination in muni water will prevent most pathogen growth until the chlorine evaporates, which takes about 1-2 days in an open rez tank. Bore water users must pay particular attention to pathogen inhibition with H2O2. Apply 50% grade H2O2 at 1ml/L freaking religiously, from the instant you make up a new tank of sauce and every 3-4 days thereafter until you dump your solutions at the 2-week mark.

 

[Al B. Fuct]

On flushing: The only thing you really need to flush is your toilet. There's no particular need to flush or leach cannabis plants before harvesting, but you can do it if you want. The plants store about 2 weeks worth of nutes, so you can safely give plants plain water, no pH correction needed, in weeks 6-8.

'Clearex' is completely unnecessary and falls into the dreaded 'magic sauce' category, that is, things that your local hydro shop are happy to take your dough for that won't really do anything. Nothing but time will cause plants to consume the remaining stored nutrients.

 

[Inthewind]

Hey Al,
I'm looking for a source for the 50%. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

I'm also wondering if you know of any of the signs of H2o2 overuse. I've been using 3ml per gal of 29% in an aeroponic PVC setup/25 gal res, with nirvana short riders/bubblelicious and have feed related wilting. My ppms are low with BC nutes around 500, RO, PH between 5.8 with drift to 6.1. The only other thing Im doing is dropping the PH.

Didn't mean to hijack but looking for an experienced view.

Thanks

 

[Al B. Fuct]

Hey Al,
I'm looking for a source for the 50%. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

I'm also wondering if you know of any of the signs of H2o2 overuse. I've been using 3ml per gal of 29%in an aeroponic PVC setup/25 gal res, with nirvana short riders/bubblelicious and have feed related wilting. My ppms are low with BC nuts, around 500, RO, PH between 5.8 with drift to 6.1. The only other thing Im doing is dropping the PH.

Didn't mean to hijack but looking for an experienced view.

Thanks

You're not hijacking at all. I'm here for a few days specifically to answer queries like this, but thanks for your politeness.

It's really hard to overuse H2O2. It's so hard to overuse it that I can't really tell you what the symptoms would be. I've never deiberately exposed a plant to straight 50% grade H2O2, but sometime when I'm thinking of it and have some excess rooted clones which would normally go to compost, I'll try it and get back to you.

Plants will happily tolerate 10x the dose I usually suggest (1ml/L of 50% grade). A system which has a big pathogen load can be hit with 10ml/L of the 50% grade as a once-off shock treatment, but a system which has been dosed regularly, every 3-4 days at 1ml/L from day 1 shouldn't have a big load.

50% grade is usually available from hydro shops but failing that, check foodservice or general chemical supply houses. I persuaded my local hydro shop to buy in a pallet of 25L jugs of 50% grade from a local chemical house. I pay $AUD90 for 25L 'carboy' jugs.

If all you can get is 29%, use 1.75ml/L or 6.7ml/gallon. Make friends with the metric system. It's an awful lot easier to use than imperial figures.

 

[Jhaz]

my city water is 520 ppm out of the tap and sat out for 2 days...i can only use 20% of nutes im suppose to because ppm gets to high...do you suggest a ro system in my case? if so i just need to add cal mag in the tanks along with my nutes?

also have powdery mildew issues, i been using #% h202 mixed one ounce to 1 quart, i sprayed today then was going to start using serenade to keep it under control...when should i start using it? do i soak the plants or mist them? how often do u suggest doing it? plants are 2nd week of flowering

 

[Al B. Fuct]

my city water is 520 ppm out of the tap and sat out for 2 days...i can only use 20% of nutes im suppose to because ppm gets to high...do you suggest a ro system in my case? if so i just need to add cal mag in the tanks along with my nutes?

The high ppm is being caused by Mg & Ca, both of which are essential nutes and will not contribute to nute burn, which is caused by excessive nitrogen. Subtract the tapwater TDS figure from the TDS you mix to, i.e. if you want 1000ppm and tapwater is 520, mix for 1520ppm.

also have powdery mildew issues, i been using #% h202 mixed one ounce to 1 quart, i sprayed today then was going to start using serenade to keep it under control...when should i start using it? do i soak the plants or mist them? how often do u suggest doing it? plants are 2nd week of flowering

H2O2 is not terribly effective against powdery mildew because it would have to be reapplied frequently to kill every mould spore that landed on the plants. Get a sulfur "burner." Alarm quotes used because they do not burn sulfur, rather evaporates it with a heating element. Use a timer to run the sulfur evaporator during lights off. Start with about 10 mins, 2x per lights off, right after lights off and just before. A dehumidifier will reduce the humidity in the room. You're looking for about 60% max RH. Improving ventilation may also help if the intake air is under the 60% max RH. If the intake air is over 60%, improving ventilation won't cut it.

 

[Jhaz]

The high ppm is being caused by Mg & Ca, both of which are essential nutes and will not contribute to nute burn, which is caused by excessive nitrogen. Subtract the tapwater TDS figure from the TDS you mix to, i.e. if you want 1000ppm and tapwater is 520, mix for 1520ppm.



H2O2 is not terribly effective against powdery mildew because it would have to be reapplied frequently to kill every mould spore that landed on the plants. Get a sulfur "burner." Alarm quotes used because they do not burn sulfur, rather evaporates it with a heating element. Use a timer to run the sulfur evaporator during lights off. Start with about 10 mins, 2x per lights off, right after lights off and just before. A dehumidifier will reduce the humidity in the room. You're looking for about 60% max RH. Improving ventilation may also help if the intake air is under the 60% max RH. If the intake air is over 60%, improving ventilation won't cut it.

cool man thanks...the powdery mildew was on clones when i got them...i been spraying h202 once every few days and it keeps it in check...but now its flowering im switching to the serenade before it ruins my crop

i will get a suphar burner in 2 months when i move..but rigth now im in a apt building and the grows in my bedroom...cant risk the management asking why my apt smells so shitty

i just upped my nutes to 1500 from 1200 and ill see what happens with it tomorrow..
my rh stays at50% max i have a 16inch oscilating fan in the middle of a 3x6 table and has a good air flow, i have a 440 cfm exhaust fan and a 6 inch standard fan as a intaketemps stay mid 70s during day and 68 at night

 

[drgreentm]

whats up al nice to see you on here again. read allot of your threads and they are very helpful thank you very much. i have 2 2x4 flood tables on a perpetual 4 week harvest time and just have a ? about my nutes if you dont mind. i run flora nova grow/bloom one part mix and it is supposed to be half/half of organic and synthetic ph stable but the problem is it is very thick almost like mud and leaves my res's very dirty and hell of a time to clean. would you just recommend changing to a full synthetic mix so i could use h202 or what else could i do?? thanks again.

 

[gudkarma]

other than the general banter you'll find in any thread(s), i've digested & applied your info to the maximus.

ton of questions, good sir.
tons.

straight to business.

6 months into a new lab setup ...straight SOG ...on ebb tables with square pots & hydroton.

rather than four tables, my space allows me to run three tables on a three week rotation ...using strains that finish in 7 to 9 weeks.

nevertheless, there's a few fellows more than i working through your "system" or variations thereof.

too, after so much experimentation in various media, i can't see where/how 1000ppm is necessay when i get excellent results @ 800 to 850ppm max (and that's in weeks 7-9).

on the same note, when i go from the cloner to my first tray at anything over 500ppm my plants look like total shit for days & days on end. i cant see how high nute concentrations help at this stage. comments?

so what do you suggest (in general) as base ppm concentrations for each tray in the rotation? i see someone earlier in this thread notes a friend running 1200ppm from beginning to end, wtf?

do you clone at the same ph as your first table (weeks 1-2 , 1-3 for me) to make the transition easier?

imo, the art of this entire growing method rests on your ability to bust roots on clones.

often, you discussed going straight from the cloner to the table. with straight tap water, i'm curious as to the type of root development your plants have/had when they hit the table. are we talking nubs or beards?

in SOG, early root development is critical to the amount of strech you'll get (outside of genetics) from any given strain ...yes?

regarding the above question, what do you think about extra veg time for the cuts? i'm finding 2 weeks veg time after rooting has a better overall effect on yeild than anything else i've tried.

what about additives of any kind?

obviously there's a fixed number of plants i can get on a tray. i've been experimenting with with a low concentration (1/4 reccomended) of a popular bloom booster to try & enhance yeild.

imo, it's not about running a booster all the time but applying it for a few days (then changing out the rez) at the right time.

thoughts here?

please dont wander off... i'm not done with you yet

 

[Highhopes99]

Wow, al b fuct say it ain't so.
So is the bleach thing really no good? I was set on getting a meter to monitor the chlorine in my res. I was exited about killing all my pathogens with a 5 dollar jug of bleach. My roots turned brown the other day and all my attempts with h202 did not prevent much. I was adding up to 2 ml per liter. ( flood and drain, rock wool pots, flooded once a day when loose half water weight, canna nutes 1000ppm, ph 5.8 but rising daily). Hey, by the way. So your clones are working better with just yap water. No ph? No h202? I found mine worked better the same way straight tap water. And a little powder. I thought your old technique was working like clock work?