1000w Coco Multi-strain Medicinal Grow

[Snow Crash]

No, I take the ppm of the water and use about 38% of that ppm value as calcium, and 8% as magnesium. The rest is usually a combination of metals, sodium, sulfates, and nitrates. I've added in that variation to better represent the actual ppm levels of micro-nutrients.

I have made quite a few little variations to my table. Canna Coco A+B tests at 18% higher than advertised so I account for that as well.

I also plan on doing a side-by-side at some point.
The plan for this spring/summer is to set up a coco SOG in 1 gallon planters with clones of my mothered plants. Probably a lot of Warlock. Going for 16 plants in a 4x4 foot print under the 1000w for maximum buddages. This way I can burn up the rest of my Canna and the excess crap I have purchased. After that I'm going to repeat but with the CNS 17 system, same genetics and what not, just to see how each is different. Not really "side-by-side" but close enough.

I look forward to your experiments.

 

[t0rn]

Yo, thanks for the pecentages as you see them in the water, the straight calcium added to make up for the tap is what was screwing my numbers up. I've done these 3 at a starting ppm of 0 just to see only what's in the nutes themselves. All 3 are on there, wasn't how to use Canna as their website really doesn't say other than 1:1.

Grow table:

Botanicare ppm at 20ml: 560
GH ppm at 20ml: 708
Canna ppm at 20ml: 551

Bloom table:

Botanicare ppm at 20ml: 588
GH ppm at 20ml: 674
Canna ppm at 20ml: 547

Ripe table:

Botanicare ppm at 20ml: 644
GH ppm at 20ml: 640
Canna ppm at 20ml: 543

 

[Snow Crash]

Canna is 1:1 the whole time because of the concentration of nutrients. They keep the calcium and the phosphorus apart to keep them from reacting.

The idea behind Canna is that the coco builds up a buffer of Calcium and Potassium as you grow. The CannaZym at 0-2-1 provides a phosphate boost that coco needs and provides the flowering requirements. Since the coco medium changes as you grow in it they run the same base system start to finish.

I am finding this to be a bunch of hoopla.

Early on you need a good deal of Nitrogen and Calcium, but high levels of everything is okay. Then you just start lowering the N and Ca and increasing the PK and Mg. It's pretty easy to supplement their system, but it's a pain to have to.

 

[t0rn]

More tables oh my!

These show ppm numbers throughout and I applied the FloraDuo ratio method to Canna, probably not the right way to use it, but the numbers seemed to follow along with the Botanicare swing.

Grow:


Bloom:


Ripe:

 

[t0rn]

Canna is 1:1 the whole time because of the concentration of nutrients. They keep the calcium and the phosphorus apart to keep them from reacting.

The idea behind Canna is that the coco builds up a buffer of Calcium and Potassium as you grow. The CannaZym at 0-2-1 provides a phosphate boost that coco needs and provides the flowering requirements. Since the coco medium changes as you grow in it they run the same base system start to finish.

I am finding this to be a bunch of hoopla.

Early on you need a good deal of Nitrogen and Calcium, but high levels of everything is okay. Then you just start lowering the N and Ca and increasing the PK and Mg. It's pretty easy to supplement their system, but it's a pain to have to.

I don't think coco changes perfectly with the changing needs of the plant, feeding it the same thing throughout the grow doesn't make sense to me. Are they forcing you to buy bloom boosters at this point?

 

[Snow Crash]

Yup. You have to supplement their system in my opinion. At least for Cannabis you do.

Liquid KoolBloom is working well enough during bloom at 0-10-10 made from magnesium phosphate, potassium phosphate, and potassium sulfate. I wish I had something to get the P levels a little higher... Instead I have some AN Big Bud that has really high K levels... The CannaZym is basically indispensable with the A+B and I don't have it... lol ...

 

[t0rn]

As you look at the second set of charts, the numbers and ratios of numbers remain relatively the same on the Botanicare and my modified Canna A & B, but it looks like GH likes to use a SHIT TON of Potassium in their mix, and 0 Sulfur.

WW-c, d, and e are now popping their little helmets out of their little coco pots, 18 hours to germ and another 48 hours to pop out of the soil for all 3 seeds. Hopefully none have the down syndrome like seed b did (rip).

Yup. You have to supplement their system in my opinion. At least for Cannabis you do.

Liquid KoolBloom is working well enough during bloom at 0-10-10 made from magnesium phosphate, potassium phosphate, and potassium sulfate. I wish I had something to get the P levels a little higher... Instead I have some AN Big Bud that has really high K levels... The CannaZym is basically indispensable with the A+B and I don't have it... lol ...

Next on the nute list for me is a silicate product, thanks for showing me Pro-Tek, seems like a good bang for the buck. Next on the list would be an enzyme product as I plan on reusing my coco a few times. Thinking Hygrozyme when I do go that route.

 

[Snow Crash]

Next on the nute list for me is a silicate product, thanks for showing me Pro-Tek, seems like a good bang for the buck. Next on the list would be an enzyme product as I plan on reusing my coco a few times. Thinking Hygrozyme when I do go that route.

Hygrozyme is on my list too. I'd really like to give Atami Bloombastic a try also.

 

[t0rn]

Pictures from last night are up on page 57 if you're just getting here, it's been a chat-room all day lol.

 

[420Marine]

T0rn didn't you use Azos..how was it or how do you think it is..extreme gardening right???

 

[t0rn]

Yea, I've used it but in all honesty I've received a lot of free samples of bennies and I use all of them at once when I transplant. I only use Azos when I first transplant from the dome into a little vegging pot.

No scientific stuff to report there because I haven't used a control plant, but my roots are bangin'.

 

[420Marine]

good deal was just curious what you thought roots banging = all good.

 

[Snow Crash]

I was doing some research last night.

With 1qt of CNS 17 Grow, Bloom, and Ripe, following their system in Grow and then taking it a little easier in bloom, a person could grow 6 fairly large sized plants (3 gallons soution/week/plant at the height) for a whopping cost of about $25. I ran the ppm levels in my spreadsheet for all the phases of a grow and it's dialed really well in the profile. The predicted EC is a little high but I'll have to test it myself before coming to any conclusion.

Add in $12 for a 50L block of coco and then the cost of the planters and drainage...

$100 gets a person everything they would need to grow six, beautiful, plants limited only by the lighting and the time frame. That's... amazing considering that most nutrient systems will total up to at least $200, not including media or planters. The proof is in the pudding too. Adding a $25 bottle of root inoculate for early development would be nice but probably not necessary.

I think a combo of Roots Organic coco/soil mix plus the CNS 17 Coco/Soil nutrients is such a perfect fit. Maybe you could give that a shot with some of your clones t0rn? It'd be an easy way to go organic and I know you've been toying with the idea. Just reduce the nutrient levels a touch because there's some food in the mix and for like $15 you could be running a few organic plants. 24 month composting time. Coco Fiber/Coir, bat guano, earth worm castings, fish bone meal, feather meal, green sand, mycorrihzae, glacial rock dust, soybean meal, humic acid, perlite, pumice, and some proprietary ingredients. Better than I could make on my own.

 

[BlueChronic]

If you want some good flowers, pay attention to the rooting during veg, and especially in coco, roots grow amazing... ridiculously amazing lol b-1 solution works wonders at literally taking over almost the entire pot with roots of all kinds, and HEALTHY roots too

REALLY BEAUTIFUL babies there t0rn!!

 

[420Marine]

Snow would it interest u that I'm running a complete roots organic system ATM...the reason I ask is b/c I would like to figure out total cost per plant as well

 

[t0rn]

I was doing some research last night.

With 1qt of CNS 17 Grow, Bloom, and Ripe, following their system in Grow and then taking it a little easier in bloom, a person could grow 6 fairly large sized plants (3 gallons soution/week/plant at the height) for a whopping cost of about $25. I ran the ppm levels in my spreadsheet for all the phases of a grow and it's dialed really well in the profile. The predicted EC is a little high but I'll have to test it myself before coming to any conclusion.

Add in $12 for a 50L block of coco and then the cost of the planters and drainage...

$100 gets a person everything they would need to grow six, beautiful, plants limited only by the lighting and the time frame. That's... amazing considering that most nutrient systems will total up to at least $200, not including media or planters. The proof is in the pudding too. Adding a $25 bottle of root inoculate for early development would be nice but probably not necessary.

I think a combo of Roots Organic coco/soil mix plus the CNS 17 Coco/Soil nutrients is such a perfect fit. Maybe you could give that a shot with some of your clones t0rn? It'd be an easy way to go organic and I know you've been toying with the idea. Just reduce the nutrient levels a touch because there's some food in the mix and for like $15 you could be running a few organic plants. 24 month composting time. Coco Fiber/Coir, bat guano, earth worm castings, fish bone meal, feather meal, green sand, mycorrihzae, glacial rock dust, soybean meal, humic acid, perlite, pumice, and some proprietary ingredients. Better than I could make on my own.

What I'm thinking about doing is running half CNS17 half Botanicare Pure-Blend Original as a base. With inert coco you know what you're getting. Pure-Blend Original, not the Pro, is all natural shit like guano, kelp, etc.. and will help with the soil microbes. I don't like not knowing what exactly is in the media, like when you get soil. Coco is also much easier to flush than soil, although it's hard to burn your shit with organic nutes.

Pure Blend Grow:


Pure Blend Bloom:


They also contain humic acids.

You can run more than 6 plants with a quart of each of the CNS bottles. I'm at more plants than that and I'm only a little more than halfway through the grow bottle, less than half on the bloom and just scratching the ripe bottle right now. It's easily 12 plants you could grow start to finish.

 

[t0rn]

If you want some good flowers, pay attention to the rooting during veg, and especially in coco, roots grow amazing... ridiculously amazing lol b-1 solution works wonders at literally taking over almost the entire pot with roots of all kinds, and HEALTHY roots too

REALLY BEAUTIFUL babies there t0rn!!

Thanks for the props man, I use Superthrive for a hormonal/b1 supplement when I transplant and a bit during early veg and early flowering.

 

[Snow Crash]

I hear good things about the PBP but I don't know if you really need it with CNS 17...

Have you seen Organicare Pure from the organic side of Botanicare? It is made of Fish meal, sulfate of potash, alfalfa meal, composted poultry litter and seaweed with some leonardite humic acid.

At 6-6-5 with 8% calcium it is fairly well suited to coco with a balanced ratio of N and P, lower level of K, and a nice boost of Calcium.

They even have instructions for use with coco. You mix 1/2 to 1 ounce per gallon when transplanting from the starting planter (like a party cup to a 1 gallon planter). Then you use the same hydroponic nutrients, like CNS 17 coco/soil, but they need to be reduced by 25% to 50%. Every 3 weeks or so they suggest mixing 1/2 ounce more Pure into the top inch of the coco.

There's a Bloom formula also. It is a 3-4-2 with 6% calcium. Basically the same stuff minus the Fish meal and Alfalfa.

Personally, I will amend my coco with organics and run a lot less nutrients next time around. After trying to balance 6+ products in one mixture it just becomes such a hassle. The appeal for me I suppose is the ease of managing a less hydroponic and more "soil" grow. Still utilizing coco for the CEC and pH buffer while also taking advantage of a complete organic profile.

I mean, $25 gets the entire CNS line, you could grow 6 plants on that. At like $4 per plant for a complete nutrient profile... Then if you add in 2lbs of Organicare Pure Grow and 2lbs Pure Bloom as amendments for the coco, another $10 to $12, and now all the nutrients last twice as long...

$35 for 12 plants... which is $3 per plant. I mean... WOW! Seeds can cost more than the nutrients, the media, and the planter combined!

If you could grow them outdoors... I bet you could harvest a pound off of each plant in 5 gallon containers. Think about that. 6 clones. 6 Planters. 30 gallons of coco and $35 in nutrients with a little love and sunshine could be pounds of sweet sticky. I think I smell profits.

 

[t0rn]

Check the pictures again, it's not the PBP but the Original Pure Blend, which is organic. You'll find it in the supplements section rather than the fertilizer section. It seems to me like the microbial life that I'm adding would benefit more from a half organic half synthetic base. A silicate and an enzyme product are still on the front lines for me though when it comes to nutes atm.

 

[t0rn]

Ok, just looked through the Organicare line, looks like too many products to me. Gonna look into it further.