Blue Dream 800W Induction Lights SOG

[adamic]

I just ordered 3 of these lights today for a 4 x 8 tent grow I'll be starting in a couple of weeks. Hindsight being 20/20 would you recommend a wider spacing to move more light down to the lower buds?

Other then a little ph burn (do you know what caused that? Was it the light?) these are some fine good looking fruit sir.

 

[solcielo]

Lights appear to be working very well. How tall are they at this final stage Sol? What is the density like?

Just a couple inches over 2' high from the top of the pots they sit in. As to density the couple nugs I've checked feel just as dense as I got with HPS but excuse me if I'm not in there rubbing all my trich's off fondling my bud trying to figure out how dense they are I'll be able to better show that when they're dried.

 

[solcielo]

Stay away for a week and look what I come home to. While beautiful my guess is the pictures don't do them justice. I can almost smell them from here.

I know it's still early but overall how would compare these lamps with your previous HID grow where I presume you used a combination of metal halide and hps? What I've been wondering is if light emitted from a continuous spectrum, such as the inda-gro, create a healthier plant from those that may endure stress from converting between UV and IR spectrums as is the traditional case with MH/HPS conversions.

Also early on you stated that there would be no AC is that still the case? Are you having to do any extra venting of the tent from heat generated by the lights?

Thanks for sharing all this Sol.

Pictures really don't do them justice, they are so frosty.... I did use a combination of MH/HPS before, MH for veg and HPS for bloom. Still don't have an AC in there but if I seal the room up with the tent going the room heats up to about 78 and the tent about 84. I like to vent it a little with an open window to the cool air outside and that keeps things high 70's in the tent mid 70's in the room usually. I did have the front door wide open as well as the side window (2 sides are backed up against walls) and had a blower fan going in but it seemed where the fan was blowing in air mites were starting to appear. So in an attempt to keep the lady bugs inside and prevent introducing more pests I turned off my blower and sealed up the front door and just have the side window open now for air exchange no blower fan. Just using the 3-mini clip on fans to keep air moving around in there and it seems fine if a bit warmer. Seems I'm in the low-mid 80's in the tent with this design and the room is a balmy 78 or so. Gets a little humid sealed up and I don't have a humidifier so I like to open the window for a little exchange every now and again. As to overall impressions you're going to have to go back a few posts on that one.

 

[solcielo]

I just ordered 3 of these lights today for a 4 x 8 tent grow I'll be starting in a couple of weeks. Hindsight being 20/20 would you recommend a wider spacing to move more light down to the lower buds?

Other then a little ph burn (do you know what caused that? Was it the light?) these are some fine good looking fruit sir.

Grats on the lights, I'm sure you'll enjoy them. In hindsight I would go with a smaller plant density like you said to allow more light to get to the lower buds if I were going to do another 25 day veg. However, I think if I were to employ a 3-6 day veg and some serious trimming (harvest only tops) I would probably increase my PPSF to 4 from 2.8, or do another 36 plants in a 6x6 setup in each 4x4 tray. Good luck finding that many clones of the same genetics unless you are dealing with professionals; I found it hard to find anyone with that many clones available and when I did find someone they lied to me and threw in a bunch of different genetics to make up the sale.... that was my last grow.

As to the pH burn, I'm not sure I see it. The one taller plant that looks like shit has been assaulted by mites a lot over the past 10 days and the rest of the plants show some nutrient burn on the tips of the leaves but that's how I like them, right on the edge of too much light and nutrients.

 

[jackfrostking]

awwwwwwwwwww awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww u shoulda taken out the mite plant and considered it a loss and if others are infected cut early. : 0 it was lookin so good. im sorry mate

 

[solcielo]

I'm not sure I follow. If I remove the mite plant the ones remaining that the SNS217 and ladybugs haven't got will just move over to another plant. Right now I have a concentrated base to attack them in and keep their population dented but you're recommending removing it and letting the remaining ones disperse and find another plant to destory. The struggling girl looks like crap but she's a magnet for the little fuckers. Infected makes it sound like my plants have aspergillis or candidia fungus' all over them. These are just spider mites that I've always had to battle in the last grow and this one. Honestly, with like 12 days to go before I chop everything down, it's really not that big of a deal just something I have to deal with.

 

[medicine21]

Since you're thinking about expanding plant numbers for SOG, I thought I would share my experience. In a 4x4' area I have tried 25, 30, 36 and 49 plants. So that's a 5x5, 6x5, 6x6 and 7x7 formation in a 4x4' area. The denser you go the more the plants will stretch. You also need to factor in the indica/sativa ratio of your strain for optimal results. So your mileage WILL vary depending on these factors but the optimal I found was a 6x5 setup for 30 Jack Herer plants, a 70-80% sativa dominant. With a 5 day veg from 1.5" clone, a 5x6 setup, a nice even canopy resulted 28-36" tall, which is what you should shoot for with SOG. So you will need to play with your veg period to hit those heights depending on your strain. Don't forget to cut bottom 1/3 of plant, W2 and W4 of flowering of course.

I think the ideal SOG setup for a 4x4' would be something like this:

X-X-X-X-X-X
-X-X-X-X-X-
X-X-X-X-X-X
-X-X-X-X-X-
X-X-X-X-X-X

...where X is a plant. Cover that with a 1000W HPS (or equivalent), dial it in, and you should hit 2lb.

 

[Bonzi Lighthouse]

This is pleasant surprise. It's like seeing your children off to college for the first time. Consider me subbed and let me know if there are ever any technical questions that I can assist with.

I'm interested in a light for a DR60 (24"x24") with a remote ballast. is that doable in a 400W?

 

[solcielo]

I'm interested in a light for a DR60 (24"x24") with a remote ballast. is that doable in a 400W?

I'm no salesman but it sounds reasonable and a promising setup. You'd have to talk to the people at inda-gro for the specifics though I just journal

 

[bibbles]

I'm interested in a light for a DR60 (24"x24") with a remote ballast. is that doable in a 400W?

Inda Grow 400w is 41" long, so I doubt it, but they have smaller round lights which would work I think...

 

[solcielo]

Inda Grow 400w is 41" long, so I doubt it, but they have smaller round lights which would work I think...

Oh yah I wasn't even thinking about the length of the light when you asked. I guess for that space maybe combine a couple of their smaller 100W or 200W that are round and maybe have a diameter of 1' or less would be ideal I think. If you really wanted to get crazy do like 4-100W's hanging down and some blue/white/red LED panels on the side and maybe even a custom 4-square design on top loaded with LED's that allow the 100W's to sit in the middle of each square.

 

[solcielo]

awwwwwwwwwww awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww u shoulda taken out the mite plant and considered it a loss and if others are infected cut early. : 0 it was lookin so good. im sorry mate

Today was that plants' last day in the garden and I have to say you were right. It was definitely breathing it's death rattle so I cut it down and trimmed and hung it up just to get some weight comparisons and maybe make hash out of it. Freshly cut and a first pass trim it weighed out to about 52g so I expect it to dry out to about 3/8oz or so.

Pretty sure I've kept the mite population dented but I'm noticing lots of young ones and eggs still in one side of my tent and can't really do much but just wipe them out every couple days. But I'm going to have to stop using the SNS217 soon so I'm thinking about accelerating my harvest time to early next week and combining some kind of clear-ex product to help flush faster. Just changed my water today and it was originally 49ppm when I poured it in and had gone all the way up to 750ppm with dissolved salts (normally I kept it around 1600-1900ppm running full nutrients). Should be a lot cleaner the next time I change it in a couple days.

Trichromes across most plants are about 5-10% amber heads which is close to where I like my bud as it seems to give a more clear and functional high. Pretty sure a harvest next Monday or Wednesday will put me right where I want regarding maturity and not going the full 2 weeks maybe I can avoid letting these little spider mites from getting out of hand.

Curiosity is piqued regarding the 3-day-dark-period and I think I may give it a try which will also allow me to seal up the remaining 1000 or so lady bugs I have currently refrigerated Plan to keep air moving around in the tent during the 3 day period with no lights or watering. I think all those hungry little predators should be able to keep the dented spider mite population under control till I chop everything down and with a couple days no water they should be starting to dry out nicely already.

 

[Bonzi Lighthouse]

We can remote the drivers but I first want to qualify this a bit.

While not part of our normal online offering since the existing driver cable passes through the driver housing and into the lamp housing for a minimum cable length. In large part this is due to the physical protection of the cable but another issue for keeping the driver near the lamp is that in high frequency (240 kHz) signals, capacitance and inductance are directly proportional to the frequency and length of cable. Unlike normal 60 hZ power cables, these higher frequency signals and overall lamp efficiency depend to a greater degree on the cable length, conductor size, configuration (twisted pair, coaxial, stranded vs solid core, conductor spacing and insulative material) all have a greater importance as the potential for IR losses increases. In other words cable geometry plays a larger part in these remote driver applications then in standard 60 Hz ballasted systems.

Now that being said; I have no problem extending, and have successfully upgraded a 6 ft double shielded, teflon coated cable that maintains efficiencies while remotely mounting the driver which is then connected via a Molex style connector to the lamp housing. It adds $90.00 to the cost of the fixture. Just make sure the reasons for remote mounting of the driver are understood beforehand. If it is being done as a way to further reduce temperatures inside a confined space then be aware that the lamp and the magnetic coupling are what make the driver housing get warm not the other way around.

I hope that answers your question.

Yes that was my assumption, that removing the driver would remove the heat. I have my 400w ballast remotely mounted, but the HPS lamp still puts out the majority of the heat, I guess the same is true for induction. The 400w HPS is good for the foot print of my cab but I still struggle with the heat, and with summer coming up I'm looking to reduce heat, also looking at the Philips 400w CMH.

 

[Bonzi Lighthouse]

If I had the space I'd really try the 400w, but there is no way I can squeeze 41" into a 24" space, and every time I look at my wife's closet I get the stink eye.

 

[zem]

using 2 400w induction over a 4x4 space is not the best way to test these lights, i mean you're using 800w so if you were using HPS 800w it will easily cover the same area. if 400w induction is better than even a 600 hps then you should try one 400w over 4x4 in order to test its efficiency. i'm sure that i could cover that area with 800w cfl's and get good results, that wouldn't make it better than HPS. don't get me wrong, i am very interested in induction lights, just want real proof that they're more efficient than HPS and this nice trial grow doesn't offer the proof. i have grown very nice grows with 2 400w HPS over 3x5. from your personal experience, do you think a single 400w induction could have covered that 4x4 area?

 

[chazbolin]

I currently have three 400's in a 10 x 6 area grow. The longer fixture will cover the canopy evenly and a single 400 can manage a 5 x 5 area. The advantage of tightening this layout up is that I have better canopy penetration from the other source, less shadows, and zero plant bending towards the light source with the cross blend from multiple sources. With the smaller fixture housings like that of an HID there is more angular distribution of the light since the housing does not cover as large of a surface area of the canopy.

It's going to come down to preference. You can see the 9 week cherry tomato plants that Evo grew from seed in the SD Hydro store out in Lakeside. That's a 2 x 4 tent with a single 400 in it. Go back a few pages and there's a video of that grow you can check out.

It's FRIDAY! I get to go play in the mountains this weekend!

 

[zem]

I currently have three 400's in a 10 x 6 area grow. The longer fixture will cover the canopy evenly and a single 400 can manage a 5 x 5 area. The advantage of tightening this layout up is that I have better canopy penetration from the other source, less shadows, and zero plant bending towards the light source with the cross blend from multiple sources.

With the smaller fixture housings like that of an HID there is going to be more of an angular distribution of the light since the housing does not cover as large of a surface area of the canopy.

It's going to come down to preference. You can see the 9 week cherry tomato plants that Evo grew from seed in the SD Hydro store out in Lakeside. That's a 2 x 4 tent with a single 400 in it. Go back a few pages and there's a video of that grow you can check out.

It's FRIDAY!

when i say "cover a 4x4 area" i mean it can flower this area as good as an HPS would and give me as good and big buds. so when you said it can cover a 5x5, would it flower this area canopy effectively? cuz the thread starter only tried 2 400w over a 4x4, thats no breakthorugh

 

[chazbolin]

Put a single 400 up in a 4 x 4 tent and you won't use an MH/HPS combo again. I don't know if that can be considered a breakthrough but the quality and yields (avg 300 g/m) out of a single fixture make for a happy chaz.

It's off to work we go....later

 

[solcielo]

using 2 400w induction over a 4x4 space is not the best way to test these lights, i mean you're using 800w so if you were using HPS 800w it will easily cover the same area. if 400w induction is better than even a 600 hps then you should try one 400w over 4x4 in order to test its efficiency. i'm sure that i could cover that area with 800w cfl's and get good results, that wouldn't make it better than HPS. don't get me wrong, i am very interested in induction lights, just want real proof that they're more efficient than HPS and this nice trial grow doesn't offer the proof. i have grown very nice grows with 2 400w HPS over 3x5. from your personal experience, do you think a single 400w induction could have covered that 4x4 area?

Yes.

And while I'm here to share my results I'm not here to prove anything to anyone aside from those on the fence about the technology and I only doing this for myself (i'm not a vendor and I'm my own patient supplying my own meds). While I think I have a somewhat comparable setup to HID I never messed with 400W HPS. 1000W HPS in a 4x4 was overkill on lights too and that's just the way I enjoyed growing with HPS my previous grow so it seemed logical to replace my 1-1000W HPS with 2-400W induction. I never was trying to go for 1g/W and never presented this as a good setup to directly compare to your 2-400W HPS in any way; I'm also not trying to sell you anything.

If I wanted the "best way to test these lights" I would have a whole room dedicated to tent HPS grows with different wattages and another room full of tents with different combinations and wattages of induction lamps. If I wanted the "best way to test these lights" I would have set every grow up in the exact same fashion with the exact same strains. However, I'm not a salesman and I remind you I'm just here to share the results and possibly shut up some naysayers while I do it. If you compare to my last grow there are tons of differences that have made a difference in yield and plant growth such as using individual pots for SOG instead of just rockwool blocks laid out as well as a more educated approach with regards to this strain and nutrient needs.

You might want to harass me about these things too and make impressions on the lights based on those factors while you're at it. However, it won't really affect anything and I could care less whether you are sold on the technology as I'm not a salesman and have no stake in this game aside from curiosity and my personal buds.

And when you say "and the threadstarter ONLY tried 2-400W over a 4x4, that's no breakthrough" please realize I came down with leukemia in 2009 and started my first grow in late 2010 as a means to save some money on what I spending on meds. I documented my first grow with HPS and found these lights and decided to give them a try in order to get rid of my AC and not worry about heat problems while reducing my energy bill each month so I could pay for insurance premiums and prescriptions easier. Not to convince you to buy lights or change out your HPS setup.

 

[D.Gotti]

......to get rid of my AC and not worry about heat problems while reducing my energy bill each month.......

I hear you loud and clear. Its an efficiency decision, nothing more. Not everyone realizes what it costs to run an air conditioner constantly.

You must have been using at least 2000w with the hps and a/c. Now your using about half i would guess. Thats a huge savings!

This is a thread that should be read from the beginning to understand this. Some people are comparing prius' to chevelles here.