Led Users Unite!

StoneyC

StoneyC

Active Member
i have a setup running two growpanel pros 300 watt from sunshine systems... im pretty happy with what im gettin outta it for veg.. i ran them for a flower cycle last year and they produced nice fat dense nuggets comparable to what ive gotten under HPS so i would add that up there with another reliable light and company to use .. specs for the light
Power: 300 watts
LEDs: 455-470 nm / 610-660nm / 680nm,740nm (all colors)
Voltage: 100-260v AC (worldwide power supply)
Operating Temperature: -30F~+110F
Weight: 21 lbs.
Dimensions - 19" x 12.25" x 4"
it also uses 100% pure PAR lighting so i would think that it really is comparable to at least a 600 watt ..
LEDs are comin up lol
 
J

jdizzle22

Well-Known Member
BudBaby said:
I have just spoken to the ebay guy who is making my light and he said this regarding a 280 watt led vs 600+ MH, i thought it may be on interest,

A 400 watt MH puts out 140 PAR (photosynthetically active radiation) watts, and a 600 MH puts out 210. Thats how much of the energy consumed by the light gets turned into light the plant can use. This means that if you have a light source WHICH HAS THE SAME EFFICIENCY AS A MH and puts out all its light at wavelengths the plant can use, it will match the MH light even though it is using less power. The extra energy is wated in the form of heat, UV (which is filtered by the glass in the light) heat and IR. It has taken until recently for the efficiency of leds to equal that of a MH light. HID (high intensity discharge) light are actually very efficient compared to other light sources, which is why they are used in things like street lighting.
So it is entirely possible for a 210 watt light to match a 600 watt MH PROVIDED it is as efficient and produces only light which the plant can use. Leds have been improving slowly, with manufacturers typicall upgrading their specs about every 6 months. Untill recently the brightes standard red was the (Philips Lumileds) Luxeon Rebel. Cree didnt make a colored range of leds except in the rather feeble MC-E range. They did produce good blues, but not reds. They produce blues because white leds are actually blue ones with a downshift phosphor to produce white light! This has now changed with the release of the new XP-E range. Suddenly led output has jumped 50% in one go! At this level of efficiency leds are now more efficient than a MH light. This means that a 280 watt light CAN beat a 600 watt MH. This guy here http://www.ledgrow.eu/ recently achieved 1.5 grams per watt using Cree XP-E leds. If he had added 660nm leds he would have got more.
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1.5 is still a far cry from 3 or 4 (if LEDs are so much more efficient then they should easily blow past the whole 1 gram per watt thing). I don't doubt that LEDs are more efficient with power than HID lights, I've heard all over the place that LEDs are 95% efficient compared to HID which is 20% or less. I'm not sure I believe those figures because if it were true then anyone with a decent LED panel should be outgrowing HID no problem. But even the best LED grows I have read did not produce significantly more buds than HID watt for watt. I can believe his 280w LED might grow as much as a 400w HID and even that might be stretching it, but I highly doubt that a 280w LED can beat a 600w HID even if it is a MH.

Although...
Technology is always advancing and sometimes there are radical leaps in short amounts of time, so I don't doubt that LEDs could become twice as good as HID watt for watt. I'm just being skeptical because I haven't seen it done and a lot of LED grow light companies are routinely exaggerating to people about what their products can do. Can anyone link to completed grows of sub 300w LED lights from any company producing as much as 600w HID or much more than the classical 1 gram per watt rule?
 
J

jdizzle22

Well-Known Member
660nm420 said:
I've got a plan on how to make this a reality. It starts with nicely written letters to these companies in their language.
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You may have better luck with the companies that have gotten a lot of bashing for exaggerating their claims or smaller companies looking to get their word out
 
bajafox

bajafox

Well-Known Member
dunit said:
In his latest grow journal Irishboy made the comment to only believe results and that probably sums it up. Manufacturers can claim whatever they want and people in advertising are really good at telling you what you want to hear. Social Media (forums are included in this) are full of clandstine advertisers claiming results but not posting any proof. It's completed journals that should be the proof. I know I've wasted hours and hours following journals that go no where and it's frustrating which is why I ended up buying an untested light after many hours of research. It's going great so far but until I cut down and weigh in....it doesn't mean much.

The only completed journals that I have found, other than very small ones just to grow some hobby smoke, that didn't have problems and were an honest assesment of the lights, were run by Irishboy, Setting Sun and LedBudGuy.

If anyone has a link to a completed grow journal or blog for a run with Hydroponics Hut, Kessil, Blackstar or Stealth Grow please post it. If anyone has a grow going with these lights please start a journal if it is safe to do so, so we can all learn.

Cheers
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Irishboys LED grow seems legit, I am sub'd to his grow journal but he is running 720w in a 4' x 4' are (I believe) which is the same area I'm using. Luckily I have about 2 months to do my research before I finally pull the trigger. I'm highly interested in making the full swap and keeping it that way but after finally dialing in my 600w hps, it'll be tough. My biggest priority right now is reducing the electric bill, if I can do that and have similar results I will be happy.

ledbudguy said:
I am growing in a really confined gable end. The actual grow space is about 15' long x 4' wide x 3.5' high. The first grow I only grew them to 12" and was running 2 gallon pots, this time around I am running 3.5 gallon pots and I am going to grow them to a finished height of 20" - 23". Anything over 1.5 zip per will be awesome. I am shooting for 1.4g per watt which would put me at 51 zips but anything over 40 zips will be impressive.

Oh, I forgot to add that I am into my lights for just over $2k for 6 of them which isnt bad considering what they are producing and saving me in electricity and heat problems.
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That sounds like a very reasonable expectation IMO. I am still working on getting my first plant over 2 ounces but I'm expecting one very soon. I have a Jack Herer, Pineapple Express and Sharksbreath that were vegged for 10 weeks and are flowering in 3 gallon smart pots. I will be very surprised if they each yield less than 2 ounces, if they do then I know I am doing something wrong...

If I lose some yield with LEDs but keep the same density my hps produces I'll be a happy camper. That will be 100 times better than dealing with the heat all summer and probably having to shut down unless I add AC and a good CO2 set up... just seems like switching to LED's is a lot easier
 
J

jdizzle22

Well-Known Member
bajafox said:
If I lose some yield with LEDs but keep the same density my hps produces I'll be a happy camper. That will be 100 times better than dealing with the heat all summer and probably having to shut down unless I add AC and a good CO2 set up... just seems like switching to LED's is a lot easier
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If you read all of Irishboys LED grows and those of the people following his grows (there is a few other people and some of them are big wigs with 420magazine and other websites) you will find that LED grows as well or slightly better (hes finding the quality is slightly better). You can absolutely do as well with LED as HID as long as you keep the plants less than 3-4 feet tall (I feel that 3 ft is the ideal max height). And if you go like him you could grow more bud by having multiple smaller LED panels.

You could probably get away with 2-3 240w panels or maybe even a single 380w. It will depend on the floor space you have. How big is the base of your growing area?
 
Kaptain Kron

Kaptain Kron

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately you can only see about the first week of my journal on the blackstar, the partner got a hair up his ass after that and banned pics from bein taken at the spot and since hes payin the rent thats how it goes. You can choose not to believe in the BS panels if you dont want to no skin off the peoples backs who are using em but take it or leave it i know its just words without pics but i am very impressed with it. HOWEVER i like my kessil better. Wish i had known about them to start with would have waited a bit longer and bought 2 kessils instead of a single blackstar.

Quality of LED buds is ALWAYS better than HID unless you dont know how to grow or got a shit panel. I've never had any LED bud that failed to put the same strain from the same mother to shame under the same conditions. Yeah sure the hps produced a bit more, well a lot if your doin vert grows but with scrog and sog its fairly close to same yeild but the quality is worlds better.

More trichs, denser nug whats not to love.... unless your a cash cropper.
 
surgedup

surgedup

Active Member
Hey kaptain I have a 240w blackstar flower and a 300w chinese panel im thinking of buying a veg 240w blackstar or a purple kessil im growing in a 3x4 area with about 10 plants would you guys suggest either another 240w blackstar flower or veg model or a kessil to finish off my little grow area for maximum yield ....... im thinking the purple h150 kessil I dont know...
Kaptain Kron said:
Unfortunately you can only see about the first week of my journal on the blackstar, the partner got a hair up his ass after that and banned pics from bein taken at the spot and since hes payin the rent thats how it goes. You can choose not to believe in the BS panels if you dont want to no skin off the peoples backs who are using em but take it or leave it i know its just words without pics but i am very impressed with it. HOWEVER i like my kessil better. Wish i had known about them to start with would have waited a bit longer and bought 2 kessils instead of a single blackstar.

Quality of LED buds is ALWAYS better than HID unless you dont know how to grow or got a shit panel. I've never had any LED bud that failed to put the same strain from the same mother to shame under the same conditions. Yeah sure the hps produced a bit more, well a lot if your doin vert grows but with scrog and sog its fairly close to same yeild but the quality is worlds better.

More trichs, denser nug whats not to love.... unless your a cash cropper.
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surgedup

surgedup

Active Member
Would you guys suggest a purple kessil or magenta im trying to have a good veg source since all my panels are mainly flower based but I heard the magenta vegs well also? and a little bit better in flower also...
 
ledbudguy

ledbudguy

New Member
surgedup said:
Would you guys suggest a purple kessil or magenta im trying to have a good veg source since all my panels are mainly flower based but I heard the magenta vegs well also? and a little bit better in flower also...
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For veg I 110% reccommend going with an ISIS-1 and run co2, in over 20 years of growing I have never seen anything like it. Check out my current grow and have a look at the combo in action https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/399795-confined-space-1020w-led-24-a.html
 
B

BudBaby

Active Member
ledbudguy said:
For veg I 110% reccommend going with an ISIS-1 and run co2, in over 20 years of growing I have never seen anything like it. Check out my current grow and have a look at the combo in action https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/399795-confined-space-1020w-led-24-a.html
Click to expand...

Your journal is inspiring me no end, i havent ever grown before but i decided to go LED, i went with the uk guy on ebay and my lights are very expensive so im hoping the extra money will be worth it, i cant wait to get started though and seeing pics of what decent LED's can do gives me great confidence.
 
ledbudguy

ledbudguy

New Member
rolliepollie420 said:
yeah they do they made this big fuss about them, and it turns out hid will ALWAYS be better, it doesnt matter how much energy u save on lighting and cooling. 1000w hps will beat the sun. well not actually but u know what i mean. to hell with the japanese and there led
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I'll go watt for watt against you and your HID anytime pal... by any chance are you still driving an AMC Gremlin?

gremlin-green-1976.jpg
 
dunit

dunit

Active Member
rolliepollie420 said:
yeah they do they made this big fuss about them, and it turns out hid will ALWAYS be better, it doesnt matter how much energy u save on lighting and cooling. 1000w hps will beat the sun. well not actually but u know what i mean. to hell with the japanese and there led
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LedBudGuy last pulled 27oz 6g on 600 watts of actual draw. 1.27 grams per watt. 1000W HPS draws 1108 watts so you need to go pull 1407 grams.

THATS 3 POUNDS 1 OUNCE 17 GRAMS OFF ONE 1000W HPS

Good luck!
 
surgedup

surgedup

Active Member
LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL I hate dudes that just talk about there HPS setup like its the best thing since slice bread. I guess its just really hard for those guys that have been growing since the 60's to realize there methods of growing are not the best anymore.
dunit said:
LedBudGuy last pulled 27oz 6g on 600 watts of actual draw. 1.27 grams per watt. 1000W HPS draws 1108 watts so you need to go pull 1407 grams.

THATS 3 POUNDS 1 OUNCE 17 GRAMS OFF ONE 1000W HPS

Good luck!
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bajafox

bajafox

Well-Known Member
jdizzle22 said:
If you read all of Irishboys LED grows and those of the people following his grows (there is a few other people and some of them are big wigs with 420magazine and other websites) you will find that LED grows as well or slightly better (hes finding the quality is slightly better). You can absolutely do as well with LED as HID as long as you keep the plants less than 3-4 feet tall (I feel that 3 ft is the ideal max height). And if you go like him you could grow more bud by having multiple smaller LED panels.

You could probably get away with 2-3 240w panels or maybe even a single 380w. It will depend on the floor space you have. How big is the base of your growing area?
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I just now checked out ledbudguy's thread and decided to check out the ISIS models. Last night I emailed Gotham about Blackstar 600w to see if they thought it would be a good replacement in my DR120 (4' x 4' x 6') http://www.gothamhydroponics.com/grow-lights/gotham-hydro-led-grow-lights/lighthouse-blackstar-600w-led-grow-light-2w-cree.html

After checking out ledbudguys thread I saw the ISIS-2 400w panel and seemed more than intriguing as well. I think I'm going to decide between those 2, I'm sure the panels irishboy uses are better than those but they are also way outside the price range I'm thinking.
 
J

jdizzle22

Well-Known Member
bajafox said:
I just now checked out ledbudguy's thread and decided to check out the ISIS models. Last night I emailed Gotham about Blackstar 600w to see if they thought it would be a good replacement in my DR120 (4' x 4' x 6') http://www.gothamhydroponics.com/grow-lights/gotham-hydro-led-grow-lights/lighthouse-blackstar-600w-led-grow-light-2w-cree.html

After checking out ledbudguys thread I saw the ISIS-2 400w panel and seemed more than intriguing as well. I think I'm going to decide between those 2, I'm sure the panels irishboy uses are better than those but they are also way outside the price range I'm thinking.
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Well if you tell them you are going to buy one of his panels because of Irishboy you can get a discount I believe (not sure if he is still doing that). You could get two 240w units for about $1100 and that should serve a 4x4 space pretty well. How much are either of the 2 going to cost you?
 
J

jdizzle22

Well-Known Member
bajafox said:
The Blackstar 600w is on special right now for $599.99 (normally $924 according to the website)

The ISIS-2 400w is $749 (http://ledgrowlightsdirect.com/isis-2/)

A Spectra LED 300 (360w actual) runs for $1099 (http://ledgrowlightsdirect.com/isis-2/) and irisboy uses 2 in a 4' x 4' area I believe. That's just over $2 grand to run a similar set up to his
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No Irishboy is going for multiple 180/(2011 240w) units he doesn't use the 300s anymore (and the new 2011 300 model is actually 395w I believe) here look at this link for the new 2011 models, Mike talks about the new models a bit too
Dang 420magazine is loading sooo slow this morning :(
http://www.420magazine.com/forums/journals-progress/132192-irish-boys-480w-720w-grow-led-hydro-land-clovers-49.html
www.growledhydro.com is a bit out of date except for the new pricing (more expensive because of the better hardware and failsafe tech), if you want the correct model specs you gotta check that link right above me (he said the site will be updated soon)
A similar set up to his would cost you $1100 or less depending on if you get a discount or not (you might get one for saying you are buying because of irishboy)

Go with whatever brand/cost will work for you best

Myself I am going for a 2011 240w Spectra or a 2011 395w Spectra for my 2.5ft x 2.5ft x 6ft tent (I was going to get two 240w but decided it was a bit over kill, should be perfect for your 4x4 space though)
 
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