13/17 light schedule ... BLUE DREAM

[Lucki Luchiano]

Bricktop sorry if I was ranting a little too much..I think what I wanted to communicate to you, was that yes you do seem very knowledgeable about the subject matter and I'll be the first to admit that I'm a rookie and I look to the veterans(like you) to guide me in the right direction. Sorry I was so harsh about it though(especially the old cracks). Give me some links or url's where I can further educate myself especially if a site like this is not good to start at, and I'm not doubting you on that point me in the right direction I try to learn something new everyday.

 

[g13hydo]

everyone is abunch of haters nowadays. you gotta start somewhere. if he wants to try something new let him try something new why bash him about it? what if he changed the game with his idea? support is the best thing to give someone! let him try what he wants without the trash talking? im gettign tired of this site because thats all it is now is HATERS HATING

 

[r1tony]

i'm lost...

 

[Brick Top]

Bricktop sorry if I was ranting a little too much..I think what I wanted to communicate to you, was that yes you do seem very knowledgeable about the subject matter and I'll be the first to admit that I'm a rookie and I look to the veterans(like you) to guide me in the right direction. Sorry I was so harsh about it though(especially the old cracks). Give me some links or url's where I can further educate myself especially if a site like this is not good to start at, and I'm not doubting you on that point me in the right direction I try to learn something new everyday.

It's cool and the gang. I was basically just saying that the fun in growing should not be playing with how someone grows but instead it the level of their success. After all, isn't that why people grow, to succeed and to have the best herb possible and shouldn't achieving that be everyone's main goal and wouldn't the most fun that could be found in growing be found when you take that first hit of what you grew and get knocked on your ass?



Thanks to a recent major computer failure I lost links to about 15 or 20 online growing books. I have since found this site with a list of growing books that can be downloaded but I did not check to see if they are free or not.

http://forum.grasscity.com/absolute-beginners/576920-ultimate-collection-growing-books.html


I can find a list of a number of partial online books that I posted in another thread. Some are only a chapter and some are several and some overlap and some are most of the book .. but it would be a start and they would be free.

Then try these. Some are only chapters of growing books dealing with specifics and others are large portions of books (various chapters spread out, unfortunately with some gaps, but still very helpful) and one or two might even be entire growing books. They will all come in handy at some point in time. (some may be duplicates since I do get overzealous in my bookmarking, sorry for any possible duplicates)

http://books.google.com/books?id=rnw...0sugar&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=rnw...page&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=fER...page&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=fER...page&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=rnw...0sugar&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=fER...ijuana&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=Lvn...ijuana&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=YbB...lained&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=_aK...page&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=JvI...plants&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=7FJ...plants&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=6gfWEbNju-gC&pg=PA16&lpg=PA16&dq=different+types+of+cannabis+trichomes&source=bl&ots=k1HjOdr7ll&sig=d-_A7zWdFao7KTQHDv2aN8AY5Sk&hl=en&ei=seILTcD4EYGKlweX5cjCCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CD0Q6AEwBTgU#v=onepage&q=different types of cannabis trichomes&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=EgicqjKEowQC&pg=PA53&lpg=PA53&dq=Interrelationships+of+glandular+trichomes+and+cannabinoid+content.+I:+Developing+pistillatebracts+of+Cannabis+sativa+L&source=bl&ots=MwKEfqWVqP&sig=Biy0QGfSAxiIfziJXxM1Ko-_ShU&hl=en&ei=pOQLTd2PDcWblgfn3JGeDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CC8Q6AEwBDgK#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://www.scribd.com/doc/24505260/1/Robert-C-Clarke-and-David-P-Watson

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=1AWGDhIOvk0C&oi=fnd&pg=PA192&dq=low+temperature+effects+marijuana+resin+production&ots=a-Fpf7qRDr&sig=RxPJxf6kTH2Blw3PpnCVWzDZEBI#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=UEaTaDYGl2UC&oi=fnd&pg=PA21&dq=low+temperature+effects+marijuana+resin+production&ots=Svsl31CY6E&sig=8JSRstHf8Fyw22KcvxuyHNdK5WE#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=JvIyVk2IL_sC&pg=PA7&lpg=PA7&dq=when+maximum+terpenoids+are+created+in+cannabis&source=bl&ots=AApKq8zMkM&sig=0AT3AXvsDtZ4JCgkSoZ5tVeJWVU&hl=en&ei=3FwmTcu2HMOBlAewor2UAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=fxoJPVNKYUgC&pg=PA7&lpg=PA7&dq=terpenoids+become+cannabinoids&source=bl&ots=w2TbPN_5WJ&sig=bt2BlDPRUDNVZ-zta8-F-QM5C6g&hl=en&ei=SwEkTdPuKcOC8gaS7LSTCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CFsQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q&f=false



And try this .. some good information can be found there. I would not swear each piece of advice is the very best, but much of it is good and it's a heck of a lot better than having nothing to go by at all.


http://www.mellowgold.com/grow/mjbotany-removed/


For general lighting information that touches on various different forms of lighting and what they will give you, go here.

http://forum.grasscity.com/absolute-...ing-guide.html


For more information go here, pick a topic and click on the link. Again I will not swear that every single bit of information is 100% the very best, but again, it is a heck of a lot better to have to go by than what you now have and how you are trying to find information.


http://www.420magazine.com/forums/fr...need-know.html


For researching strains you can go here. It does not have every strain that exists or every one that has ever existed but there are about 2,600 strains listed now. When I first found the site it had about 1,400 strains so new ones are added fairly often.

http://en.seedfinder.eu/

Some of the above are likely duplicates and not everything it a total gem ... but it will give you a good starting point.

 

[lisa L]

So, I'm a newb to growing herb, but have grown a bucket-load of other plants and happen to have a bit of a background in the sciences (which by no means makes me an expert, just a really good listener/observer) so I'd like to list a few things and see how y'all weigh in:

1. 12 hours darkness (give or take a bit, but approximately a minimum) required to maintain full flowering and not revert to veg.--Obviously this depends on strain.
2. Longer photoperiods "on" = more bud. (Plants need light to grow, light for bud, light for weight.--The more light you trim off in any given period of time, 36/24/18/12 hour circadian period, the more you probably will hurt yield.)
3. Plants store up sugar/energy during light periods and "burn" stored energy in dark periods. (Eventually a plant left in the dark will burn through it's reserves and die.) So, lengthening dark periods up to some extent will clearly STRESS plants. (Don't know exactly at which point that occurs, but here you'd have to assume the whole 1000s of years of evolution thing, maybe?)
4. Shortening circadian periods (20/18 total) speeds up harvests but can kill yield. (More photoperiods/"light" days passed, but less overall light per "day")--I think most in the know agree that most/if not all plants have a sense of "age". (Whether or not fighting evolution stresses a plant is up for grabs, although light stress does cause hermies, most agree well enough on that but that usually gets cited as light leaks during dark period)

Depending on if you want a fast finish or the most yield, I'd imagine if you grew with these four things in mind, you will probably get the most or quickest yield, depending on whatever you want.

I don't in anyway think anyone way is right, but I can guarantee you there are methods that will yield more than others. (Nor do I care how anyone else grows, I'm just interested in learning as much as possible from everyone else's wisdom, be it anecdotal or not. (sorry for the thread-jack.)

 

[TokeSmoker420]

so if plants have an internal clock, and know the day is 24hours wouldnt it read your light schedule as 13on/11off then 6off/13on/5off then 12off/12on so on and so on. because wouldnt the plant read light schedules in a 24hour fashion if it has an internal clock. so it wouldnt be processing a 30hour light cycle, rather it would be breaking it down in 24hour light cycles??

(this is a question by the way)

 

[lisa L]

I don't believe plants are as hard-wired into their circadian rythums like we are.--Having said that, who is anyone to say that this strain or that strain doesn't prefer one way or another. Really, you'd need to dig out the papers that people have published on things like mustard plants, etc showing what the triggers are that reset or regulate the circadian rythum. I can guarantee you that there probably a bulit-in mechanism for adapting to non-canonical photocycles otherwise at least a few people's crops on here would have died long before harvest, including my first/recent crop where I shortened photoperiods to "speed" through stretch then lengthened photocycles at mid-flowering. (Obviously I didn't do a side-by-side) but with (2) 400w and I got about 0.75g/watt of potent-cured goodness, I obviously didn't mess things up too terribly.

I think there's a ton of wisdom, from Bricktop (and others) that you should never push your light patterns too far from nature. Unless you are testing it at the molecular level, stress could be sex-changing your plants right under your nose.

 

[Lucki Luchiano]

It's cool and the gang. I was basically just saying that the fun in growing should not be playing with how someone grows but instead it the level of their success. After all, isn't that why people grow, to succeed and to have the best herb possible and shouldn't achieving that be everyone's main goal and wouldn't the most fun that could be found in growing be found when you take that first hit of what you grew and get knocked on your ass?



Thanks to a recent major computer failure I lost links to about 15 or 20 online growing books. I have since found this site with a list of growing books that can be downloaded but I did not check to see if they are free or not.

http://forum.grasscity.com/absolute-beginners/576920-ultimate-collection-growing-books.html


I can find a list of a number of partial online books that I posted in another thread. Some are only a chapter and some are several and some overlap and some are most of the book .. but it would be a start and they would be free.

Then try these. Some are only chapters of growing books dealing with specifics and others are large portions of books (various chapters spread out, unfortunately with some gaps, but still very helpful) and one or two might even be entire growing books. They will all come in handy at some point in time. (some may be duplicates since I do get overzealous in my bookmarking, sorry for any possible duplicates)

http://books.google.com/books?id=rnw...0sugar&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=rnw...page&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=fER...page&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=fER...page&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=rnw...0sugar&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=fER...ijuana&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=Lvn...ijuana&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=YbB...lained&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=_aK...page&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=JvI...plants&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=7FJ...plants&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=6gfWEbNju-gC&pg=PA16&lpg=PA16&dq=different+types+of+cannabis+trichomes&source=bl&ots=k1HjOdr7ll&sig=d-_A7zWdFao7KTQHDv2aN8AY5Sk&hl=en&ei=seILTcD4EYGKlweX5cjCCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CD0Q6AEwBTgU#v=onepage&q=different types of cannabis trichomes&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=EgicqjKEowQC&pg=PA53&lpg=PA53&dq=Interrelationships+of+glandular+trichomes+and+cannabinoid+content.+I:+Developing+pistillatebracts+of+Cannabis+sativa+L&source=bl&ots=MwKEfqWVqP&sig=Biy0QGfSAxiIfziJXxM1Ko-_ShU&hl=en&ei=pOQLTd2PDcWblgfn3JGeDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CC8Q6AEwBDgK#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://www.scribd.com/doc/24505260/1/Robert-C-Clarke-and-David-P-Watson

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=1AWGDhIOvk0C&oi=fnd&pg=PA192&dq=low+temperature+effects+marijuana+resin+production&ots=a-Fpf7qRDr&sig=RxPJxf6kTH2Blw3PpnCVWzDZEBI#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=UEaTaDYGl2UC&oi=fnd&pg=PA21&dq=low+temperature+effects+marijuana+resin+production&ots=Svsl31CY6E&sig=8JSRstHf8Fyw22KcvxuyHNdK5WE#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=JvIyVk2IL_sC&pg=PA7&lpg=PA7&dq=when+maximum+terpenoids+are+created+in+cannabis&source=bl&ots=AApKq8zMkM&sig=0AT3AXvsDtZ4JCgkSoZ5tVeJWVU&hl=en&ei=3FwmTcu2HMOBlAewor2UAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=fxoJPVNKYUgC&pg=PA7&lpg=PA7&dq=terpenoids+become+cannabinoids&source=bl&ots=w2TbPN_5WJ&sig=bt2BlDPRUDNVZ-zta8-F-QM5C6g&hl=en&ei=SwEkTdPuKcOC8gaS7LSTCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CFsQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q&f=false



And try this .. some good information can be found there. I would not swear each piece of advice is the very best, but much of it is good and it's a heck of a lot better than having nothing to go by at all.


http://www.mellowgold.com/grow/mjbotany-removed/


For general lighting information that touches on various different forms of lighting and what they will give you, go here.

http://forum.grasscity.com/absolute-...ing-guide.html


For more information go here, pick a topic and click on the link. Again I will not swear that every single bit of information is 100% the very best, but again, it is a heck of a lot better to have to go by than what you now have and how you are trying to find information.


http://www.420magazine.com/forums/fr...need-know.html


For researching strains you can go here. It does not have every strain that exists or every one that has ever existed but there are about 2,600 strains listed now. When I first found the site it had about 1,400 strains so new ones are added fairly often.

http://en.seedfinder.eu/

Some of the above are likely duplicates and not everything it a total gem ... but it will give you a good starting point.

Yes I totally agree which is why I ask so many questions. I'm trying to get the most bang for my buck, especially on my first grow. And I'm going into my 3rd week with everything looking good so far. Thanks for the links I just copied and pasted them so I can read them over since it's saturday and I'm just sitting around smoking bowls and watching movies. +REP for the assistance.

 

[newworldicon]

Do you believe that because your plant had the misfortune of ending up in your little indoor Gilligan's Island where you; "play god" that your playing will be able to alter thousands and thousands of years of evolution or what a REAL God might have created?

Show me a REAL god, I'd much rather see that than a 30 hour day LOL.

 

[newworldicon]

everyone is abunch of haters nowadays. you gotta start somewhere. if he wants to try something new let him try something new why bash him about it? what if he changed the game with his idea? support is the best thing to give someone! let him try what he wants without the trash talking? im gettign tired of this site because thats all it is now is HATERS HATING

A lot of truth in this statement. +rep.

 

[Brick Top]

Originally Posted by g13hydo everyone is abunch of haters nowadays. you gotta start somewhere. if he wants to try something new let him try something new why bash him about it? what if he changed the game with his idea? support is the best thing to give someone! let him try what he wants without the trash talking? im gettign tired of this site because thats all it is now is HATERS HATING

A lot of truth in this statement. +rep.

"New?" Do you realize how many decades and decades people have been growing and all the different things that have been tried over and over again in that amount of time? What most people call "new" is only repeating something different and out of the norm that has been tried many times before and always failed in relation to what has been proven to work.

The problem or danger of someone playing around and calling it "new" and talking it up is it can cause someone who does not know any better to emulate what they see/read and then the suffer.

What is needed is a separate forum for 'play growing' where results do not matter and only the game of seeing if the person can keep plants alive and get them to flower and to produce at all .... and threads like this could be put there and not be confused with being a serious growing attempt. Things like this, shot-glass growing, party cup growing etc. could all be in such a forum.

 

[Burger Boss]

"New?" Do you realize how many decades and decades people have been growing and all the different things that have been tried over and over again in that amount of time? What most people call "new" is only repeating something different and out of the norm that has been tried many times before and always failed in relation to what has been proven to work.

The problem or danger of someone playing around and calling it "new" and talking it up is it can cause someone who does not know any better to emulate what they see/read and then the suffer.

What is needed is a separate forum for 'play growing' where results do not matter and only the game of seeing if the person can keep plants alive and get them to flower and to produce at all .... and threads like this could be put there and not be confused with being a serious growing attempt. Things like this, shot-glass growing, party cup growing etc. could all be in such a forum.

Thanks Brick, once again the voice of reason and common sense. I think that would be an excellent idea to have a "Special" forum so the kids can go play at growing smoke. I'll even volunteer to drive the "the little yellow bus. It would be full of picnic baskets, bars of soap, and lots of "sexy" things. Upon entering said forum, one would be warned that it is "All just for giggles" and NOT to be taken seriously. Check all science and logic at the door and have fun!
Yes, that would work quite well....NO arguments.....how the hell can you argue over fantasy?
Good luck & good grow to ALL.........BB

 

[lisa L]

Wow, because the last two comments weren't even slightly "smug".

-Since when did "newbie central" become this is the right way and the only way central? I understand you're terrified of a newbie taking something here as fact that might cripple their production, blah blah blah. And obviously, you're right when you say all of this has been probably tried before in one variant or another, but with a lack of coherent and easy-to-locate resources sometimes it's interesting to hash through these kinds of attempts and learn from them/through them on your own.--I for one cherry pick the specific advise I take unless I'm shown empirical data to the contrary. As with EVERYTHING on here, it's only anecdotal unless you show me the money.

Say your piece/peace and politely move on. Your post count or reputation will speak for itself, after that point. Especially when the OP wasn't begging for help, seemed pretty upbeat, and doesn't have dead plants.

 

[Burger Boss]

Wow, because the last two comments weren't even slightly "smug".

-Since when did "newbie central" become this is the right way and the only way central? I understand you're terrified of a newbie taking something here as fact that might cripple their production, blah blah blah. And obviously, you're right when you say all of this has been probably tried before in one variant or another, but with a lack of coherent and easy-to-locate resources sometimes it's interesting to hash through these kinds of attempts and learn from them/through them on your own.--I for one cherry pick the specific advise I take unless I'm shown empirical data to the contrary. As with EVERYTHING on here, it's only anecdotal unless you show me the money.

Say your piece/peace and politely move on. Your post count or reputation will speak for itself, after that point. Especially when the OP wasn't begging for help, seemed pretty upbeat, and doesn't have dead plants.

Lisa, with NO "smugness", and just an observation, you seem to favor the "first hand" experience, rather than rely on "anecdotal" here-say.
So, "they" say......"if you put your tongue on a frozen faucet, it will freeze to the metal".
My question is, do you accept that or will you come off sounding like Truman Capote?
"they" say......"Man cannot fly, unaided". Do you accept that, or will you be that pile of hamburger at the foot of a 12 story building?
My point is, some things in this life are pretty much a given, and accepted by reasonable people as fact and need not be repeated.
This all seems to be a "mis-meeting" of minds between commited cannabis growers and uneducated free-spirits.
I was actually serious about the "Giggle-Grow Group", sans the "little yellow bus", "picnic baskets" and such.
It would be a great thread to let off steam, get silly, and just have some fun!
But, until then, Good luck & good grow.......BB

 

[Bake&Sleep]

Well i want to see more pictures,, ive been following but not posting,
My 2 cents: I have often thought about this theory but have not tried it,.. A few things to consider....
I do not believe the plants are hardwired to believe there is 24 hours in a day, because you can veg them 24/7 as long as you want!
I personally use the Scrog method and i cant imagine getting any more bud out of my space.. possibly a bit more potent,
But
Your power bill will almost be doubled, and it will take longer for your plants to harvest... Also your running the risk of hermy's or getting seeds in your bud which will drop the value... My shit turns out great on a 12/12 schedule. In Oaksterdam "weed college" they didnt mention this theory but educated everyone on the facts behind the plants growth,,, The biggest secret is what you put into your plants (Nutrients). Oaksterdam did mention that more darkness is always better than more light, because too much light willl revert the plant to go back to Veg mode. But im interested, I hope to get more pictures,,,,
Im not hating at all but I have grown blue dream (it is one of the biggest yielding plants i have come across) and your pics that you posted so far definately dont make any experinced grower shat themselves. lol it looks good but not amazing or even standoutish,,, but enjoy the smoke, and its all these little experiments and threads that talk about them that help us all Grow as Growers.
Dont hate the man, he's just like everyone else, a creative thinker too.

 

[Bake&Sleep]

I agree with Brick top, There should be another forum for "play growing/experimenting"

 

[Brick Top]

-Since when did "newbie central" become this is the right way and the only way central?

Right under the forum title "Newbie Central" it says; "The best place to learn how to grow marijuana."

It does not say the place to post your mad Dr. Ganjastein experiments.

Learning is; the cognitive process of acquiring skill or knowledge; eruditeness: profound scholarly knowledge.

Learning is not attempting to reinvent the wheel and make it square or triangular and believe it will be just as good or better than the original just because someone wants to believe they are a creative thinker.

There is a solid base of proven knowledge to rely on for growing. To ignore it is foolhardy and ignorant, not inventive, not experimental and most certainly not a case of creative thinking.

It is an example of a lack of thinking. It is a refusal to accept that proven facts exist and someone setting off on their own to intentionally learn through trial and error followed by failure when that can very easily be avoided and instead success can be achieved right from the start is inane.

How many things in life are best attempted before at least some amount of education in them is received? And without first being educated at least to a certain point or degree what percentage of chance of true success can one honestly expect?

 

[defcomexperiment]

Right under the forum title "Newbie Central" it says; "The best place to learn how to grow marijuana."

It does not say the place to post your mad Dr. Ganjastein experiments.

Learning is; the cognitive process of acquiring skill or knowledge; eruditeness: profound scholarly knowledge.

Learning is not attempting to reinvent the wheel and make it square or triangular and believe it will be just as good or better than the original just because someone wants to believe they are a creative thinker.

There is a solid base of proven knowledge to rely on for growing. To ignore it is foolhardy and ignorant, not inventive, not experimental and most certainly not a case of creative thinking.

It is an example of a lack of thinking. It is a refusal to accept that proven facts exist and someone setting off on their own to intentionally learn through trial and error followed by failure when that can very easily be avoided and instead success can be achieved right from the start is inane.

How many things in life are best attempted before at least some amount of education in them is received? And without first being educated at least to a certain point or degree what percentage of chance of true success can one honestly expect?

what he said, someone could end up using some light cycle that actually harms yield for a few cycles because of this.

 

[canibud]

Why would anyone alter what has been proven to work for decades.....sounds like a bunch of shit just to stir controversy....or are you gonna attempt to change mother nature next?

just because it has been done for decades doesnt automatically mean it is best.
I dont know if it is better or not, but the pics look great.
I am an old timer as well but always looking for new and improved.
and yes I try to change mother nature in my room, I control the wind, rain, sun...

 

[Brick Top]

just because it has been done for decades doesnt automatically mean it is best.

Anyone who denies that scientifically proven facts are not superior to and infinitely more apt to bring about the most positive results possible than what someone might think up on their own and attempt in their basement or closet or store room or spare room or attic or garage or shed or greenhouse or backyard is irrational.

I am an old timer as well but always looking for new and improved. and yes I try to change mother nature in my room, I control the wind, rain, sun...

New only means new to the person who is attempting something and not totally new. Of all the alleged; "new" growing techniques I have seen on this site the only one that I cannot remember ever having known to have been attempted in the past was growing a plant upside down.

As for; "improved," if you want improved results take some horticulture classes, wear out a library card and your eyes checking out and reading books on plants, books containing scientifically proven facts about plants and what their various needs and functions and processes are and then apply that to your growing of cannabis. You will achieve improvement far beyond anything that will be achieved by guessing and trial and error and doing things that have been for not only many years but in some cases far more than just many decades known to be counterproductive to the growth of plants of all types, cannabis plants included.

It is clear that this site is a lost cause, a site filled with educational-phobic people who are horrified of facts and who want and need to believe they are capable of discovering things that have been missed over the many, many years of plant research performed by highly educated people whose life work it had been to scientifically research plants of all types, including cannabis plants, under highly controlled conditions.

Good luck to you all ... because you will need massive amounts of it.