Congresswoman on Palin's "Hit List" shot

Hudsonvalley82

Well-Known Member
No, its a fact that more than 17% of the guns in mexico are from the US, the assumption is how much more than 17% the number is due to the traceability issues. Departments don't really have the time to ID every single gun confiscated by mexican/US authorities...
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
ALL the worlds health systems fail at curing mentally ill people. The mind is incredibly complex and no one has found a cure yet. The best they can do is keep those people in a drug induced nirvana so they become harmless automatons and live the rest of their life institutionalized. This has NOTHING to do with Healthcare.
what happens in your head, your mental health, has to do with health care.

the mind is the body's most powerful organ, if it's not healthy, your not healthy.

it has to do with health care, it doesn't have to do with the rest of the world....
 

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
No, its a fact that more than 17% of the guns in mexico are from the US, the assumption is how much more than 17% the number is due to the traceability issues. Departments don't really have the time to ID every single gun confiscated by mexican/US authorities...
Excuses, excuses. ASSumption Boy!

Note: I am only using the word 'boy' in the demeaning sense. You could be a girl for all I know...

or care.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
what happens in your head, your mental health, has to do with health care.

the mind is the body's most powerful organ, if it's not healthy, your not healthy.

it has to do with health care, it doesn't have to do with the rest of the world....
No, what happens in your head is due to you, your upbringing, a chemical imbalance, Traumatic events, or a physical malady. People don't go insane because they don't have health care.
 

Hudsonvalley82

Well-Known Member
Yeah, and health care has treatments for mentally unstable people, most states have programs for people who can't afford it to keep them off the streets and to took the public safe should they be declared violent or dangerous, all for the best interests of public safety.

Sanitariums, although crude, have had a place in the past for ages as it has been well known that mentally unstable people shouldn't be left to their own devices. The mental programs in place now are progressions (much more humane progressions) of those institutions. Unfortunately cuts in federal tax revenue have put a damper on state aid and such institutions have had to be severely downsized to balance budgets and such programs have been slashed, nearly 50% in the case of AZ.

No, what happens in your head is due to you, your upbringing, a chemical imbalance, Traumatic events, or a physical malady. People don't go insane because they don't have health care.
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
I found this to be a nice read..

Dear Sarah Palin:
I am writing today about how you are responding to and how you will respond to the assassination attempt on Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords and the murders of six other people.
By way of introduction and background, I am a cousin of Congresswoman Giffords. I am also an ally of Dr. George Tiller, the Kansas doctor who provided abortion services and who was assassinated on May 31, 2009.
When the Congresswoman’s offices were vandalized after her vote on healthcare reform, I wrote to her. As I recall, I congratulated her on her strong spirit in the face of that attack and other threats. I told her that I was proud of her courage on behalf of health care reform and sorry that she had to show the same courage as those who provide health care to pregnant women who need abortions and other reproductive health care services. Both have been the subjects of hateful, vitriolic language. Both have been put in rifle crosshairs.
In the aftermath of the murder of Dr. Tiller and the attempted murder of Congresswoman Giffords, many have spoken out about the role that hateful language played or might have played in encouraging these acts of violence. Immediately after Congresswoman Giffords was shot, many people voiced concern about such things as your "Take Back the 20" map targeting congressional districts of those representatives, including Congresswoman Giffords, who voted for health care reform by placing their districts in the crosshairs of a gun sight. Commentators have also noted your advice to people disappointed in the outcome of the 2008 elections to “lock and load” and “don’t retreat, reload.”
As I am sure you are now aware, Congresswoman Giffords herself had expressed concern about your map in particular. She said: “We need to realize that the rhetoric, and the firing people up and ... for example, we're on Sarah Palin's targeted list, but the thing is, the way she has it depicted, we're in the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they've got to realize that there are consequences to that action...”
Your response so far, has been to defend the images and language you use. In an e-mail to Mr. Glenn Beck you said, “Our children will not have peace if politicos just capitalize on this to succeed in portraying anyone as inciting terror and violence.”
Ms. Palin, the moment calls for more than this. I am a strong supporter of the First Amendment and of your right to defend your words and to challenge those who seek to connect them to the assassination attempt and murders in Tucson, Arizona. I also know that there is often a very long distance between words and actions.
But even if your map and your language had nothing to do with these murders or any others that might occur in the future, a compassionate response would acknowledge that possibility and indicate a willingness, in her honor, in honor of the people who died, to consider this concern.
Whether or not you are willing to take this concern seriously, it is, nevertheless a critical moment to clarify your beliefs and principles. Now is the time to answer these questions and lead.
Do you believe it is appropriate to bring about political change in America through the use of or threat of violence?
When you suggest targeting candidates, use gun-sight crosshairs to do so, and speak repeatedly about guns, locking and reloading do you mean that violence is or could be properly used to encourage or ensure certain outcomes of elections or legislative votes?
If you do not mean literally that elected officials should be targeted with rifles and threatened by political activists armed with loaded weapons, what do you mean? What should politically frustrated Americans do when their views are not prevailing?
Throughout the course of history people have demonstrated that the most effective change comes through non-violent action. Many of us believe that the most courageous leaders and activists are those who are willing to be attacked for their beliefs not those who threaten to attack.
Ms. Palin, if you are among those who believe that political change can come about non-violently, without hate, violence, or the threat of violence, now would be an excellent time to say so.
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
kinda confused as to how his friend knew what he did all the time...Some friends have no clue as to what I do :weed:....and didn't he cut off all his "friends"...did they not have a tv or radio in the house ????what about a computer...he was listening to something...
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
a highschool friend. say he graduated when he was 17.

5 years had passed. that's a lot of time. a lot of tv time.... :)

and he wasn't into tv or radio, he just loved ZEITGEIST. quite possibly the most alarmist, 'panicky', and fear-mongering production ever completed. it's also full of violent references and rhetoric.

thanks for the great link!!!
 

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
kinda confused as to how his friend knew what he did all the time...Some friends have no clue as to what I do :weed:....and didn't he cut off all his "friends"...did they not have a tv or radio in the house ????what about a computer...he was listening to something...
a highschool friend. say he graduated when he was 17.

5 years had passed. that's a lot of time. a lot of tv time.... :)
More ASSumptions.

You clowns are AWESOME!
 

BudMcLovin

Active Member
I found this to be a nice read..


Whether or not you are willing to take this concern seriously, it is, nevertheless a critical moment to clarify your beliefs and principles. Now is the time to answer these questions and lead.
Do you believe it is appropriate to bring about political change in America through the use of or threat of violence?
Has she ever encourage political violence if so please show proof of actual encouragement not metaphors.
When you suggest targeting candidates, use gun-sight crosshairs to do so, and speak repeatedly about guns, locking and reloading do you mean that violence is or could be properly used to encourage or ensure certain outcomes of elections or legislative votes?
Again assumptions made by the author that she wants actual violence completely ignoring the context of her remarks.
If you do not mean literally that elected officials should be targeted with rifles and threatened by political activists armed with loaded weapons, what do you mean? What should politically frustrated Americans do when their views are not prevailing?
In case you missed it frustrated Americans have been trying to change the direction in this country for at least the last 4 years.
Throughout the course of history people have demonstrated that the most effective change comes through non-violent action. Many of us believe that the most courageous leaders and activists are those who are willing to be attacked for their beliefs not those who threaten to attack. Has she not been attack repeatedly for her views and background? Isn’t that the whole intent of this “letter”.
Ms. Palin, if you are among those who believe that political change can come about non-violently, without hate, violence, or the threat of violence, now would be an excellent time to say so.

Where’s your link? Is this supposed to be serious response or just another attack on Palin. I’m thinking the later. Whoever wrote this has to be 12 or a moron. Here’s an idea grow up and release people are responsible for their own actions. Prove a connection to anything Sara Palin said or shut the fuck up about it already. Prove he was at a rally, watched a speech, bookmarked here website, anything just show some actual proof that he was in anyway linked to her or the tea party instead of more bullshit speculation. We get you blame her and anyone who doesn’t think like you so prove it or move on.
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Where’s your link? Is this supposed to be serious response or just another attack on Palin. I’m thinking the later. Whoever wrote this has to be 12 or a moron. Here’s an idea grow up and release people are responsible for their own actions. Prove a connection to anything Sara Palin said or shut the fuck up about it already. Prove he was at a rally, watched a speech, bookmarked here website, anything just show some actual proof that he was in anyway linked to her or the tea party instead of more bullshit speculation. We get you blame her and anyone who doesn’t think like you so prove it or move on.
I think you missing the whole point of the argument here..Its the tone...We all need to change the way we talk...We all need to realize that you are responsible for your words...The point of Sarah making tones such as Don't retreat reload..or the maps with the gun sights on the very person who was shot in the head ( this alone should be enough to say all right we get the point )...and no I won't shut the fuck up...Kinda funny that you defend Sarah and her tone, but tell me to shut the fuck up..lol...and heres a link to the letter
http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/node/15258
 

BudMcLovin

Active Member
I think you missing the whole point of the argument here..Its the tone...We all need to change the way we talk...We all need to realize that you are responsible for your words...The point of Sarah making tones such as Don't retreat reload..or the maps with the gun sights on the very person who was shot in the head ( this alone should be enough to say all right we get the point )...and no I won't shut the fuck up...Kinda funny that you defend Sarah and her tone, but tell me to shut the fuck up..lol...and heres a link to the letter
http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/node/15258

I’ll defend a person's right to say whatever they want. And I’ll also call a person out on the bullshit they try to sell. Show a connection to this so called "hateful and violent rhetoric". You say the debate is about the political tone then discuss instead of trying to blame someone for another’s actions. Which is all I've seen in your post. A great example is that pathetic attempt letter you just posted. It's not about opening up a dialogue it's an attempt to attack and smear. Now please show a connection or stop trying to paint one.

Here's a oretty good yahoo arti
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
The political angle of this has been revealed to be a FARCE because the Left spews just as much vitriol as the Right.
that is just dumb. either that, or you are blind and deaf. if you are blind and deaf, i will retract my original remark regarding the dumbness of your statement.

please show me where someone on the left used gun metaphors and subtle yet crafty incitements to violence last year. i can find them all over the right, especilly 'tea party darlings'. pelosi warned about this in 2009, the words do not always fall upon ears as stable as the mouth they come from.

even if loughner somehow lived in a vacuum like so many people on the right would like to delude themselves into believing, and even if he never heard a single crafty call to violence against specific public officials like so many people on the right would like to delude themselves into believing, what about next time? is there no one else out there that could possibly be influenced by this type of hate speech from the very top of the party? are you that fucking thick?

and who else, like me, thinks that there are about 7,601 better phrases than 'blood libel'? her use of this anti-semitic, very loaded term is another perfect example of why she needs to exit stage left and GO AWAY. we know she is feeling some moral turpitude, otherwise she would not have immediately taken down her infamous crosshairs map...so why did she not discuss that, and the lessons we can take from this tragedy, rather than diffusing and fleeing from all moral responsibility as quickly as possible?
 

tet1953

Well-Known Member


Show a connection to this so called "hateful and violent rhetoric".
So far, it's looking like there isn't a connection -- this time. But, what if there was? What if, Laugner in his rantings had espoused Palin's philosphy, referenced the ad directly, even. What happens to your free speech argument then? It's hypothetical I know, but I believe it's only a matter of time if the tone doesn't get better.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member


I’ll defend a person's right to say whatever they want....Show a connection to this so called "hateful and violent rhetoric". .
so, you would defend the right of someone to yell "fire" in a crowded theater? seems like a DUMB idea to me.

and it doesn't matter if there was any connection. it is likely that there is, people don't live in vacuums, you know, especially people that shoot elected officials. but let's suppose for the sake of argument there was ZERO connection...this time.

how long before there is?

and yet you support pushing it until there is. good job defending hate speech.

PS - since you support the right of anyone to say whatever they want, i'm sure you will support me in my new hobby: posting falsehoods about you and your family depicting you to be treasonous terrorists trying to take down america from the inside. i will include several nuanced references for people to use guns to kill you and your family and post your address, names, activities, schedules. i appreciate you supporting me and my right to do this :roll:

fucking dumb all over. can't fix that.
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
I think we as a nation are in trouble....I hope RIU is not a true reflection of the people of this country... we have the right to bear arms ...but if you show that you are not responsible to carry one we all agree that you should not....You have the right to Free Speech but if you can't be responsible for your own words then what ????? again we are in trouble as a nation. Think I will buy one of those doom kits from Glenn Beck
 

BudMcLovin

Active Member
so, you would defend the right of someone to yell "fire" in a crowded theater? seems like a DUMB idea to me.
and it doesn't matter if there was any connection. it is likely that there is, people don't live in vacuums, you know, especially people that shoot elected officials. but let's suppose for the sake of argument there was ZERO connection...this time.

how long before there is?

and yet you support pushing it until there is. good job defending hate speech.

PS - since you support the right of anyone to say whatever they want, i'm sure you will support me in my new hobby: posting falsehoods about you and your family depicting you to be treasonous terrorists trying to take down america from the inside. i will include several nuanced references for people to use guns to kill you and your family and post your address, names, activities, schedules. i appreciate you supporting me and my right to do this :roll:

fucking dumb all over. can't fix that.
HAHAHA hate speech. Hahaha typical liberal response, completely ignore the facts and personally attack the person. Hahaha you guys crack me up.

You can say whatever you want about me and my family. We all carry so you pull yours, we’ll pull ours and they’ll be a bunch of shot up mother fuckers. Of course if protesters showed up at my home I think salt shot would be as effective on them as it is on stray dogs and kids rolling yards. Plus I’d have to sue you for defamation and use the government in a way you think it should be, taking your property and give it to me.

Was the congresswoman shot at her house? I’m not positive on this but I bet she post a schedule of events on her website. If I were a politian trying to stay in touch with the people I would.

If you yell fire in a theater and someone is injured there is a direct link between your actions you should be held accountable. Let me try to explain it to you. Charles Manson and John Jones brainwashed ordered people to do terrible things. They belong in jail for their actions; of course Jones is dead but still.

Sara Palin didn’t order anyone to attack anyone. She never even suggested it. Even if the guy had been a big supporter of hers I would not hold her responsible as long as she didn't order it or strongly suggest it. The crazy person who did the deed is the responsible party. Are we all supposed to walk around on egg shells because some crazy might react negatively? Oh and the ad was taking aim on the congresswoman’s district not her.
 
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