New High Times Suggests Harvesting Earlier...RIU Rejoice!

[Chechero]

Assuming that CBN results in less of each (or of one) of the desired main properties of cannabis being thc and cbd, then CBN is to be avoided unless it contains some desirable property previously unmentioned.

True. Very true. CBN actually attenuates the effects of THC.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T1J-475THFW-N1&_user=10&_coverDate=06/17/1986&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1633678326&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=e58bbeada6e9fcbef6253244686b6e7e&searchtype=a

I will mention that cbd is not the focus on precisely when i cut, thc has generally been more of a priority w/ this method.

Again true. CBD is not determined by any growing meathod or technique including when one harvests. It is almost entirely determined by the genetics of the strain.

 

[krok]

Hey Krok! Your chart is a little off. THC does not = alert/wakeful. According to Ethan Russo & Geoffrey W. Guy & a study conducted by GW Pharmaceuticals (the creators of Sativex) the University of Washington School of Medicine & the University of Montana Department of Pharmaceutical Sciences titled A tale of two cannabinoids: The therapeutic rationale for combining tetrahydrocannabinol and cannabidiol http://mcforadhd.free.fr/Russo_Tale_of_Two_Cannabinoids_Med_Hypoth_2006.pdf IF YOU DON'T WANT TO READ IT PLEASE LOOK AT THE CHART ON PAGE 237 LOOK UNDER CNS EFFECTS AT ANXIOLYTIC ANTIPSYCHOTIC & SEDATION COMPARE THC VS CBD & THE + - READING. These are well funded medical studies. I don't make this stuff up, I just feel the need to know.

As for what gives us that Couch-Lock it is actually a terpenoid named Sesterterpenoid.

Making Medicine, Chechero

You're so much fun!

edit: removed angry rant

 

[krok]

I'll just say what to avoid if you want couchlock high: 50% amber at harvest, then a 2 month cure.
If you do this, you'll be in CBN-hell - it's terrible. I made BHO out of it.

 

[gumball]

I would just like to make the simple suggestion, without the science to back me up. Riddleme says it best, read your plants. If part of it looks ready, snip it and try it somehow. read all the signs, including the most important ones, whichever they may be to each individual grower. We (not me I dont have the intelligence in this regard) could scientifically debate this all day long. But remember your going over everyones head, or at least 70% of us. And on top of that, a lot of the newer growers want you to tell them what to do with their plants. I literally had a grower tell me that, that he needed me to tell him what to do with his plants, uh chop'em and send them here

No disrespect to any of the debating sides it has been a little comical and educational. But you can only lead the grower to information, you cannot make them read it...

PS, some may like the effects of CBN, we are all different individuals.

 

[done]

I read another artical in Skunk mag., called ripening, Dutch medical firm (which produces cannabis for pharmacies in netherlands) harvests at the start of ripening cycle (indica will have a higher % of thc at start ripening cycle, thrich.s opaque) maintaining 19% THC. Also sayes for most of us this would be to early..

 

[Brick Top]

I hate having to spoon feed you Brick Top. When you argue with Pubmed and research published there by the Department of Pharmacology and Cancer Biology of Duke University Medical Center my credentials are unlikely to impress, although I can tell you that you have heard of me & have likely also used one of my strains at some point in your life.

Duke is just up the road from me a bit ... roughly an hour ... my ex-neighbor used to do DNA research there .... not that either of those things really matter.

Possibly I have heard of you or even tried one or more of your strains before, but why the mystery man thing? If you are someone I have heard of and respect the work of why not say who you are? After all, anyone can claim to actually be someone others likely have heard of. Are you worried that if you reveal who you are that you will have a herd of RIU groupies sending hundreds of friends requests so they can say they are an online friend of someone they might see as being something of a rock star of cannabis. Or are you more concerned that people will scratch their heads and say .. ehhhh .. never head of the person and don't know anything about their strains?

"In the EPM and light-dark tasks, THC was anxiogenic in both age groups"

You still seem to be attempting to argue, no, I will just call it discuss, something that I made clear that we both agreed on. I have said THC will cause anxiety in some people. But what I also said is it is less the THC in cannabis than the combination of cannabinoids that causes anxiety since some work to enhance others and others will diminish the affects of others and when in different ratios/balances/combinations or however you prefer it anxiety will or will not occur.

Now if you are saying that THC and THC along, totally separate from all other cannabinoids and ternenoids and other elements found in glandular trichome heads is given to someone, smoke, ingested or whatever then anxiety will be the reaction, that would be a horse of a different color, but also one that would not fit into a discussion like this in that no one will grow a crop resulting in only THC being found and all other chemical substances would be lacking.

If you are talking about THC and THC alone, and had made that clear I would have just agreed with you and left it at that. But that was not and is not what I am talking about and if it is what you are talking about you are talking about a different subject than I am.

I also added that in what might be a small percentage of people the confusion and disorientation caused by increased levels of CBN will also cause anxiety. I am sure it is for different reasons but it is still anxiety nonetheless.

However, seeing as your unqualified statements hold more weight than the Department of Pharmacology and Cancer Biology of Duke University Medical Center and you would like to replicate the experiment in your lab the complete study can be purchased @: http://www.springerlink.com/content/u0330457786022t4/

Clearly you purchased it if you know it so why not be a pal and share it with us all and in doing so prove your point beyond any shadow of a doubt? That is unless like many you only rely on an abstract and then fill in the volumes of missing information with what you believe too be true.

You really are a Brick Top. I liked you better when you just accepted my amendments to your statements. I suppose we can still be friends~ LOL

I never suspected that you had any cause or reason to like me in the first place so I am amazed that you said you; "suppose we can still be friends." Gee that is so very sweet of you .. Will You Be My Valentine?

As for friends, I am not here to make friends but as gruff as I might come across I really do not hate anyone, not here anyway ... but maybe the pucchiaca who lives across the street from me.

I just had a thought ... which is bound too be absurd .... but I do tend to search for clues and use a little deductive reasoning at times and something you said made me wonder if it was a clue, either intended or unintended. It was where you said; "I suppose we can still be friends." Now being friends is not the same as love but it makes me almost have to wonder if you have a potion for such, possibly even as many as three of them. If so and if this were the old TV show What's My Line ... I would win.

 

[Shankapotomus]

Good thread here and interesting read.
From what I have read so far I am coming to the
conclusion that it is a matter of taste.
Let's face it, now more than ever with the decriminalization and wide
acceptance of Marijuana we are just starting to find our preferences for this drug.
I think we still have some exploring to do.
With all the current and developing strains, I still think there is some refining to do.
Just like the different alcohols out there, we need to find what we like the best
out of each individual strain.
Not everyone likes the same. Bud or Coors? Single malt or Double.
I think here lies the key to the harvest time.
Some prefer taste, the stone, the pain relief or a number of other effects which can
be had from the different strains and harvest times.
I know this thread is about trich harvest time and peak THC levels, however
I think as time goes on, everyone will not concentrate on how to produce
the "Everclear"of Cannibis, rather the different affects desired or taste
like a fine wine and not concentrate on the alcohol content or in this case
THC.

.

​

 

[Brick Top]

most distinctions of the effects of cannabis stop with the difference between thc and cbd. now cbd and the possible conversion of some of it, and some of the thc, into CBN should be of concern to all growers and consumers. assuming that CBN results in less of each (or of one) of the desired main properties of cannabis being thc and cbd, then CBN is to be avoided unless it contains some desirable property previously unmentioned.

if amber spheres may be translated as oxidation is beginning to occur resulting in both thc and cbd to be diminished, as well as the negative side-effects from the presence of CBN, then it is my opinion to not go very far into the amber zone. i tend to seek majority cloudy/milky spheres w/ a few clear, as long as the far majority have matured into swollen full spheres. i will mention that cbd is not the focus on precisely when i cut, thc has generally been more of a priority w/ this method.

THC BIOSYNTHESIS

 

[Brick Top]

Good thread here and interesting read.
From what I have read so far I am coming to the
conclusion that it is a matter of taste.
Let's face it, now more than ever with the decriminalization and wide
acceptance of Marijuana we are just starting to find our preferences for this drug.
I think we still have some exploring to do.
With all the current and developing strains, I still think there is some refining to do.
Just like the different alcohols out there, we need to find what we like the best
out of each individual strain.
Not everyone likes the same. Bud or Coors? Single malt or Double.
I think here lies the key to the harvest time.
Some prefer taste, the stone, the pain relief or a number of other effects which can
be had from the different strains and harvest times.
I know this thread is about trich harvest time and peak THC levels, however
I think as time goes on, everyone will not concentrate on how to produce
the "Everclear"of Cannibis, rather the different affects desired or taste
like a fine wine and not concentrate on the alcohol content or in this case
THC.

.

​

Actually the point is to make better, proper, strain selections that will genetically give you what you want, like or need the most when harvesting at peak levels of THC rather than do like so very many people do, make very poor strain selections, and then attempt to alter them, attempting to turn them into what they genetically are not but what they would like them to be by harvesting late when the plants have passed their peak level of potency.

 

[r1tony]

Here is the same plant from above after 4 days of hang dry, on it's way to jars. It's White Berry from Paradise seeds. I need a better camera or something cause theese pictures don't do it justice!
View attachment 1404080View attachment 1404081View attachment 1404089View attachment 1404083View attachment 1404086

lol slayer lighter.. epic fail man. lol

 

[Alex Kelly]

I've noticed that my trics even at day 20 can be cloudy, does that mean they're ready to harvest? I think that a plant is ready for harvest when it shows multiple signs of ripeness (swollen calyxes, red/orange/brown pistols, and a change in tric color and structure).

Hope that's not a serious question. Unneccessary and not helpful.

 

[Fatty R Buckle]

I've got a couple different strains that you can roll them over a hundred days and no brown/ amber only milky.. I think its knowing your strains..

 

[cannabisguru]

New High Times has an article that says Dr. Paul G. Mahlberg has done a study proving that trichromes are most potent when clear-not milky and certainly not amber. Can anyone find this study without spending 3 days reading everything the guy ever wrote?

This is total bullshit and I would LOVE an email addy for this "Doctor".

Science is science.. facts are facts and the fact is.. when it comes to cannabis, THC is store inside the trichs (the bulbulous ones; the ones with the glass globe head). If the trich is clear (transparent).. that's a CLEAR indicator that the plant has not matured enough to fill the trichs with any resin/thc.

Now, to further prove my point.. what part of the plant is responsible for getting the smoker stoned? Answer: The trichs are.. period.

Why do you think people like to sift kief? All kief is.. is trichs. Pure THC pretty much.. without the plant material.


So again, where this so called "doctor" got his PHD.. is a mystery.. and I still would just LOVE to be able to debate this with him personally.. face to face.

Ugghh.. I mean, that's just common freaking sense man.

He clearly has no idea what he's talking about..

peace..

 

[GreatwhiteNorth]

This is total bullshit and I would LOVE an email addy for this "Doctor".

Science is science.. facts are facts and the fact is.. when it comes to cannabis, THC is store inside the trichs (the bulbulous ones; the ones with the glass globe head). If the trich is clear (transparent).. that's a CLEAR indicator that the plant has not matured enough to fill the trichs with any resin/thc.

Now, to further prove my point.. what part of the plant is responsible for getting the smoker stoned? Answer: The trichs are.. period.

Why do you think people like to sift kief? All kief is.. is trichs. Pure THC pretty much.. without the plant material.


So again, where this so called "doctor" got his PHD.. is a mystery.. and I still would just LOVE to be able to debate this with him personally.. face to face.

Ugghh.. I mean, that's just common freaking sense man.

He clearly has no idea what he's talking about..

peace..

Well, here you go - this answers a couple of your questions.
Judging by his credentials he may know a bit about these things.
I'm not on either side of the fence on this one - just providing info.
GWN
NAIHC - North American Industrial Hemp Council
A Renewable Industrial Fiber & Oil Crop

Dr. Paul G. Mahlberg's Cannabis Research

NAIHC Board Member Dr. Paul G. Mahlberg is a Professor of Biology (plant biology) and Senior Fellow of the Institute of Molecular and Cellular Biology, Indiana University. He received his Ph.D. in Botany at the University of California, Berkeley and his MS and BS degrees in Botany at the University of Wisconsin, Madison. He has studied cannabis for over thirty years and has published over thirty articles on cannabis (Cannabis sativa), a tall annual dioecious plant group which includes both industrial hemp and marijuana. Wrote Laboratory Program in Plant Anatomy, and published two educational films. Served as a consulting editor to Academic Press in the preparation of ten monographs. Collaborated with Dr. Ivan Bocsa, Kompolt, Hungary, in a three-year USDA sponsored research study on hemp, and with Dr. Eun Soo Kim, Seoul, Korea, on organization and composition of glandular trichomes in cannabis and related plants. Served as a consultant to the United Nations Industrial Organization, Vienna, on industrial processing of raw opiates; to the University of Mississippi, School of Pharmacy, in its cannabis program; and to private companies in studies on secondary products of plants. Member of the board of directors of the Door County (Wisconsin) Land Trust which is dedicated to preservation of ecologically important land.

One of only two federal DEA permits to grow cannabis in the United States is held by Dr. Mahlberg. His research program began over thirty years ago and continues to the present, specializing in the ultra structure of the resin-producing gland and the biogenesis of its cannabinoids. With his post-doctoral fellows and graduate students, he has explored these and other topics important to the definition of cannabis as either a drug or a fiber and food plant.

Dr. Mahlberg's most recent cannabis article, co-authored with his student Dr. Karl Hillig, is "A Chemotaxonomic Analysis of Cannabinoid Variation in Cannabis (Cannabaceae)." It was published in American Journal of Botany 91:966-975, 2004. A list of Dr. Mahlberg's technical reports on cannabis appears below, with Internet links where available. His studies were directed to analyses of various cannabinoids and related secretory products, and their subcellular localization during plant development.

As a teenager, Paul Mahlberg's decision to become a botanist was stimulated by summers at Door County's Kangaroo Lake in Wisconsin. Now retired from the biology faculty at Indiana University in Bloomington, he continues to do research on secretion by plant cells - and he has maintained his long-time connection with Door County. The latest example of this connection is that Dr. Mahlberg and his wife Marilyn Waite Mahlberg have co-authored Wildflowers of Door County, Wisconsin's Unique Floral Preserve, "A field guide to the wildflowers that can be found in one of the most unique and beautiful places in America."

------------------------------------------------

Cannabaceae Publications of Paul G. Mahlberg

39. Hillig, K. W., and P. G. Mahlberg. 2004. Chemotaxonomic analysis of cannabinoid variation in Cannabis (Cannabaceae). Amer. Jour. Bot. 91: 966-975. Link to Abstract, full text available for a subscription fee.

38. Mahlberg, P. G., and E. S. Kim. 2003. Accumulation of cannabinoids in the secretory cavity of Cannabis. Jour. Industr. Hemp 9: 15-36.

37. Kim, E. S., and P. G. Mahlberg. 2003. Secretory vesicle formation in the secretory cavity of glandular trichomes of Cannabis (Cannabaceae). Mol. Cells 15: 387-395. Link to Abstract which includes link to free full text.

36. Mahlberg, P. G. 2003. Reintroduction of industrial hemp into American agriculture. Wisconsin Flora 4:3-6.

35. Kim, E. S., and P. G. Mahlberg. 2000. Early development of the secretory cavity of peltate glands in Humulus lupulus L. (Cannabaceae). Mol. Cells 10:487-492.

34. Kim, E. S., and P. G. Mahlberg. 1999. Immunochemical localization of tetrahydro cannabinol (THC) in chemically fixed glandular trichomes of Cannabis (Cannabaceae). Jour. Biol. Sci. 3: 215-219.

33. Hammond, C. T., and P. G. Mahlberg. 1999. Phloroglucinol as a natural phenolic constituent of Humulus lupulus (Cannabaceae). Amer. J. Bot. 87: 2105.

32. Kim, E. S., and P. G. Mahlberg. 1997. Cytochemical localization of cellulase activity associated with secretory cavity formation in glandular trichomes of Cannabis (Cannabaceae). Jour. Plant Biol. 40: 61-66.

31. Kim, E. S., and P. G. Mahlberg. 1997. Plastid development in glandular trichomes of Cannabis (Cannabaceae). Mol. Cells 7: 352-359.

30. Kim, E. S., and P. G. Mahlberg. 1997. Immunochemical localization of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) in cryofixed glandular trichomes of Cannabis (Cannabaceae). Amer. J. Bot. 83: 336-342. Link to Abstract, full text available for a subscription fee.

29. Kim, E. S., and P. G. Mahlberg. 1995. Glandular cuticle formation in Cannabis (Cannabaceae). Amer. J. Bot. 82: 1207-1214.

28. Hammond, C.T., and P. G. Mahlberg. 1994. Phloroglucinol glucoside as a natural constituent of Cannabis sativa. Phytochemistry 37: 755-756.

27. Mahlberg, P. G., and E. S. Kim. 1992. Secretory vesicle formation in glandular trichomes of Cannabis sativa L. (Cannabaceae). Amer. J. Bot. 79:166-173.

26. Mahlberg, P. G., and E. S. Kim. 1991. Cuticle development on glandular trichomes of Cannabis L. (Cannabaceae). Amer. J. Bot. 78:1113-1122.

25. Kim, E. S., and P. G. Mahlberg. 1991. Secretory cavity development of glandular trichome of Cannabis sativa L. (Cannabaceae). Amer. J. Bot. 78:142-151.

24. Hammond, C. T., and P. G. Mahlberg. 1990. Thin-layer chromatographic identification of phenol in the glandular secretory system of Cannabis sativa L. (Cannabaceae). Ind. Acad. Sci. 98:201-209.

23. Turner, J., and P. G. Mahlberg. 1988. In vivo incorporation of labeled precursors into cannabinoids in seedlings of Cannabis sativa L. (Cannabaceae) pp. 263-270. In, G. Chesher, P. Consroe and R. Musty (eds.), Marihuana. Australian Gov't. Publ.

22. Vogelmann, A., J. Turner, and P. G. Mahlberg. 1988. Cannabinoid composition in seedlings compared to adult plants of Cannabis sativa. J. Nat. Prod. 51:1075-1079.

21. Vogelmann, A., J. Turner, and P. G. Mahlberg. 1987. Cannabinoid occurrence in seedlings of Cannabis sativa L.: Quantitation in seedlings of known age and primary leaf length. Bot. Gaz. 148:468-477.

20. Turner, J., P. G. Mahlberg, V. Lanyon, and J. Pleszczynska. 1985. A temporal study of cannabinoid composition in continual clones of Cannabis sativa L. (Cannabaceae). Bot. Gaz. 146:32-38.

19. Vogelmann, A., J. Turner, and P. G. Mahlberg. 1984. Sequential appearance of cannabinoids during seedling development in Cannabis sativa L., pp. 18-23. In: Marihuana, D. Harvey (ed.). IRL Press, Oxford, UK.

18. Turner, J., and P. G. Mahlberg. 1984. Effects of sample treatment on chromatographic analysis of cannabinoids in Cannabis sativa L. (Cannabaceae). J. Chromatogr. 283:165-171.

17. Turner, J., and P. G. Mahlberg. 1984. Separation of acid and neutral cannabinoids in Cannabis sativa L. using HPLC, pp. 79-88. In: "Biology of Cannabinoids," W. Dewey, S. Agurell, and R. Willette (eds.). Academic Press, N.Y.

16. Mahlberg, P. G., J. Turner, J. Hemphill, and C. Hammond. 1984. Ultrastructure, development and composition of glandular trichomes of Cannabis, pp. 23-51. In: Biology and Chemistry of Plant Trichomes, E. Rodriguez, P. Healey, and I. Mehta (eds.). Pergamon Press, New York.

15. Mahlberg, P. G., and J. Hemphill. 1983. The effect of light quality on cannabinoid composition of Cannabis sativa L. (Cannabaceae). Bot. Gaz. 144:43-48.

14. Turner, J. and P. G. Mahlberg. 1982. Simple high-performance liquid chromatographic method for separating acidic and neutral cannabinoids in Cannabis sativa L. Jour. Chromatogr. 253:295-303.

13. Turner, J., J. Hemphill, and P. G. Mahlberg. 1982. Interrelationships of glandular trichomes and cannabinoid content. II. Developing leaves of Cannabis sativa L. (Cannabaceae). Bull. on Narc. 33:63-71.

12. Furr, M. and P. G. Mahlberg. 1981. Histochemical analyses of unbranched non articulated laticifers and capitate glandular hairs in Cannabis sativa L. (Cannabaceae). Jour. Nat. Prod. 41:153-159.

11. Lanyon, V., J. Turner, and P. G. Mahlberg. 1981. Quantitative analysis of cannabinoids in the secretory product from capitate-stalked glands of Cannabis sativa L. (Cannabaceae). Bot. Gaz. 142:316-319.

10. Turner, J., J. Hemphill, and P. G. Mahlberg. 1981. Interrelationships of glandular trichomes and cannabinoid content. I: Developing pistillate bracts of Cannabis sativa L. (Cannabaceae). Bull. on Narc. 33:59-69.

9. Hemphill, J., J. Turner, and P. G. Mahlberg. 1980. Cannabinoid content of individual plant organs from different geographical strains of Cannabis sativa L. (Cannabaceae). Jour. Nat. Prod. 43:112-122.

8. Turner, J., J. Hemphill, and P. G. Mahlberg. 1980. Trichomes and cannabinoid content in developing leaves and bracts of Cannabis sativa L. (Cannabaceae). Amer. J. Bot. 67:1397 1406.

7. Hammond, C. and P. G. Mahlberg. 1978. Ultrastructural development of capitate glandular hairs of Cannabis sativa L. (Cannabaceae). Amer. J. Bot. 65:140-151.

6. Turner, J., J. Hemphill, and P. G. Mahlberg. 1978. Studies on growth and cannabinoid composition of callus derived of Cannabis sativa. Lloydia 41:453-462.

5. Turner, J., J. Hemphill, and P. G. Mahlberg. 1978. Quantitative determination of cannabinoids in individual glandular trichomes of Cannabis sativa L. (Cannabaceae). Amer. J. Bot. 65:1103-1106.

4. Turner, J., J. Hemphill, and P. G. Mahlberg. 1978. Cannabinoid composition and gland distribution in clones of Cannabis sativa L. Bull. on Narc. 30:55-65.

3. Hammond, C. and P. G. Mahlberg. 1977. Morphogenesis of capitate glandular hairs of Cannabis sativa L. (Cannabaceae). Amer. J. Bot. 64:1023-1031.

2. Turner, J., J. Hemphill, and P. G. Mahlberg. 1977. Gland distribution and cannabinoid content in clones of Cannabis sativa. Amer. J. Bot. 64:687-693.

1. Hammond, C. and P. G. Mahlberg. 1973. Morphology for glandular hairs of Cannabis sativa L. from scanning electron microscopy. Amer. J. Bot. 60:524-528.

​

 

[cannabisguru]

I certainly wasn't looking for some 'excuse' to harvest early. I got all of that out of my system the first year or so of growing, buying anything that claimed to make it flower faster. I know none of that shit works, but you should see the facility that some guy named 'K' has. Sure looks like he'd know a thing or 2. He's got 2 Twister trim machines...that's $30,000 just in trimmers! Facility is unbeleivable.

K, I would like to say something if I may..

You clearly seem to be getting it confused. Just because this guy named "K" or 'R' or whatever his name his.. has all this beautiful and new expensive machinery doesn't mean shit. Some of the best growers out there.. use the basic shit. Such as myself.. I'm no expert.. and never have/will claim to be one. However, I know my shit at the same time.

But like I said, your getting it mixed up. Just because someone has all the fancy equipment.. doesn't mean jack shit bro. It's what he has upstairs.. knowledge wise. You can have all the fancy and new equipment in the world.. but that doesn't mean you know what your doing.

Just keeping it real.

peace.

 

[two2brains]

keep it simple.

Just let it go till you see first sight of amber then chop.

genetics will determine how slow or fast it will start to turn but all strains do eventually.

 

[fdd2blk]

if you chop it early your hash will be "blonde".

 

[randomseed]

I harvest like I pop popcorn.
When the bud growth stops "Poppin" then its done, I dont risk getting every kernal poped against a bag of burnt popcorn.
I only look at trichrome color when Im bored.
Most strains have a way of telling you when their done, it just takes some experience to see it.

 

[theexpress]

half amber half milky to me give the strongest buzz

 

[ianlfc1]

what if u need to cut it down one week early due to the stinking smell getting to much can anyone help?