xxRolandxx
Active Member
Personally I would have a small Honda gas generator in my trunk for emergencies. Much like you might carry jumper cables in a traditional car. And about 4 or 5 liters of petrol.
nah, we dont need to drill for oil
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Chad Sexington
Active Member
They should make some sort of "fat camp" for obese people and have them run on something like a hamster wheel that would generate electricity. Not only could they get paid to get skinny wich will in turn fix some of the unemployement issues, it would mean more healthy people and less of a strain on the dreaded obamacare.
beardo
Well-Known Member
that's what I said they should do with illegal immigrants and prisoners
Chad Sexington
Active Member
Haha, just like Conan.
I have a 1,000 Watt PV system, WITH BATTERIES. It does NOT create power at night. I challenge you to find a single photovoltaic panel that creates electricity without light. You can stop trying to be smart, it isn't working.
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
The genius of Obama...Isn't that an oxymoron?
I've run a PV setup for years and no matter how hard I try to get the batteries to charge at night they just won't do it. Although the right kind of charge controller can generate power in less than optimal conditions like cloudy or even slightly drizzly days. I've heard of people that claim they made power on a moonlit night, but I'm thinking they were stretching the truth a bit.
I've run a PV setup for years and no matter how hard I try to get the batteries to charge at night they just won't do it. Although the right kind of charge controller can generate power in less than optimal conditions like cloudy or even slightly drizzly days. I've heard of people that claim they made power on a moonlit night, but I'm thinking they were stretching the truth a bit.
Hudsonvalley82
Well-Known Member
I don't know about generating power during the night, but as far as the energy they produce for a household on a sunny day, even just a 1 KW PV, thats its best application. Supplemental residential and commercial electricity generation. If 3% of us households got midrange PV cells, the impact on the entire system would be significant.
Every 2000 house holds that get a 1 KW per day panel (1 sq meter 150W panel), that is a parallel grid impact of 1 MW per day. 1 KW is a pretty common panel size. 1 MW per day being left on the table is worth getting in my opinion. Thats 1 MW less that is needed by power plants that day, or 1 more MW that drives down the cost of electricity.
Every 2000 house holds that get a 1 KW per day panel (1 sq meter 150W panel), that is a parallel grid impact of 1 MW per day. 1 KW is a pretty common panel size. 1 MW per day being left on the table is worth getting in my opinion. Thats 1 MW less that is needed by power plants that day, or 1 more MW that drives down the cost of electricity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_shale_reserves
Just because you don't know what I am talking about doesn't make it wrong. You might actually fact check yourself. Obviously you don't know what oil shale is. America has a vast majority of the oil on earth. Fact.
Solar Panels
The issue with solar panels is return on investment. Lets say I have an electric bill of 2000 kw a month. With an average cost of 250.
So that means I will use about 24,000 kw a year, and $3,000 a year. That is pretty straight forward and easy to understand.
A 10kw panel will probably net me how much energy? Assuming 100kw a day (which is way overkill) and a fair ticket price of 50k depending on what you get. At 50k that would be 16-17 years before I even broke even. You would have to replace the batteries by now. That is very generous to the solar side, all considering. Considering how much it would cost to maintain and battery replacement every 5-10 years. They rate most solar systems for about 20 years.
Why does it cost so much to buy electric panels? If they could be made for real cheap, someone would do it. Making solar panels is very energy intensive and some of the material pricey.
The only way you could possibly save money over the life of a solar panel at the current technology level is to hope for massive inflation of our money and finance it for long terms.
Most solar power homes run off of a lot less than that because they spent a lot of money buying energy efficient appliances and changed their lifestyles. However, those appliances cost a LOT of money. If you were building new it would make sense to get energy efficient, but if you are in a already built home, it loses most of its appeal as the money to convert costs more than the money to run the current appliances out through their serviceable life.
Within a decade or two we will probably have solar energy down to a reasonable cost. Until then, we will keep burning and reacting things.
Electric Cars
Most people who are all about electric cars don't stop and think they only get as many miles per charge as they do because they are the size of a go cart. Many European cars get 50+ mpg with just gas. Why can't I get a 50+ gasoline mpg car? The government has 'safety' regulations that don't let me. Also, they are a lot cheaper than the Prius and better looking. I drove a Micra in Ireland for a few weeks, and I loved it. It was even fun to drive. All of 80 hp, 50 mpg, cooler and cheaper than the prius. Im guessing it would outrun it too.
Why would you spend 25-30k on a Prius or other electric when you can buy a 15k car brand new. 10k is a LOT of gas - likely 100k miles worth in most cars. I think 10k to save 20 mpg is insane when you will never recoup your money.
Electric cars and solar panels have a lot in common - they are fringe non economically viable products for people who need something to make them feel better about their consumerism at the moment. In the future they will viable and useful, until then it is not worth it.
The issue with solar panels is return on investment. Lets say I have an electric bill of 2000 kw a month. With an average cost of 250.
So that means I will use about 24,000 kw a year, and $3,000 a year. That is pretty straight forward and easy to understand.
A 10kw panel will probably net me how much energy? Assuming 100kw a day (which is way overkill) and a fair ticket price of 50k depending on what you get. At 50k that would be 16-17 years before I even broke even. You would have to replace the batteries by now. That is very generous to the solar side, all considering. Considering how much it would cost to maintain and battery replacement every 5-10 years. They rate most solar systems for about 20 years.
Why does it cost so much to buy electric panels? If they could be made for real cheap, someone would do it. Making solar panels is very energy intensive and some of the material pricey.
The only way you could possibly save money over the life of a solar panel at the current technology level is to hope for massive inflation of our money and finance it for long terms.
Most solar power homes run off of a lot less than that because they spent a lot of money buying energy efficient appliances and changed their lifestyles. However, those appliances cost a LOT of money. If you were building new it would make sense to get energy efficient, but if you are in a already built home, it loses most of its appeal as the money to convert costs more than the money to run the current appliances out through their serviceable life.
Within a decade or two we will probably have solar energy down to a reasonable cost. Until then, we will keep burning and reacting things.
Electric Cars
Most people who are all about electric cars don't stop and think they only get as many miles per charge as they do because they are the size of a go cart. Many European cars get 50+ mpg with just gas. Why can't I get a 50+ gasoline mpg car? The government has 'safety' regulations that don't let me. Also, they are a lot cheaper than the Prius and better looking. I drove a Micra in Ireland for a few weeks, and I loved it. It was even fun to drive. All of 80 hp, 50 mpg, cooler and cheaper than the prius. Im guessing it would outrun it too.
Why would you spend 25-30k on a Prius or other electric when you can buy a 15k car brand new. 10k is a LOT of gas - likely 100k miles worth in most cars. I think 10k to save 20 mpg is insane when you will never recoup your money.
Electric cars and solar panels have a lot in common - they are fringe non economically viable products for people who need something to make them feel better about their consumerism at the moment. In the future they will viable and useful, until then it is not worth it.
the problem with your 'return on investment' calculation is that you are not taking into account the overall impact on capacity needs that a certain number of houses
generating a set amount of electricity through solar energy will have on the profitability equations of utilities companies.
you are assuming that you'll spend a certain amount of money to generate electricity and that kwh prices will remain the same. which is incorrect. there would be a drop in demand, and price would change accordingly.
the incremental analysis would be complicated enough for a group of PHD's in Utilities Management, Electrical Engineering, Finance, Economics, etc.....
and electric cars could be practical to certain people, like low wage earners who probably have to commute to work almost every day, almost no vacation time, who wouldn't be likely to take a 1200 mile 12 day road trip for fun 3-4 times a year. it would be practical for somebody who lives 20 miles from work, has to go in 6 days a week, can't miss a day, and wouldn't miss a day b/c he can't afford it. that's a person who would have use for a cheap running, quiet, efficient electric vehicle...
these companies are marketing these things as exotic and esoteric investments to help the planet, which only very wealthy people would buy to drive around their country clubs, or TV networks trying to set their 'reality' show apart by using 'cool, trendy, and environmentally friendly' vehicles...... not really the right approach in my opinion......
The solar panel cost thing is very hard to calculate, I agree 100% percent. Hell, they couldn't even see the huge collapse of our economy coming. I think having less demand for coal as solar power is implemented and no need to upgrade power plants would cause the price to stay the same or drop. Supply and demand. I agree solar power is the future. I don't think it is feasible now, because it doesn't make sense $. Until people can actually save money - not just break even in 20 or even 10 years, it isn't going to take off. If you have to calculate for hours to even guess at what you might benefit from - it isn't a very clear cut solution. Most people can't even add.
Those are the people who electric cars would be the least practical to. If you drive 50 miles a day in a $30k electric car, it would take you like 7 or 8 years to just break even on the purchase price vs an Aveo or something to that effect. No one who buys a 30k car is keeping it that long for the most part. If you count the charging its probably 12 or 15. Electric cars at current cost are not feasible in any way. If they lowered safety standards and allowed what are essentially go carts with electric engines that cost 5k then it would definitely be realistic.
Shale oil is not the same thing as crude oil.
Hudsonvalley82
Well-Known Member
People buy a $60K 25 MPG lexus to commute to work and don't even bat an eye. Its really not about cost as it is about ideals. 30K is a pretty good price for a new car. People gobbled up the prius and that shit was really expensive when it came out as well, no one ever saved enough gas with that thing to make up for it, but the little fuckers are all over the place (and generally speeding like a bat out of hell to negate all that wonderful fuel savings).
I never said it was crude oil. It is energy intensive to get out of the ground. It is oil none the less, and can be used to make gasoline.
I would also point out that America has 27% of the worlds coal, and we have technology to turn coal into oil.
We will go through a period where gas will jump to 6-7 bucks and then once we get serious about shale oil it will come way down in price and we will have hundreds of years of cheap oil to get us through until we figure out solar panels or fission and everything moves to electric. Even if we had all the free power in the world, we will forever need oil to make plastics and everything else. We have only been using oil in large amounts for a relatively short time, we have more than enough dino fuels to keep us going until we we figure out something that lasts forever. Look at the massive technological changes in the last 100 years, do you honestly believe we aren't going to figure out some new stuff in the next 20?
I know, but it wasn't about energy savings, it was about being trendy. The Prius did fuck all for consumption. Just making a smaller lighter gas car would of done the same thing. We could have 50mpg cars for 5-7k next year in the US if the government wasn't a bunch of fuckheads. Companies would love to ship those cars to America.
RawBudzski
Well-Known Member
Your all Idiots. ENERGY IS NOT FREE. deal with it. your lucky Humans as a species have come far enough to where YOU YOURSELF are not out their DAILY HUNTING FOR FOOD. so give it a break, If you cant afford your Bills or Gas maybe you should have TRIED HARDER IN LIFE or GROWN MORE PLANTS. I hate ppl whining over shit when it could be so worse. THEIR IS RENEWABLE ENERGY, THEIR IS LONG LASTING ENERGY. BUT THEIR ISNT ENOUGH OF IT FOR EVERY SINGLE PERSON ON THE PLANTET SO BACK TO MY POINT. What makes YOU AS A HUMAN SO SPECIAL TO BE GIVEN INFINITE ENERGY. NOTHING I BET. SO UNTIL YOU EARN A NOBEL PRIZE, SAVE IT. cause your a DRAG on the Human Race itself. go cry
Chad Sexington
Active Member
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
"Your all idiots" . Um, did you mean "you're all idiots" ? Anyway have a nice day. I'm going to go polish my nobel prize. Ciao.
we don't need plastics as we use them today.
we only NEED certain types of plastics for medical equipment and certain technological applications...... everything else could be made of other natural, replenishible fibers and materials like silk, hemp, wood, paper, glass, among others...
a plastic bag takes like twenty thousand years to break down.... to me, it's not worth the handful of groceries that fit in it.....
i try to use tote bags for shopping, or ask for paper when I can.....
we only NEED certain types of plastics for medical equipment and certain technological applications...... everything else could be made of other natural, replenishible fibers and materials like silk, hemp, wood, paper, glass, among others...
a plastic bag takes like twenty thousand years to break down.... to me, it's not worth the handful of groceries that fit in it.....
i try to use tote bags for shopping, or ask for paper when I can.....