Led Users Unite!

[Griffta]

I emailed the guy in regard to this and thought i would post his response for info purposes, i havent got the knowledge on LED's like some of you guys have so here is what he said,



UV is generally included for several reasons. On the practical side they are included for the reason that the 2 blue absorbtion peaks where photosynthesis is most efficient occur at 453nm and 430nm, and normal blue and royal blue leds put out 465-485nm and 450-465nm. This means that although its possible to hit the hit the first peak (just), you cant hit the second peak with (most) royal blues. Because of this alot of lights use UV. UV lights are actually a bit short wave (390nm) to hit the second peak, but the peak does extend back down below 400nm, althought at a reduced efficiancy.
Another reason given for UV is it repels/kills insects and kills mould/fungus. UV actually atracts bugs as they see by it! Its like a big 'come here' sign which is why bug zappers use it to attract bugs! Not something you want on your plants! Anything strong enough in UV to kill fungus/insects would kill the plant - and you!

Instead of UV, I use very short wave blue leds, and I am now using 2 different wavelength bins of Royal Blue, instead of blue and royal blue.
Far red 740nm is claimed to encourage flowering. My lights do have a small
amount of this from the warm white leds, but they also have alot off
660nm far red. 660nm changes a specific chemical which is associated
with flowering and absorbs at 660nm to a different form which absorbs
720nm light. This form then either decomposes back to the 660nm form
naturally when the plant is in darkness, or when it is hit by 720nm
light. There is no diffinative study which shows 720nm light has any
reall effect on flowering, but lots that show 660nm does.

Possibly the best thing I can do is post some output and wavelength specs for my leds. These show I aint joking when I say my lights are the best. Basically all marketing and product placement is niches. I make the best lights, and use the best leds available because that is my niche. If I could make a better light possibly using better/more expensive leds I would do do, and would simply charge a bit more. These are the sort of lights you would have if your best mate or brother was a very good engineer and superb craftsman with lots of money and decided to make them for you as a birthday present!

Here is some info on the led's used in my main 280 watt light

Actual best
absorbtion
wavelength / My Leds / Lumens or Rradiometric Power
439 nm / 430 - 440nm / 870 - 1030mw
453 nm / 445 - 450 / 870 - 1030mw
642nm / 620 - 630 (standard red - very efficient) / 107 - 113.65 lm
662nm / 650 - 670nm / 550 - 710mw
Warm White Cree XP-R / not applicable / 160 lm

wow cheers for the info & input guys

 

[Kaptain Kron]

well been gone for a few days came home found my kessil sittin on my doorstep, im surprised one of you guys didnt show up and swoop my package all sick lol i kid i kid, but seriously this little thing packs a punch make no joke about it. This little thing hurts my eyes more than my blackstar does i dont even have to look directly at this fucker for me to feel it burning my cornea's... The best part though, it runs absolutely cold. So little heat that it is IMPOSSIBLE for this thing to raise temps in my booth at all. Temps have gone completely ambient depending on how warm it is in the house its fuckin ridiculous. Lovin this little kessil so far. Just threw four black jacks into flower a few days ago. Still waiting on my mystery plant from nirvana to show some nuts or hairs... fuckin sativa's its already in 3.5 weeks and still no sign lol

 

[dunit]

I emailed the guy in regard to this and thought i would post his response for info purposes, i havent got the knowledge on LED's like some of you guys have so here is what he said,



UV is generally included for several reasons. On the practical side they are included for the reason that the 2 blue absorbtion peaks where photosynthesis is most efficient occur at 453nm and 430nm, and normal blue and royal blue leds put out 465-485nm and 450-465nm. This means that although its possible to hit the hit the first peak (just), you cant hit the second peak with (most) royal blues. Because of this alot of lights use UV. UV lights are actually a bit short wave (390nm) to hit the second peak, but the peak does extend back down below 400nm, althought at a reduced efficiancy.
Another reason given for UV is it repels/kills insects and kills mould/fungus. UV actually atracts bugs as they see by it! Its like a big 'come here' sign which is why bug zappers use it to attract bugs! Not something you want on your plants! Anything strong enough in UV to kill fungus/insects would kill the plant - and you!

Instead of UV, I use very short wave blue leds, and I am now using 2 different wavelength bins of Royal Blue, instead of blue and royal blue.
Far red 740nm is claimed to encourage flowering. My lights do have a small
amount of this from the warm white leds, but they also have alot off
660nm far red. 660nm changes a specific chemical which is associated
with flowering and absorbs at 660nm to a different form which absorbs
720nm light. This form then either decomposes back to the 660nm form
naturally when the plant is in darkness, or when it is hit by 720nm
light. There is no diffinative study which shows 720nm light has any
reall effect on flowering, but lots that show 660nm does.

Possibly the best thing I can do is post some output and wavelength specs for my leds. These show I aint joking when I say my lights are the best. Basically all marketing and product placement is niches. I make the best lights, and use the best leds available because that is my niche. If I could make a better light possibly using better/more expensive leds I would do do, and would simply charge a bit more. These are the sort of lights you would have if your best mate or brother was a very good engineer and superb craftsman with lots of money and decided to make them for you as a birthday present!

Here is some info on the led's used in my main 280 watt light

Actual best
absorbtion
wavelength / My Leds / Lumens or Rradiometric Power
439 nm / 430 - 440nm / 870 - 1030mw
453 nm / 445 - 450 / 870 - 1030mw
642nm / 620 - 630 (standard red - very efficient) / 107 - 113.65 lm
662nm / 650 - 670nm / 550 - 710mw
Warm White Cree XP-R / not applicable / 160 lm

Well I will certainly say that who ever is answering their emails knows their stuff. The 660 and 720nm Phytochrome PF and PFR relationship is certainly one of the more advanced concepts of horticulture and I think most manufacturers just aim for the four peaks of Cholorophyl and don't worry about many of the other processes going on. You don't need a lot of IR which is why most of the proven panels only have a few IR diodes but warm white LED's really don't produce much and there are very few of them so its just my opinion that more IR would be preferable. In the end, LED growers don't generally run huge plants and the bigger the plant the more important the IR as that's what triggers the branches in the shade to keep stretching to get into better light.

As for the UV, also correct. Enough to kill fungus/mold is enough to hurt the plant but it doesn't take much to stop reproduction and thats where UV is generally used in horticulture. A bit of mould, fungus, mildew really isn't that harmful but if unchecked can run rampant. You only need enough UV to stop it from breeding and that occurs at much lower levels.

Either way the guy knows his stuff and is obvioulsy considering these things so on that alone that makes the product better than many out there. The email you posted actually reminds me of one I got from GrowPerfect (the ISIS guys) when I was first looking at lights and that's what made me go with their company.

In the end it still comes down to cost. $320 for 108W (max rating) panel. $399 for 170W (mx rating) ISIS. ISIS is better bang for the buck and we know it works because a whole bunch of us just watched a guy, LedBudGuy, pull down about 5.5 ozs per panel (he had a 5 panel grow).

That is just my opinion and I should point out I picked a panel no one had tried before either so I wouldn't fault you for buying the new one.

 

[Kaptain Kron]

uv also helps with trichome production as well.

 

[BudBaby]

Well I will certainly say that who ever is answering their emails knows their stuff. The 660 and 720nm Phytochrome PF and PFR relationship is certainly one of the more advanced concepts of horticulture and I think most manufacturers just aim for the four peaks of Cholorophyl and don't worry about many of the other processes going on. You don't need a lot of IR which is why most of the proven panels only have a few IR diodes but warm white LED's really don't produce much and there are very few of them so its just my opinion that more IR would be preferable. In the end, LED growers don't generally run huge plants and the bigger the plant the more important the IR as that's what triggers the branches in the shade to keep stretching to get into better light.

As for the UV, also correct. Enough to kill fungus/mold is enough to hurt the plant but it doesn't take much to stop reproduction and thats where UV is generally used in horticulture. A bit of mould, fungus, mildew really isn't that harmful but if unchecked can run rampant. You only need enough UV to stop it from breeding and that occurs at much lower levels.

Either way the guy knows his stuff and is obvioulsy considering these things so on that alone that makes the product better than many out there. The email you posted actually reminds me of one I got from GrowPerfect (the ISIS guys) when I was first looking at lights and that's what made me go with their company.

In the end it still comes down to cost. $320 for 108W (max rating) panel. $399 for 170W (mx rating) ISIS. ISIS is better bang for the buck and we know it works because a whole bunch of us just watched a guy, LedBudGuy, pull down about 5.5 ozs per panel (he had a 5 panel grow).

That is just my opinion and I should point out I picked a panel no one had tried before either so I wouldn't fault you for buying the new one.

Thanks for the input, I like this guy also because he seems very honest and very confident in his product. I'm hoping that the best quality led bulbs it will be worth the money. He is adamant I will at least match a 1000 watt bps with his 280 watt light.

Me myself would be happy at matching a 600 watt, its all very exciting anyway, ill be keeping a journal so only time will tell. I will say though that he has been totally honest with me so far about everything so I'm optimistic but don't want to count my chickens yet.

 

[dunit]

Thanks for the input, I like this guy also because he seems very honest and very confident in his product. I'm hoping that the best quality led bulbs it will be worth the money. He is adamant I will at least match a 1000 watt bps with his 280 watt light.

Me myself would be happy at matching a 600 watt, its all very exciting anyway, ill be keeping a journal so only time will tell. I will say though that he has been totally honest with me so far about everything so I'm optimistic but don't want to count my chickens yet.

How much is his 280? I'm guessing that probably the max rating so it will probably draw somewhere around the 150 watt mark but maybe ask him so you can compare.

 

[jdizzle22]

Thanks for the input, I like this guy also because he seems very honest and very confident in his product. I'm hoping that the best quality led bulbs it will be worth the money. He is adamant I will at least match a 1000 watt bps with his 280 watt light.

Me myself would be happy at matching a 600 watt, its all very exciting anyway, ill be keeping a journal so only time will tell. I will say though that he has been totally honest with me so far about everything so I'm optimistic but don't want to count my chickens yet.

He is really claiming to be selling people 280W LED lights that will grow as well as a 1000w HPS? Are there any grow journals that even come close to supporting that at all? The best LED grows I've seen perform slightly better watt for watt than an HPS, if someone is claiming their LED lights performs 3-4x better watt for watt than an HPS that seems incredibly suspect. His lights grow what 3-4 grams per watt with an LED when most people hope they get 1 gram per watt with HPS?

 

[jdizzle22]

How much is his 280? I'm guessing that probably the max rating so it will probably draw somewhere around the 150 watt mark but maybe ask him so you can compare.

WHAT?!?!?! This = to a 1000w HPS LED light doesn't even draw 280w it might only draw 150!?!?!?

Plenty of LED companies with fancy websites have been telling people for years "Oh our <200w Panels will grow as well as a 600w HPS!" And then people buy them and do grows and are lucky if they do as well as an HPS watt for watt'

I imagine his lights perform as well as HPS watt for watt, but I'd say there is a 99.99% chance you will never be able to do as well with 1 of those lights as with a 1000w HPS

 

[BudBaby]

The actual draw is 280 watts, with shipping and insurance it cost me £800 GBP.

I know all the hype surrounding LED's but i spoke to this guy in some depth and he says his LED's are the best money can buy. Obvioulsy he is a business man but he seems really into the science so to speak of LED's and wants to make the very highest quality products. Thats how he comes across anyway.

Like i say i would be happy with results equal to a 600 watt anything else would be a bonus. Only time will tell how good these lights are and whether they are worth the extra money. Im hoping they are and with the money i have spent i would want to achieve at least 1.5g per watt for me to be happy with my outlay.

 

[jdizzle22]

The actual draw is 280 watts, with shipping and insurance it cost me £800 GBP.

I know all the hype surrounding LED's but i spoke to this guy in some depth and he says his LED's are the best money can buy. Obvioulsy he is a business man but he seems really into the science so to speak of LED's and wants to make the very highest quality products. Thats how he comes across anyway.

Like i say i would be happy with results equal to a 600 watt anything else would be a bonus. Only time will tell how good these lights are and whether they are worth the extra money. Im hoping they are and with the money i have spent i would want to achieve at least 1.5g per watt for me to be happy with my outlay.

well unless he is somehow using revolutionary LED lights that no other LED company is really using yet there is simply no way in hell his 280w lights will grow as well as a 600 or 1000 HPS. If you're lucky or its at least as good as most of the goods ones it MAY (although I feel its unlikely) grow as well as a 400w HPS. The only way I can imagine someone growing as well as a 600-1000w HPS with as little as 280w of LED is if its a bunch of Kessils, because those are the only grow lights that are really unique from most LED lights and seem to get way more bang per watt.

I'm not knocking on the quality of his lights, they could very well be great for the money. I'm just saying there is no way in hell a 'conventional' (unconvential being a Kessil) LED grow light could beat HID lights with half as many watts. I've seen plenty of companies that would boast about their LED lights and be very convincing with lots of info about how LED tech works, and they never made claims even that extraordinary. They would say things like our 180w LED = a 400 or 600w HID. Then people would buy these lights and find out they were only as good or worse as HID watt for watt. I'll bet you could grow with that light as well as 300-400w HID but no way 600w or higher. Does he have any evidence to back up such a claim? Does he grow himself or have any grow journals from people getting those kind of yields with his lights?

I mean if he is telling the truth... Then everyone needs to buy his lights even the people that use HID wouldn't have any excuse not to.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"
Carl Sagan

 

[Kaptain Kron]

you bought from the guy on ebay UK? The guy viagro likes to talk about? If so i would actually lean towards believing that claim as this guy doesnt rate the wattage ratings of the leds as total watts he rates watts used from the socket, like what you would see on your power bill. That being the case thats probably close to a 600w blackstar which i would think would be as good as a 1000 if not very close. My 240w blackstar but it only pulls i think something like 120 its been awhile since i had a killawat around, and its better than a 400w hps.

If its the guy im thinking of dont let these nay sayers get down on you, the guy has some very convincing shit, if you dont think so pm viagro he can link you i can't find the link right now. Read what he says about his lights or contact him direct he's a nice guy apparently and pretty knowledgeable.

The actual draw is 280 watts, with shipping and insurance it cost me £800 GBP.

I know all the hype surrounding LED's but i spoke to this guy in some depth and he says his LED's are the best money can buy. Obvioulsy he is a business man but he seems really into the science so to speak of LED's and wants to make the very highest quality products. Thats how he comes across anyway.

Like i say i would be happy with results equal to a 600 watt anything else would be a bonus. Only time will tell how good these lights are and whether they are worth the extra money. Im hoping they are and with the money i have spent i would want to achieve at least 1.5g per watt for me to be happy with my outlay.

 

[Kaptain Kron]

try to go back in the thread a ways before viagro left and see what he posted about teh guy on ebay uk, its been gone over in this thread and many things quoted everone around at the time seemed to find it satisfyingly convincing

well unless he is somehow using revolutionary LED lights that no other LED company is really using yet there is simply no way in hell his 280w lights will grow as well as a 600 or 1000 HPS. If you're lucky or its at least as good as most of the goods ones it MAY (although I feel its unlikely) grow as well as a 400w HPS. The only way I can imagine someone growing as well as a 600-1000w HPS with as little as 280w of LED is if its a bunch of Kessils, because those are the only grow lights that are really unique from most LED lights and seem to get way more bang per watt.

I'm not knocking on the quality of his lights, they could very well be great for the money. I'm just saying there is no way in hell a 'conventional' (unconvential being a Kessil) LED grow light could beat HID lights with half as many watts. I've seen plenty of companies that would boast about their LED lights and be very convincing with lots of info about how LED tech works, and they never made claims even that extraordinary. They would say things like our 180w LED = a 400 or 600w HID. Then people would buy these lights and find out they were only as good or worse as HID watt for watt. I'll bet you could grow with that light as well as 300-400w HID but no way 600w or higher. Does he have any evidence to back up such a claim? Does he grow himself or have any grow journals from people getting those kind of yields with his lights?

I mean if he is telling the truth... Then everyone needs to buy his lights even the people that use HID wouldn't have any excuse not to.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"
Carl Sagan

 

[SmokeyMcSmokester]

here is a grow that my buddy is doing..the lights are stealth grow LEDs, and the clones are in a 36 site aeroflo. veg time was about 10 days, and they are in the 4th week of flower now.

 

[dunit]

here is a grow that my buddy is doing..the lights are stealth grow LEDs, and the clones are in a 36 site aeroflo. veg time was about 10 days, and they are in the 4th week of flower now.

Holy smoke those are Stealth Grow 602's. 350 watts actual draw each. 700 watts over a 4x4 scrog?

now that's a ton of light. $3200 of LED's rockin that show.....

Does your buddy have a journal going or can you keep us or me updated how he does?

I've got two 357 Magnums over a 4x4 area and I'm only a couple days behind your buddy. Would love to see how I make out compared to the big show

 

[dunit]

The actual draw is 280 watts, with shipping and insurance it cost me £800 GBP.

I know all the hype surrounding LED's but i spoke to this guy in some depth and he says his LED's are the best money can buy. Obvioulsy he is a business man but he seems really into the science so to speak of LED's and wants to make the very highest quality products. Thats how he comes across anyway.

Like i say i would be happy with results equal to a 600 watt anything else would be a bonus. Only time will tell how good these lights are and whether they are worth the extra money. Im hoping they are and with the money i have spent i would want to achieve at least 1.5g per watt for me to be happy with my outlay.

So $1300USD for 280 watts actual draw.

That's a lot of money even if it is a great panel.

Both my lights together were $1400USD and I have 360watts total draw

 

[StoneyC]

LED setup i got rockin.. i know its alotta light right now but im moving them into a 5 gallon DWC setup and adding a few more teens im pickin up from a buddy..
but im keepin a log if anyone is interested in taggin along for the ride

 

[SmokeyMcSmokester]

Holy smoke those are Stealth Grow 602's. 350 watts actual draw each. 700 watts over a 4x4 scrog?

now that's a ton of light. $3200 of LED's rockin that show.....

Does your buddy have a journal going or can you keep us or me updated how he does?

I've got two 357 Magnums over a 4x4 area and I'm only a couple days behind your buddy. Would love to see how I make out compared to the big show

haha..i actually got those LEDs for $1100 a piece..i have 6 total. my buddy doesnt have a light, so i let him use them on his grow..i get an oz a light

he tried using them a few grows ago, and he only had one light above the system..it didnt seem to do the trick..he had some other issues with the grow, and didnt complete the grow..then i was gonna use three panels over a 60site aeroflo, ran into some problems, and had to scratch the grow...this will be the first full ive personally seen with these lights..i have a friend in LA who uses these in conjunction with a 600W HPS, and he gets incredible results...

he doesnt have a journal..i'll update his process in my journal in my sig.

 

[BudBaby]

you bought from the guy on ebay UK? The guy viagro likes to talk about? If so i would actually lean towards believing that claim as this guy doesnt rate the wattage ratings of the leds as total watts he rates watts used from the socket, like what you would see on your power bill. That being the case thats probably close to a 600w blackstar which i would think would be as good as a 1000 if not very close. My 240w blackstar but it only pulls i think something like 120 its been awhile since i had a killawat around, and its better than a 400w hps.

If its the guy im thinking of dont let these nay sayers get down on you, the guy has some very convincing shit, if you dont think so pm viagro he can link you i can't find the link right now. Read what he says about his lights or contact him direct he's a nice guy apparently and pretty knowledgeable.

Yes thats the guy dude, Originally my 280 watt light he said should replace a 800 watt MH or get within 10% of that anyway. His LED suppliers though have launched a new LED which is alot brighter than the orinignal ones so im waiting for these which he now says will equal 1000 watt MH.

When i first ordered he seemed amazed that i would want to go up to 280 watts which seemed strange at first when you have other companys selling 600 watt+ panels. When he expalined how he worked his power out though it made sense.

All i know is that so far everything he has said makes sense and he doesnt seem like a bullshitter to me. If i can get 2g per watt(yes i know thats alot)thats 20 oz or 560g which in my mind would be as good as a 1000 watt. As i say only time will tell but if you can match a 400 watt with 120 watts of actual output i dont see how i cant match a 1000 watt with 280. Especially seeing as how this light is very expensive and only uses the most expensive LED's.

 

[BudBaby]

So $1300USD for 280 watts actual draw.

That's a lot of money even if it is a great panel.

Both my lights together were $1400USD and I have 360watts total draw

It is alot i know mate but im hoping with this increased cost i will get increased results.

 

[dunit]

It is alot i know mate but im hoping with this increased cost i will get increased results.

I hear ya. As long as there's an appropriate increase in yield a more expensive light can pay for itself pretty quick and I'm fine with that. The big issue is outrageous claims with no provability. Have you done some searches to see if anyone else is running this light and how they are making out? Someone always has to take the plunge on a new product, but if someone has already done that it might give you a better idea if you are laying out big bucks for a good reason. If the actual draw is 280W then you have a fighting chance of big yield with decent LED's. Sounds like that's how this seller rates things so you could be on the right track.

Good luck and obvioulsy keep us posted