This Is What I Use. This Is My Results
- Thread starter creaster
- Start date
Brick Top
New Member
Thanks for the thought about the +rep thing .. but you have no idea how much I wish the idea had never been thought of.
There's +rep and there's "likes." With February 14th coming up, Valentines Day, maybe RIU will add something so we can send each other little 'Will You Be My Valentine' messages with hearts and little Cupids and XOXO's on them. Wouldn't that be sweet?
O.T.T but funny as 
then off to bed 
nothingtodeclare
Active Member
bricktop on the molasses thing i understand that they feed microbes etc , but i was told that the plant use's lots of carbs during flower that they take from stored in leaves ,so you can feed molasses to help get increase in this an offer more readily an availability of sugar's an carb's through the uptakeof your nute soup , an also that plants produce there own good microbe's that molasses could help feed is this wrong or have i somewhat missunderstood, as i have used molasses an it seems to me that they do indeed look frostier.Thanks for any advice offered
nothingtodeclare
Active Member
ps creaster those ladie's look absolutly gorgeous you have the hydro green fingers the hydro/ganja gods were looking after you well done m8
creaster
Well-Known Member
hi all
an early update just looked in on my grow room making sure everything ok
to find my buds pistils are browning fast
i took some pics and some where real good (i think even my cam was impressed)
thought i would share and get ur feed bk on how much longer you think this gilrs got left to go
an early update just looked in on my grow room making sure everything ok
to find my buds pistils are browning fast
i took some pics and some where real good (i think even my cam was impressed)
thought i would share and get ur feed bk on how much longer you think this gilrs got left to go
Brick Top
New Member
There is something of a misconception, well it is a misconception that plants are somewhat like sponges and whatever we pour into our soil they will suck up like a sponge and use. What we add first has to be transformed into different elements that plant roots will accept and the plants can and will use.
A few examples. People talk about the nitrogen plants use, (N), but N has to be broken down into [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]NO3- NH4+ [/FONT]for roots to absorb it and for plants to then use it. Phosphorus has to become[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] H2PO4- - primary orthophosphate and[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]H2PO4= - secondary orthophosphate to be absorbed by roots and then used by plants. It is the same for every element, including the carbohydrates in molasses. Some will be used by the plants, once broken down, but most is used to feed living organisms, microbes in the soil, if you use 'living soil.'
Below is an article about carbohydrate use (though it does not strictly say molasses it still totally applies) and amino acids.
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Expert Eye: Carbohydrates and Amino Acid Products
By Urban Garden Magazine ⋅ July 12, 2010
Filed Under amino, amino acid, amino acids, aminos, carbohydrates, carbs, casparian, casparian strip, Issue 11, molasses, phloem, Plant Nutrition, Roots, Steve Berlow, steven berlow, sugar, xylem
What’s the big deal with carbohydrate and amino acid products these days? Are they being used or misused by growers? We asked Steve Berlow, a research consultant for Florigen Laboratories in BC, Canada to give us his insider perspective on the rise of carbohydrate and amino acid based products in the marketplace in recent years…
The hydroponics and indoor gardening industry is rapidly changing and evolving. Recently the pace of that change has become quite staggering with new products seeming to appear almost daily – nowhere is this more prominent than in the field of plant nutrition. In the last few years the hydroponic nutrient market has progressed from offering base nutrients and some phosphorus flowering boosters through to today’s market where a staggering (some might say ‘bewildering’array of new technologies and theories are promoted.
Two product types that have been causing a lot of chatter in the growing community are carbohydrate (sugar) supplements and amino acid based additives. And for good reason. Sugars and amino acids are both interesting concepts in the context of plant nutrition and many experts consider them to be on the cutting edge. All sounds pretty exciting doesn’t it? But before you rush off and buy that next fancy-labelled bottle of sugary or amino acid goodness, you really should get your head around some basic facts concerning these substances and the ability of plants to make use of them.
Carbohydrates – Are They Really ‘Candy’ For Your Plants?
You’ve probably heard the hype about carbs: “Feed your plants supplemental carbs and turn them into Olympic Gold Medal winners!”
So a grower walks into their local store, decides to buy a big bottle of some sugary carb supplement, with the intention of deploying it on his next res change. The notion is that the plants will suck up the carbs and get a boost of ‘pure energy’ without having to go through the hassle of producing them as a product of photosynthesis.
Errrr, sorry to spoil the big carb party, but it’s not actually that straight forward. The carbohydrate supplement is definitely a case where theory got ahead of practice. In theory providing your plants with an array of simple and complex carbohydrates seems like a great idea. We all know that plants, driven by light energy and photosynthesis, produce sugar and starch. The plant uses this for growth and development. So the theory goes – if we supplement our nutrient solution with those very same sugars and starches, then the plant won’t have to make them all for itself and can therefore devote its energy to other things – such as making big flowers and fruits! Alternatively, if the plant is undergoing a period of physical stress (such as flowering or fruiting) then the supplementation of those sugars and starches will enable the plant to grow and develop at warp speed as we have removed a limiting factor. Unfortunately all this seems feasible in a text book but, as usual, these things are rarely as simple in real life.
Why not? Well, put simply, it’s one thing to supplement a plant with carbs in a lab, quite another to do so in vivo (real life – real situation.) You can inject carbs directly into a stem or a leaf, for instance, using laboratory techniques, but surely the crunch question is: can a plant uptake carbohydrates through its roots? I have been involved in research that aimed to determine whether plants could actually uptake and utilize carbohydrates and, if so, what could they uptake and utilize. Carbohydrates range in size from very small, simple structures like glucose or fructose through to enormously large, complex molecules like polysaccharides. So – did I find that plants could uptake simple and complex carbohydrates? Other than some very simple, and small carbohydrates (e.g. plain table sugar or fructose / glucose) plants essentially cannot take up other more complex carbohydrates through their root zone. Why? It’s because of a unique little barrier in the roots called the Casparian strip – complete with his sidekick the endodermis. Essentially the Casparian strip forces everything, and that includes carbohydrates, through the endodermis to be actively selected or rejected for uptake.
Ready For The Science Bit? Introducing The Casparian Strip – Your Plant’s Very Own Homeland Security!
Inside the roots of your plants sits a very innocuous and extremely important band of cells – called the Casparian Strip. I like to think of this as a sort of “security guard” for your plant. It is used to block the passive flow of materials ( travelling between the cells), such as water and solutes into the main water carrying columns of the plant – the xylem and phloem. By doing this it forces everything to actively pass through or be rejected by the endodermis. Once within the epidermis, water passes through the cortex, mainly traveling between the cells. However, in order to enter the stele, it must pass through the cytoplasm of the cells of the endodermis. Once within the stele, water is free again to move between cells as well as through them. For solutes to pass through the endodermis they must be in inorganic, ionic form to be transported across to the stele. As you can see getting water and nutrients inside your plants is no easy process!
An interesting side note for people who grow with organic nutrients.
When you hear of the virtues of organic fertilizers, remember that such materials are unable to meet any nutritional needs of the plant until they have been degraded / converted into inorganic forms. Organic matter does play an important role in making good soil texture and rhizosphere health, but it can only meet the nutritional needs of the plant to the extent that it can yield inorganic ions. Once within the epidermis, only the inorganic ions pass inward from cell to cell.
Amino Acid supplements and supplementation – possible or possibilities?
Okay, after that bombshell, let’s take a look at Amino Acids. These are fascinating little things, these miniature building blocks of protein – body builders love them and, according to many growers, plants do too. So what roles do amino acids play in plant nutrition?
Table 1 shows the 21 Proteinogenic Amino Acids
There are total of 21 Amino Acids used in the production of protein and you’ve probably seen most of them listed on the back of a bottle by now. They are known as Proteinogenic Amino Acids
Every chemical reaction or process that goes on inside a plant relies on protein. From photosynthesis through to hormone production, growth and development, stress – proteins are used by the plant for every aspect of its life, so we can see that amino acids are very important in the big scheme of things.
This importance has not escaped the attention of researchers or manufacturers of plant nutrients and additives. We are now seeing quite a few emerging products that contain these essential building blocks of life. One area being examined by both researchers and manufacturers are amino acids that are direct precursors to hormones. Tryptophan is one popular amino acid being researched as it is the direct precursor to IAA - a powerful growth hormone. Arginine is one of the precursors for cytokinins and is a major player in the production of flowers and fruits on a biochemical level. Other exciting roles of amino acids include their part in mitigating plant stress. Proline is produced by the plant in huge quantities during times of stress to assist with osmotic balance and to maintain a positive water status.
Amino acids are also used as a source of nitrogen in the root zone as they are delaminated by rhizosphere bacteria and fungi. The bacteria feed on the amino acids and in return nitrogen, in the form of ammonia, is released which can be absorbed by the plant. Ammonia is very rapidly absorbed and utilized by the plant and, in small quantities, is very beneficial to the support of rapid growth and development.
A new and very exciting and emerging area of amino acid research, and one that I am very actively involved in, is the role played by accumulated amino acids. In plants, the roles of accumulated amino acids varies from acting as an osmolyte, the regulation of ion transport, modulating stomatal opening, and detoxification of heavy metals. Amino acids also affect the synthesis and activity of enzymes, and most excitingly of all play a major role in gene expression!
So it’s readily apparent why plant nutrient manufacturers would be interested in the humble amino acid – they could be very useful to growers! As useful as might be, amino acids are also commonly misunderstood – just like the carbohydrates we looked at earlier. Once again theory is getting way in front of reality.
As with carbohydrates no one really looked at whether plants can take actively up amino acids through their roots. A major focus of my research is examining how or if plants can take up amino acids via their roots. One method is to feed plants a solution of radioactively labelled amino acids and then take special x-rays of the whole plant 24 hours later. You can actually visualize the extent of the amino acid uptake. In all of the experiments I’ve been involved in, almost none of the amino acid solution fed to the plants had been absorbed by the roots and transported to the leaves. So what’s at play here? Once again it’s the role of the Capsarian strip and endodermis coming into play and excluding the uptake of almost all of the amino acid solution fed to the plants. Amino acid supplementation does work to a minor extent – as some, but very few, of those root fed amino acids are absorbed by the plant. The exciting thing is that even that tiny amount that is absorbed positively affects the growth and development of plants.
So what did we learn?
Only simple sugars are absorbed by the plant root system. And only a very small amount of any amino acids supplied will ever be taken up by your plant’s root system. So what does that mean? Are carboyhydrate and amino acid producs a waste of your time? No – not exactly. Even when a small amount of amino acids are absorbed by the plant, we can get some positive effects. The simple sugars in your carbohydrate products do get absorbed. Others form a good source of food for beneficial bacteria in your root zone. So there are some benefits from using these types of products – just probably not to the degree that some of us may have hoped.
Feeding your plants carbohydrate and amino supplements is not a waste of your time or money – in fact many of those simple and complex carbohydrates serve as food for the friendly bacteria and fungi in your root zone. But don’t forget that your plant’s roots constantly exude simple and complex, carbohydrates, amino acids and proteins into the rhizospere and that those exudates serve as food and growth promoting compounds for many of the beneficial bacteria, fungi and micro organisms present in your plant’s rhizoshpere.
Root exudates are commonly divided into two classes. Low-molecular weight compounds – such as amino acids, organic acids, sugars, and other secondary metabolites and high molecular weight exudates – such as mucilage (polysaccharides or complex carbs) and proteins. The rhizospheric bacteria and fungi return the favor, in a symbiotic relationship, by breaking down complex products in the rhizosphere into ionic forms the plant can absorb as well as excreting protein and secondary signalling molecules of their own that benefit the plant by increasing its rate of growth and development.
In fact, much or all of the apparent success of carbohydrate and amino acids products are due to this inadvertent power feeding of your root zone friendlies and the symbiotic benefits they return to your plants.
The Future of Carbohydrate and Amino Acids?
Biochemists and plant researchers around the world are conducting research into methods of delivering carbohydrates and or amino acids directly into the plant in large or precisely controlled amounts. We are conducting research on developing radical new delivery methods for compounds that are otherwise impossible to deliver to plants in a controlled or effective manner. Techniques such as bio and nano encapsulation technologies are currently being pursued and developed – the promise of these techniques is huge. They could allow things like complex carbohydrates and amino acids to be delivered to your plants as they need them.
THESkunkMunkie
Well-Known Member
Lookin Great Creaster!! They're nearly there now mate I'd say, but I can't really see well enough to judge the trics properly 
and I'm smashed out on DeadHead OG too mate. So thats not helping much.
HPS lights are a
to take pic's under, does your camera have a "white balance" option?? I use a Cannon digital camera and played with the white balance setting while in my grow room to get it right, All my pic's are taken under HPS, also raise the lights as high as poss before takin pic's too mate.
and I'm smashed out on DeadHead OG too mate. So thats not helping much.HPS lights are a
to take pic's under, does your camera have a "white balance" option?? I use a Cannon digital camera and played with the white balance setting while in my grow room to get it right, All my pic's are taken under HPS, also raise the lights as high as poss before takin pic's too mate.
treemansbuds
Well-Known Member
Brick top, as usual is correct again...
There are a few things that the plant will use when feeding it molasses, but the thinking that adding sugars to your grow will make the buds sweeter and frostier is WRONG. You will damage your plant with that kind of thinking. Leaves will yellow faster if you feed to much molasses, and the plants growth will slow down,...not good.
Make a tea,....I add 1 teaspoon (not tablespoon) of molasses per gallon to my compost tea. The molasses is there only to feed the "micro-beastie herd" I'm creating in my tea. You want those "micro-beasties" to be feeding, farting, crapping, and fornicating in there to create a "live" environment. Your plants will love this and love you for feeding them this tea . In bloom I add;.. molding hay, bat guano, earthworm compost, Alaskan fish emulsion (bloom), seaweed extract, cotton seed meal, hand full of Fox Farms soil, forest humus, and molasses. I brew in 5 gallon buckets 36-48 hours with an aquarium pump, pumping air itno the tea the whole time. I brew in my grow room, covered up from the light. Keep the tea room temp, not to hot, not to cold. I also mix the tea every time I;m in the grow room., not too much, but enough to get the stuff settling on the bottom.
I get great results using compost teas, and not just the molasses by it's self.
I hope this helps, and good luck with the grow....
TMB-
There are a few things that the plant will use when feeding it molasses, but the thinking that adding sugars to your grow will make the buds sweeter and frostier is WRONG. You will damage your plant with that kind of thinking. Leaves will yellow faster if you feed to much molasses, and the plants growth will slow down,...not good.
Make a tea,....I add 1 teaspoon (not tablespoon) of molasses per gallon to my compost tea. The molasses is there only to feed the "micro-beastie herd" I'm creating in my tea. You want those "micro-beasties" to be feeding, farting, crapping, and fornicating in there to create a "live" environment. Your plants will love this and love you for feeding them this tea . In bloom I add;.. molding hay, bat guano, earthworm compost, Alaskan fish emulsion (bloom), seaweed extract, cotton seed meal, hand full of Fox Farms soil, forest humus, and molasses. I brew in 5 gallon buckets 36-48 hours with an aquarium pump, pumping air itno the tea the whole time. I brew in my grow room, covered up from the light. Keep the tea room temp, not to hot, not to cold. I also mix the tea every time I;m in the grow room., not too much, but enough to get the stuff settling on the bottom.
I get great results using compost teas, and not just the molasses by it's self.
I hope this helps, and good luck with the grow....
TMB-
tyke1973
Well-Known Member
A bit of advice from someone who used to use vitalink,don't your next grow swop over to advanced sensi grow for veg, and sensi bloom for flowering.I not saying what you are doing is wrong, i have just got abit of experiance with every kind of nutes there is, and advanced will out grow everyone of them.Stick to the ammount for the age of the plant and there is no need to ph the ppms go near perfect everytime.I wish someone would have given me this advice when i first started because i have lost pounds through useing inferior nutes,but there is not much you can do on this grow never mix nutes.The thing that i would advice if you are useing vitalink is get a ppm meter,by have the nutes set at the right ppm's your overhall end result will tripple.The people from advanced make nutes that are made with the cannabis plant in mind,also get a pk spike for flowering vitalink do one called buddy.But keep this advice in mind for yr next grow.......................tyke.................................................
creaster
Well-Known Member
hi tyke
ty for the info
i also never used carbon filter,any ruck fans, ph or ec meters on this grow
all that i used is water and nutes,600w reflector hps light and a standing fan (ghetto grow)
i was going to use ionic bloom also but hydro shop i use didnt have it when i needed so i used vitalink
and for me even tho as you said you shouldnt mix nutes.i have had no probs as a result of doing so (this time)
next time tho i will be upgrading getting the carbon filter, ph meters etc. as i dont want my grow room so hot come summer that my plants spontaneously combust
also ill make sure i got the nutes i need b4 i grow
ty for the post
ty for the info
i also never used carbon filter,any ruck fans, ph or ec meters on this grow
all that i used is water and nutes,600w reflector hps light and a standing fan (ghetto grow)
i was going to use ionic bloom also but hydro shop i use didnt have it when i needed so i used vitalink
and for me even tho as you said you shouldnt mix nutes.i have had no probs as a result of doing so (this time)
next time tho i will be upgrading getting the carbon filter, ph meters etc. as i dont want my grow room so hot come summer that my plants spontaneously combust
also ill make sure i got the nutes i need b4 i grow
ty for the post
THESkunkMunkie
Well-Known Member
Most Nutrients available are made with the cannabis plant in mind!! But unlike AN these other companies don't have to boast about this fact to sell more of their products. AN are overpriced IMO and you can get just as good results without spending that much on nutes. I for instance use the "Canna" line cos of easy availability where I am and I can get it at a decent price too, I always have great results with using their nutes/additives too, also the genetic's your working with will also play a big part in the plants tric production and yeild, also style of growing and enviroment all play there parts too. I'm not sayin AN are crap or whatever, just that they're overpriced for what it is ~ same stuff different labels on the bottles in the end. It's the grower that makes the Bud what it is!!
And creaster mate you've made a great start into mari growing IMO, all you need to start are the basics and thats where you learn hands on, and thats what you've done mate. Respect to you.
And creaster mate you've made a great start into mari growing IMO, all you need to start are the basics and thats where you learn hands on, and thats what you've done mate. Respect to you.