New High Times Suggests Harvesting Earlier...RIU Rejoice!

[krok]

@Chechero:
You say CDB has nothing to do with couch-lock, that is has the opposite reaction (alert/wakeful).
You say THC gives you anxiety (=alert, wakeful).

So what do a couch-lock lover look for, or what in the plant give that effect? If you say CBN, then we are all doomed

 

[Dee Welch]

Subscribed.

 

[Brick Top]

Originally Posted by Brick Top Normally anxiety has been blamed on a racy sativa but over the years I have from time to time read messages from people who said they went to heavy indicas and amber trichomes believing they would relax them more and had major anxiety so I suppose in at least some percentage of smokers that could be the cause for anxiety.

I am not much of a couch-lock lover so I do not really keep track of strains that do have more CBD in them but other than a few that have only fairly recently been created there are very few strains to be found that are as high as 2% to 2.5% and most are under 1%.

Again, I have to correct you. THC has been known for some time now to be an anxiogenic (causing anxiety.) It does not matter if it is a sativa or an indica what matters is the THC CBD ratio. CBD is a proven anxiolytic (anxiety reducing.)

Neural basis of anxiolytic effects of cannabidiol: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20829306

Method of Action of CBD in Anxiety page 567:
http://books.google.ca/books?id=ZNIorLciZCoC&pg=PA567&lpg=PA567&dq=cbd+for+anxiety&source=bl&ots=tZBbqSoZCC&sig=IOEwOzh6cggZYQCoXy45rz1_uPk&hl=en&ei=H1X4TKPVHIbCsAPyns3TAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CD0Q6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=cbd for anxiety&f=true

Watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2cAFRAX3Gs

come on now Brick Top I know you know better, people listen to you~

You did not correct me on anything. I said how normally anxiety is blamed on racy sativas, which means major THC along with THCV, and that is factual, BUT I have known people who suffer major anxiety from heavy indicas that are not uber-high in THC and do not contain THCV and the cause because of oxidized THC increasing the levels of CBN and CBN causes confusion and disorientation and that can lead to anxiety. It is bound to be a fairly small percentage of people who have that sort of reaction, but I do know that is can and has happened.

If THC were the only cause of anxiety reactions from smoking marijuana then why are there so many medicinal sativa or predominantly strains that treat anxiety, that calm and relax people?

Here are a few medicinal sativa or sativa dominate strains that are used to treat anxiety and are well known to be calming and relaxing.

Strain Name: AK47​

Type: Hybrid – Sativa Dominant



Strain Name: Diesel​

Type: Hybrid – Sativa 70% / Indica 30%


Strain Name: Chocolope​

Type: Hybrid – 60% Sativa / 40% Indica


Strain Name: Bubblegum​

Type: Hybrid – Sativa Dominant

​

Strain Name: Blue Cheese
From: Purple Lotus Patient Center
Type: Sativa


Strain Name: Sweet Haze
Type: Sativa

​

Strain Name: Amnesia
From: Purple Lotus Patient Center
Type: Sativa – Cross of Skunk, Cinderella 99, and Jack Herer.


Strain Name: Snowcap
Type: Sativa


Strain Name: Doyon Bud
Type: Sativa


Strain Name: Cinderella 99 (C99)
Type: Hybrid – Sativa Dominant


Strain Name: Lamb’s Breath
Type: Sativa


Strain Name: Belladonna
Type: Sativa


Strain Name: Ivory Haze
Type: Sativa


Strain Name: Super Lemon Haze – cannabis cup winner 2008/2009
Grade: A/A+ Michigan’s Finest Medical Marijuana ‘H. Collective’
Type: Hybrid Sativa/Indica


Strain Name: Sweet Tooth

Type: Sativa


Strain Name: Mr. Nice Guy
Type: Sativa


Strain Name: Dairy Queen
Genetics: Cheese X Romulan X Cindy 99
Type: Hybrid Sativa Dominant


Strain Name: Big Cheese
Type: Sativa (60% Sativa / 40% Indica)



Strain Name: Purple Haze
Type: Hybrid mainly Sativa


Strain Name: Super Silver Haze
Type: Sativa



Strain Name: Jacks Cleaner
Type: Sativa


Strain Name: Blue Dream
Type: Sativa Dominant Hybrid


Strain Name: Dream Queen
Genetics: Blue Dream x Space Queen
Type: Sativa



Strain Name: Blueberry AK
Type: Sativa


Strain Name: Stinky Pete
Type: Sativa



Strain Name: Casey Jones
Type: Hybrid – 80% Sativa dominate


Strain Name: The Wiz
Type: Sativa Dominant 80/20


It is not only THC alone but instead the combination of cannabioids, the ratio, the mixture, the amounts each are in that causes whatever type of reaction in each person. If that were not the case the sativas and sativa dominant strains above would not be medicinal strains used to treat anxiety and used for their calming relaxing affects. If what you claimed were totally true they would have the absolute opposite affects.

​

 

[Brick Top]

Wow, Brick Top I don't like to correct you but you have to stop giving all this unqualified info. CBD has nothing to do with couch-lock it actually induces the exact opposite reaction, one of alertness and wakefulness.


Certain sesquiterpenoids are responsible for the sedating effects known as couch-lock.

Again you haven't corrected me. Any cannabinoid separated and tested for it's individual affects will always be different than when tested as they exist in a glandular trichome head, in the ratios, the combinations, the mixtures they are in. Each affect what the other does so some degree or another. Some enhance other affects and some take away from other affects. It is the balance, the combination that makes the final results, not what any singular cannabinoid will do/cause on it's own lacking all the rest it is intended to be combined with..

CANNABIDIOL (CBD)

Cannabidiol is nonpsychoactive and was initially thought to have no effect on the psycho activity of THC. Recent evidence however show that smokers of cannabis are less likely to experience schizophrenia-like symptoms if there is a higher CBD to THC ratio. Experiments show that participants experienced less intense psychotic effects when intravenous THC was co-administered with CBD. CBD acts as an allosteric antagonist at the CB1 receptor and thus alters the psychoactive effects of THC, resulting in a more easily manageable high.

CBD is generally considered to have more medicinal properties than THC. It appears to relieve convulsion, inflammation (and thereby also migraines), anxiety and nausea. That is why strains with a high concentration of CBD is suitable for medicinal use.

Although CBD has its own particular medicinal value it is not more important than THC when it comes to treating various afflictions. It is the interaction between the two that gives rise to the effect that sometimes alleviates the symptoms of various medical conditions.

CBD has a greater affinity for the CB2 receptor than for the CB1 receptor, meaning that its effect is mostly in the body and not so much in the head. CBD shares a precursor with THC and is the main cannabinoid in low-THC cannabis strains.

Landrace strains, usually of indica heritage, contain higher concentrations of CBD than recreational drug strains, which are usually bred towards a higher concentration of THC. This is the reason why strains containing high ratios of CBD can be difficult to find.

Certain sesquiterpenoids are responsible for the sedating effects known as couch-lock.

That is true, in part, but not they are not only cause, and now you are talking about terpenoids and when you bring terpenoids such as sesquiterpenoids into the discussion, once that happens it opens a whole different can of worms. You are then talking about noncannabinoid-type constituents, an entirely different group of chemical compounds/elements that can be acyclic, monocyclic or polycyclic hydrocarbons with substitution patterns including alcohols, ethers, aldehydes, keytones and esters.

 

[Brick Top]

So true Brink Top....I grow SMT and if I waited for the pistols to turn from white to orange or brown I would wait forever, they just don't.

No ... they will change color .. but by then you would have grown the plants so far past peak potency that their main value would be for compost.

 

[fdd2blk]

blah, i know everything.

if you don't know if it's ready yet, it's not ready.


it's a plant, not rocket science.


is this apple ripe?

 

[fdd2blk]

No ... they will change color .. but by then you would have grown the plants so far past peak potency that their main value would be for compost.

so if you let it go to long it won't get you high?


a hahahhahahahhahahaha

i hope you don't really believe half of what you post.

 

[Brick Top]

so if you let it go to long it won't get you high?


a hahahhahahahhahahaha

i hope you don't really believe half of what you post.

I can give an example of where growing plants well past their prime results in a near total lack of a high.

I had several nights where I had major pains during the night. After the third night the following morning I went to my Doctor's office and within an hour I was in a hospital bed scheduled to have my gallbladder removed the following day. After the operation, when it is not uncommon for someone to be released that day, I was kept for one more day because there was such an infection problem that everything the surgeon touched around my gallbladder bled like mad. I was released the following day around 11:00 AM and was home in about an hour and a half.

The night before my last painful attack I checked my plants and was going to harvest the following morning. It was one of the rare occasions where I did wait for a bit more amber to be seen than usual. In the short period of time I was gone, three days, the trichomes had turned to a dark brown. After drying and curing all there was, was a very faint high with a totally dead-dull feeling, both short lived, that also caused an upset stomach and a major headache.

I had grown the strain before from the same batch of beans so I knew it was not a case of bad/weak genetics. The previous grow I harvested them as I usually do and it was high quality. The night I decided to harvest the following morning I quick dried a bud and while naturally harsh it gave a very powerful long lasting high. The only difference between the two grows was the very rapid and major change of trichome progression over three days from about 30% or 40% amber to almost all trichomes being a dark brown, which was a sign that almost all the THC had oxidized and turned into CBN. Why there was such a rapid transformation of trichome color has always baffled me since it was the only time I ever encountered it, but the results of smoking what had obviously grown well past it's prime were nothing I would ever care to experience again.

I tossed it all, it was utterly worthless unless someone wanted a high that was so horrible that it would make the worst brickweed seem like true Panama Red in comparison and if they really enjoy major headaches and like upset stomachs.

Maybe that would be considered too be getting high or getting stoned to you, but it isn't too me.

If someone grows a plant long enough it will become virtually worthless.

 

[fdd2blk]

i have grown my fair share of plants. i have let many a lower bud stay on outdoor plants well into Dec., two months past harvest time. i smoke it and it gets me high. makes excellent hash as well. you can post 400 pages of text and it still doesn't change what i have personally experienced.

 

[Brick Top]

i have grown my fair share of plants. i have let many a lower bud stay on outdoor plants well into Dec., two months past harvest time. i smoke it and it gets me high. makes excellent hash as well. you can post 400 pages of text and it still doesn't change what i have personally experienced.

And you can post short two and a half to three line messages stating your claims and it will never alter in any way what I personally experienced.

 

[Chechero]

If THC were the only cause of anxiety reactions from smoking marijuana then why are there so many medicinal sativa or predominantly strains that treat anxiety, that calm and relax people?

Here are a few medicinal sativa or sativa dominate strains that are used to treat anxiety and are well known to be calming and relaxing.
[/LEFT]

Look I don't want to argue. THC causes anxiety while CBD gets rid of it. This is a well known medical fact supported by clinical studies. Give support to your statements.

THC Causes Anxiety: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17211649
CBD Counters Anxiety: http://www.scribd.com/doc/39376623/crippa-how-does-cbd-counter-anxiety

As a breeder and medical grower I need to know these things.

Making Medicine, Chechero

 

[fdd2blk]

And you can post short two and a half to three line messages stating your claims and it will never alter in any way what I personally experienced.

so keep scaring people into harvesting early. you're doing a GREAT job.

 

[Chechero]

Hey Krok! Your chart is a little off. THC does not = alert/wakeful. According to Ethan Russo & Geoffrey W. Guy & a study conducted by GW Pharmaceuticals (the creators of Sativex) the University of Washington School of Medicine & the University of Montana Department of Pharmaceutical Sciences titled A tale of two cannabinoids: The therapeutic rationale for combining tetrahydrocannabinol and cannabidiol http://mcforadhd.free.fr/Russo_Tale_of_Two_Cannabinoids_Med_Hypoth_2006.pdf IF YOU DON'T WANT TO READ IT PLEASE LOOK AT THE CHART ON PAGE 237 LOOK UNDER CNS EFFECTS AT ANXIOLYTIC ANTIPSYCHOTIC & SEDATION COMPARE THC VS CBD & THE + - READING. These are well funded medical studies. I don't make this stuff up, I just feel the need to know.

As for what gives us that Couch-Lock it is actually a terpenoid named Sesterterpenoid.

Making Medicine, Chechero

 

[Brick Top]

Originally Posted by Brick Top If THC were the only cause of anxiety reactions from smoking marijuana then why are there so many medicinal sativa or predominantly strains that treat anxiety, that calm and relax people?

Here are a few medicinal sativa or sativa dominate strains that are used to treat anxiety and are well known to be calming and relaxing.

Look I don't want to argue. THC causes anxiety while CBD gets rid of it. This is a well known medical fact supported by clinical studies. Give support to your statements.

Frankly I am not sure what you are going on about. I said that THC can cause anxiety, but it is not the only cause. I said that it is the combination, the balance, the ratio of the various cannabinoids in conjunction with each other in whatever proportions that are actually responsible. If not than every single strain of marijuana would cause anxiety because it all has THC.

I used the sativas and predominantly sativa crosses listed above as examples of medicinal strains to treat anxiety and to calm and relax a person, which each and every single one are, that are high THC and low CBD strains but are not anxiety inducing. It is because of the proportions, the ratios, the mixture, the balance of the various cannabinods working together in a way that is not anxiety inducing. "As a breeder and a medical" you should known such things.

Also as a bit of a side note .. I had never said CBD does not help with anxiety. If you got that from something I wrote you misunderstood me. I said that increased levels of CBN that cause disorientation and confusion can also cause anxiety besides THC causing anxiety. "As a breeder and a medical" you should know such things.

THC Causes Anxiety: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17211649

Gee .. an abstract from a government site. How convincing. Where is the full paper, where is all the research, where are the testing procedures explained?

CBD Counters Anxiety: http://www.scribd.com/doc/39376623/crippa-how-does-cbd-counter-anxiety

Again, I never said CBD does not counter anxiety and I never said it causes anxiety, what I said is a true body stone comes from CBD, that CBD is where the true relaxing affects of a body stone come from, your own link/information supports what I had said. I also said a true body stone does not from CBN and that in rare cases increased levels of CBN can and will cause anxiety due to confusion and disorientation. Is that really all that difficult for you to understand?

But I also said that CBD alone is not the only cause for calming and relaxing affects of marijuana, and it is not. It is one cause, but not the only cause. "As a breeder and a medical" you should know such things.

Just so you can say that you are; "a breeder and a medical" again will you once again attempt to drag terpenoids into this or maybe this time it will be flavonoids or noncannabinoid phenols?

Just out of curiosity, how many decades have you been; "a breeder," or maybe just how many years you have been; "a breeder," and how many years have you been; "a medical" and what is the definition of; "a medical," you are using, a professional breeder of medicinal marijuana strains, an amateur breeder of medicinal marijuana strains or a medicinal patient that dabbles in breeding strains they hope will have some medicinal value or possibly something else?

 

[Brick Top]

so keep scaring people into harvesting early. you're doing a GREAT job.

I certainly do not want to get into a pissing contest with you since I learned from bitter experience that you play with a stacked deck to assure that you win, but as I said in an earlier message there is a difference between the words; "earlier" and "early" and that many people in this thread seem tototally fail to understand the difference and what information goes along with the reasons to harvest; "earlier" rather than later.

Clearly you are one who does not understand that; "earlier" only means not waiting for more than 5% to 10% amber trichomes to develop, not growing past peak potency, as has for some years now doing so has incorrectly been believed by many to be the best thing to do.

The title to the thread is; "New High Times Suggests Harvesting Earlier" It is not New High Times Suggests Harvesting Early. Do you see the difference between the two? You. and some others, are attempting to redefine the word; "earlier" into meaning; "early" so what I have preached for years and what recent research has proven will not prove that what you, and many others like you, do it actually growing your plants past peak levels or potency.

If that is what you like to do, to intentionally throw away THC, to intentionally allow it to oxidize and turn into CBN, if that gives you the buzz that you most prefer I am 100% totally cool and the gang with it. I just really dislike it when someone claims something that is nothing more than their personal preference to be better or the best for all.

I am not telling people when they should harvest. I am telling people that if they want to harvest when peak THC potency has been achieved then they want to harvest when they see between 5% and 10% amber trichomes and the rest are cloudy/milky. If they prefer something different that is their choice, that is there option and it is what they should do. But they should never tell others that doing what they prefer, either harvesting early or waiting for high percentages of amber trichomes to develop, equates to peak levels of THC.

By all means do with what you grow whatever you prefer but I hate to see you attempt to scare people into growing their plants past the point where peak levels of THC are achieved, if peak levels of THC is what they want, simply because doing so is what you prefer too do.

 

[fdd2blk]

i'd rather harvest too late then too early.

everyone else can do whatever they want.

i have nothing to prove here.

how's that for "a stacked deck"?

 

[Hudsonvalley82]

Bottom line is that if you are not paying attention to your trichromes then you are probably missing potential.

 

[abe supercro]

most distinctions of the effects of cannabis stop with the difference between thc and cbd. now cbd and the possible conversion of some of it, and some of the thc, into CBN should be of concern to all growers and consumers. assuming that CBN results in less of each (or of one) of the desired main properties of cannabis being thc and cbd, then CBN is to be avoided unless it contains some desirable property previously unmentioned.

if amber spheres may be translated as oxidation is beginning to occur resulting in both thc and cbd to be diminished, as well as the negative side-effects from the presence of CBN, then it is my opinion to not go very far into the amber zone. i tend to seek majority cloudy/milky spheres w/ a few clear, as long as the far majority have matured into swollen full spheres. i will mention that cbd is not the focus on precisely when i cut, thc has generally been more of a priority w/ this method.

 

[gumball]

sounds like the plant is rusting, ha, im high

 

[Chechero]

Gee .. an abstract from a government site. How convincing. Where is the full paper, where is all the research, where are the testing procedures explained?

I hate having to spoon feed you Brick Top. When you argue with Pubmed and research published there by the Department of Pharmacology and Cancer Biology of Duke University Medical Center my credentials are unlikely to impress, although I can tell you that you have heard of me & have likely also used one of my strains at some point in your life. The findings of the study were very clear:

"In the EPM and light-dark tasks, THC was anxiogenic in both age groups"

However, seeing as your unqualified statements hold more weight than the Department of Pharmacology and Cancer Biology of Duke University Medical Center and you would like to replicate the experiment in your lab the complete study can be purchased @: http://www.springerlink.com/content/u0330457786022t4/
You really are a Brick Top. I liked you better when you just accepted my amendments to your statements. I suppose we can still be friends~ LOL