Michael Sparks
Active Member
I had to buy a couple Kessils just to my UFO panel had a short/power surge or something and fried half the lights i have to contact them about this (only had it running 16/8 for a couple weeks now)
Led Users Unite!
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www.growledhydro.com Lists the actual total draw of their lights. In some of the older models 3w LEDs were used but had to be run at half power or less because of integrity issues which is probably what is going on with your lights. The new 2011 Spectras use 2w lights now and run at closer to full power since their quality and outputs have advanced.
hey Sparks its possible only one of your lights actually died. The guy that makes the Spectras puts failsafe tech in his lights now so that if one light dies you don't lose a whole row or column (and only have to replace the single dead LED, don't know if its easy enough to do so without sending it in though). I don't know if any other LED company does that yet, anyone know?
I didn't even think about trying this earlier
here is a google cache link (because the site has been having issues last couple days) of the page with pics and specs of the new 2011 Spectras, also talks about the failsafe tech a bit
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Vr-2Zo1Dn4gJ:www.420magazine.com/forums/journals-progress/132192-irish-boys-480w-720w-grow-led-hydro-land-clovers-49.html+http://www.420magazine.com/forums/journals-progress/132192-irish-boys-480w-720w-grow-led-hydro-land-clovers-49.html&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com
PS: Spectras also have finned heat sinks which apparently blackstar doesn't, or is it an older model?
hey Sparks its possible only one of your lights actually died. The guy that makes the Spectras puts failsafe tech in his lights now so that if one light dies you don't lose a whole row or column (and only have to replace the single dead LED, don't know if its easy enough to do so without sending it in though). I don't know if any other LED company does that yet, anyone know?
I didn't even think about trying this earlier
here is a google cache link (because the site has been having issues last couple days) of the page with pics and specs of the new 2011 Spectras, also talks about the failsafe tech a bit
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Vr-2Zo1Dn4gJ:www.420magazine.com/forums/journals-progress/132192-irish-boys-480w-720w-grow-led-hydro-land-clovers-49.html+http://www.420magazine.com/forums/journals-progress/132192-irish-boys-480w-720w-grow-led-hydro-land-clovers-49.html&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com
PS: Spectras also have finned heat sinks which apparently blackstar doesn't, or is it an older model?
TshirtNinja
Well-Known Member
guys id like to announce that gotham will be offering a 900w blackstar for 949 msrp but sean said that he will offer forum members a discount. oh and since im posting im guessing yall know that i bought my 2 panels today. woot woot my ladies are gonna fatten up next week!!!
It would be awesome to cram 900w of LED into a smaller tent. But I think with the way LED lights perform it is best to have multiple smaller watt units for greater coverage. I think 200-300 total watts for every 5-6sq ft is most appropriate when using LED lights (unless you don't have room for 2 lights and thus must get a strong single light). Thats a lot of LED watts for the money though, is that the actual total draw? Because the blackstars up this page were running at half their rating?
bajafox
Well-Known Member
That explains the price... Thanks for posting, I was very close to ordering the same exact model to use as supplemental lighting until I could afford to purchase a Blackstar 300w. Looks like if I do that I will only be running about 430w total...Ok, here's the followup with some more info on the Blackstar 240W we had questions about earlier...
Dunit, KaptainKron, etc., whoever else wants to know
I finally got my 240W Blackstar in-- ordered on a Saturday, arrived 9 days later on a Monday (UPS from east to west coast).
Here are some pics of the internals, fans are 80mm "fpl8025bh" from fan-cooling.com.
I couldn't find any info on CFM onlineso I will just say they move a "lot" of air. I will compare them to a cooler master fan which also moves a "lot" of air whenever I get around to it, but its of little concern. Closeup of back panel shows one of the black boxes(controllers?) flipped over with a sticker which says "80-130V 630mA".
Connecting it to a Kill-a-Watt showed 1.13 A, and 133W. I am confused why a 240W panel is pulling 133W, especially when you subtract a few watts for each fan, and a few more for conversion efficiency-- you're looking at between 100-120W actually reaching the LEDs. At 80 LEDs, assuming 120W= 1.5W per.... so half the rated power? WTF?
After running for several hours, the internal temperature as measured with an infrared gun on the back surface of the aluminum heatsink/fan areas was about 35C (95F) with an ambient temp of about 25C (77F). I did some looking on how much temp effects the wavelength output, and I think this is well within acceptable limits (perhaps dunit can shed more light on this?)
View attachment 1416672View attachment 1416673View attachment 1416674
I went up and down that page but didn't notice any prices, have they been announced?
The prices on the website are Correct.
The 180w units are $389.99
The 240w units are $599.99 (i think these are the best power to coverage lights for multiple LED light set ups)
The 395w units are $1,099.99
And those are the total draw ratings, I don't know about the 180w units but I believe the larger units have 6 fans each). But while the blackstar appear to be 3w lights running on 1.5w these Spectras are 2w lights running on at least 1.5w
The website lists the proper total draw and costs but still has some outdated info (such as running on 3w LEDs) and outdated pictures
OOOPS I MESSED UP: it appears that it is a mix of 2w and 3w (some colors/wavelengths are only available with certain amounts of power on 2w or 3w LEDs)
meharmon
Member
120 money back guarantee, 5 year warranty on growledhydro with a higher draw... sounds like a winnah! Maybe I'll snag one of those next. Either way I'm happy with the blackstar thus far... but I may play with some aftermarket cooling if I get the itch to see about how to feed a lil more juce to them. My 400W HPS w/ ballast pulls nearly 500W by itself, so for power purposes I could run 4 blackstars with roughly the same amount o' power.
surgedup
Active Member
Damn thats awesome I dont even think I could fit a 900w what in my space I wonder how much of a deal hes giving forum members ...????
bajafox
Well-Known Member
Thanks, I couldn't find it anywhere for some reason...
I'm guessing I would need 2 of the Spectra 240's in my 4' x 4' grow tent to fully replace my 600w hps, ouch. Hopefully it will be a permanent switch though
Cereall
Well-Known Member
Sounds nice
How many actually prefer the large wattage lights?
I had a 550w and a 260w together and preferred the 260w.
So exchanged the 550w and have a total of 4 260s coming.
I just feel, for 949$, hell even for 800$ for the 900w... i would rather take 3-4 240w blackstars if i had to make the choice. The big wattage lights just have too many leds in a tighter, more concentrated area gives a lot smaller practical footprint for the amount of watts used.
I feel like my plants that were in the intersection of 2 lights footprints (if that makes sense) did better than some lights that were directly under the lamp themselves
But thats just me and my $.02 ... Not saying its a bad light or anything like that, just that i would choose a different route but would absolutely love to see a few 900w in action together
Baja, I am using 2 260w from hydroponics hut, and 2 of those efficiently replace a 600w i was using before
The lights from growledhydro, im sure those 240 are actual draw of 240w so that would easily replace a 600w hps. You could probably get away with the 180s and do just fine. Im amazed how these LEDs are performing coming from a 4x 600w setup
-My next experiment will be with the GLH lights and see how they compare to my current ones
How many actually prefer the large wattage lights?
I had a 550w and a 260w together and preferred the 260w.
So exchanged the 550w and have a total of 4 260s coming.
I just feel, for 949$, hell even for 800$ for the 900w... i would rather take 3-4 240w blackstars if i had to make the choice. The big wattage lights just have too many leds in a tighter, more concentrated area gives a lot smaller practical footprint for the amount of watts used.
I feel like my plants that were in the intersection of 2 lights footprints (if that makes sense) did better than some lights that were directly under the lamp themselves
But thats just me and my $.02 ... Not saying its a bad light or anything like that, just that i would choose a different route but would absolutely love to see a few 900w in action together
Baja, I am using 2 260w from hydroponics hut, and 2 of those efficiently replace a 600w i was using before
The lights from growledhydro, im sure those 240 are actual draw of 240w so that would easily replace a 600w hps. You could probably get away with the 180s and do just fine. Im amazed how these LEDs are performing coming from a 4x 600w setup
-My next experiment will be with the GLH lights and see how they compare to my current ones
bajafox
Well-Known Member
Thanks, I hadn't seen those before and 2 of those may be in my budget. They say one will directly replace a 600w HPS but I'm starting to realize you usually need to double their estimates to see real results.
http://hydroponicshut.com/pro-grow-260-watt-led-grow-light.html
Thanks again, I was dead set on the ISIS-2 but now I'm not sure...maybe I can use a combination of manufacturers
http://hydroponicshut.com/pro-grow-260-watt-led-grow-light.html
Thanks again, I was dead set on the ISIS-2 but now I'm not sure...maybe I can use a combination of manufacturers
Cereall
Well-Known Member
yeah i agree with double... lol they have nice footprint but not big enough to replace my 600w HPS in Magnum XXL hood
Or if you like isis, maybe their 170w model
also 2 from growledhydro.. their 180w is like 390$ and is more like a 360w max rating...
All right around same ball park price
there are many lights to choose, i know if you talk to Ben at hydro hut, he can possible shave 20 or 30$ off if you mention i referred you, very good customer service there as im sure most of these new LED companies have
Or if you like isis, maybe their 170w model
also 2 from growledhydro.. their 180w is like 390$ and is more like a 360w max rating...
All right around same ball park price
there are many lights to choose, i know if you talk to Ben at hydro hut, he can possible shave 20 or 30$ off if you mention i referred you, very good customer service there as im sure most of these new LED companies have
bajafox
Well-Known Member
Thanks, I probably won't bother any vendors until I have the money in hand. I was going to completely redo my entire ventilation to get ready for the summer but after seeing how much trouble it was going to be I started checking out LED's again. Glad I found this thread, it was very useful.... I had never even heard of Blackstar, ISIS, Spectra's or Pro-Grows until I read this thread
dunit
Active Member
Just because a panel doesn't draw close to it's maximum wattage isn't a bad thing. The best diodes in the industry (I'm talking $25 wholesale per LED units) don't recommend driving them at more than 2/3rds maximum rating. Generally speaking panels should draw about 50% of maximum rating and keep in mind you lose about 10% to your power supply (90% conversion is a very high efficiency power supply and 80-85% is more common) so in actuality your LED's are actually operating on more like 45% of advertised max (90% of 50%) which is WHERE THEY ARE MOST EFFICIENT.
The biggest problem with this whole issue is comparing apples to apples. My personal opinion is that LED can replace HID at 50% power consumption but very few companies advertize using their actual consuption so we all buy 200W panels to replace a 400WHID or 300W panels to replace a 600W HID but in actuality our panels only draw half of that so we need twice as many.
@ meharmon thanks for putting the temp gun on the Blackstar. 10C increase over ambient room temp is a lot in my opinion. My Magnum heat sink is 2-3C warmer than ambient. Keep in mind the temp on the heatsink/plate is cooler than the actual LED's themselves as they are what is making it hot. Kinda like my house is 20C but the air coming out of my furnace is about 40C. With that in mind I bet the individual LED's in that panel are over 40C which means there spectrum shift could be anywhere from 15nm to 40nm depending on the tolerance of that particluar LED. The purpose of LED horticultural lighting is to pin point the premium spectrums. For example your 660nm far-reds just became potentialy 675-700nm and that particular Chlorophyl peak is very narrow so that puts their output largely outside of the usable range.
Not trying to cause a big argument. It just helps to know this stuff so we can figure out why one panel may outperform another panel.
In the end they are going to produce usable light and grow weed, it just might not be an optimal situation but if the cost is right that might not really be an issue.
budlover909
Active Member
so dad an i finished testing
there are three drivers not including fan drivers in the '240w' LED
each driver aint deliverin or pullin more than 45w, we bought a 100w diode from http://www.ledssuperbright.com/100w-white-high-power-led-p-226 and used it as the test load for each driver on a kill a watt
the panel only uses about 120w because the three drivers combined aint capable of pushing any more power the writing on each driver itself even says 130V 350mA
y'all getting lied to bad suckered by advertising
call ya lawyers and youre welcome im gonna chill right here with my honest equipment
there are three drivers not including fan drivers in the '240w' LED
each driver aint deliverin or pullin more than 45w, we bought a 100w diode from http://www.ledssuperbright.com/100w-white-high-power-led-p-226 and used it as the test load for each driver on a kill a watt
the panel only uses about 120w because the three drivers combined aint capable of pushing any more power the writing on each driver itself even says 130V 350mA
y'all getting lied to bad suckered by advertising
call ya lawyers and youre welcome im gonna chill right here with my honest equipment
dunit
Active Member
I think it's just a matter of learning what the numbers represent. Auto industry used to advertize BHP (Brake Horse Power) which is at the flywheel and is no where near to what you are actually putting to the ground (Wheel Horse Power) so it's a similar idea.
It also explains why some light are $1100 and some are $600 for a 300W panel. If the $1100 panel is actual wattage and the $600 is max rated then you are getting more watts per dollar with the more expensive one.
budlover909
Active Member
my bad wrong link dad jst told me i was using a 50w from here http://www.ledssuperbright.com/30w-led-c-18/50w-white-high-power-led-3500-lumens-p-109
budlover909
Active Member
in lighting when you advertise 240w you better consume 240wph as thats the standard according to my father you dont say 240w using only 120w of power without mentioning versus what otherwise it misleads the customer into thinking youre geting 240w of power performance when youre not even putting in that kind of pwoer
thats why 60w incandescent bulbs are rated 60w thats why a 23w fluorescent says 23w power consumption then says equal in brightness/replaces 60w light output
going by that people see 240w uses only 120 and think they get performance of 240w led panel using only 120w power thats misleading and dishonest
thats why 60w incandescent bulbs are rated 60w thats why a 23w fluorescent says 23w power consumption then says equal in brightness/replaces 60w light output
going by that people see 240w uses only 120 and think they get performance of 240w led panel using only 120w power thats misleading and dishonest
dunit
Active Member
So arguments from me on that one. I think LED's should use the same standard as the rest of the industry. I'm guessing that it started as a marketing ploy to get more interest when they weren't that popular. A 300W panel (max rating) sounds way more believable to replace a 600W HPS than a 150W panel.
Advertising isn't about the truth, so much as which lies are legal
