600W Dwc Discrete Cabinet Scrog - 2nd Run

[Jozikins]

Good demonstration. Not a bad idea for LST either. I'll be using this one. +Rep.

Oh, and 10.5 oz of dry weight after your first grow in hydro is fantastic, especially with just one lamp. We all want the all mighty 1w per gram weigh out, but honestly, that shit isn't going to happen. Some people here are fucking brilliant and can do that... not me. I think myself to be one clever cat, but that is a little outside my budget in equipment, and not beyond my reasoning, but one hell of a fucking task to achieve.

 

[phenob]

one gram per watt eh? good. now the target is no longer moving. thank you! my stick technique is lacking a little bit now that the limbs are no longer above the net pots. longer stick, at an angle, sure, but I'll figure something better. Thinking small holes in the top of the res, enough to anchor a skewer. Just a poke, maybe a dab of silicone in there to both seal it and give the skewer something to poke into. we'll see. working fine for now. once branches are longer they are usually pretty easy to train anyway.

away for a few days, ph locked dead and fucking right on. or just about so anyway. 5.7 is just fine by me.
ppm still right where I want it, around 1500. roots all around now, water level beginning to drop in earnest now.

add 1 gallon tap (should be RO this time but .. eh .. i wont tell if you wont). Chilled in freezer for about an hour and a half. Not frozen, not really all that cold, but it was enough to drop temp by 1.5 degrees.
add 150ml VermiT - using this to replace the mother earths whatever the hell in the AN nutrient lineup. We are now accounting for everything in the AN lineup except the Grandma Engys stuff.
add 8ml companion

Screen is about full. Flowering begins within the next day or two or three at the most. looking more for root and stem development than a full screen at this point. we've saved a ton of time filling the screen by using 6 plants, but I bet we are compromising the quality or yield. Root and stem systems will be 2 or 3 weeks behind what we had before. Let's see what effect this has.

Growth is sick, far more explosive than last time. Zero signs of trouble anywhere save for the one odd, old fan leaf that each plant seems to like to chew on it's own. All stems green, leaves all beautifully deep green with no discolorations, no curling tips, just pure happiness. Have been worried about running so hot but so far no complaints from the girls. Really need to get this handled before week 2 or 3 of flowering. and weren't we supposed to be adding CO2?

bitch better have my money.

ph 5.7, 1450 ppm, 68.3f res
room 75, chamber 80f
chamber humid @ 30%

 

[phenob]

and hey just a quick blast of rollitup good vibration energy or whatever anyone wants to call if for Northern Japan. Hell, even the south will need it if that nuke plant keeps going badly, which it seems to be.

if we all had stoner super powers we could fly over and blast that shit with our mega mutant bongwater. Barring that, here's to the best. Godspeed to those risking their lives while I make stupid jokes. here's to you all.

 

[Jozikins]

I love hearing good news from the garden. Really makes me wish I wasn't waiting until 6pm for my lights to turn on, I want to see my beautiful girls!

So your temps are perfect if you plan on adding co2, 80-85 is just dandy, if not, more air cooling or a/c will be needed.

Roll it up pisses me off!

I write up a full chapter of golden information, and somehow the cursor in the text bar times out in 3 seconds, and when I pressed backspace, that was Firefox's cue to send me back 3 or 4 pages and delete everything I had just typed!! Urghhh. Well unfortunately I won't be typing all that out again, fuck that. Rollitup will play another prank on me before I try and copy it.

....So two bong rips later and I feel a lot better about all of that just happening. Haha.

Anyways, highly recommend VermiT. Keep your temps steady like that, below 68 is awesome! VermiT will keep a week if kept in the fridge, I don't know how long at 68, but the people at the VermiCrop company are extremely friendly and helpful. I urge you to give them a call. Also, do not correct pH after adding VermiT, do it before. The tea will slowly and automatically adjust pH without killing beneficial microbes and bacteria that you just payed for. If you have to do it later, do so, but VermiT is pretty good at knowing what your plant needs and when.

Hopefully your plants are rapid eaters by now, that VermiT should be gone in two days, it is so ready to uptake. Also, go ahead and turn down your air pump. Keep it just low enough for the plants to breath, with your cool temps they do it pretty well without bubbles at all. The reason is that all the bubbling and disruption in the water will keep your VermiT from colonizing. It will also cut the numbers of colonies it came with, and you shelled out 10 bucks for that bag, so you want it all!

If the VermiT adjusted your pH down to 5.7, that is perfect, the Tea just knows what is right. If not, consider ajusting it up to 5.9 when the tea is gone. It should bring you up there by itself. The reason being is that 5.7 is stellar for veg, and still great for flower, but 5.9 gives you so much more phosphorus, potassium, calcium, and magnesium. And those are very important for flower formation or to jump start it.

Honestly though, since it is such early flower, I wouldn't worry too much. Growing is supposed to be fun.

 

[phenob]

i wonder then, should i spend the money on a CO2 setup first, or AC the room? It's about the same expense, and I already have the EVC-1 to manage the CO2. Well maybe not manage, but at least turn it off when the vent is on or lights are off.

83 in the chamber now as I check on it mid-afternoon. 78 in the room.

 

[phenob]

yeah good call man. PH is 5.8 today, the VermiT has brought it up a little bit. Probably higher PH tap water helped too, but the VermitT theory is far cooler. Nevermind the steelyard.

When you talk about 5.9, is this a coco number? does it matter? It seems every time I think I've got the ph where it should be, I find out later that it should be like +.2 if growing in pure coco. Example, I was at 5.6 for most of the last cycle per the AN calculator. After talking to an AN tech late in flower, he clues me in that the ph should be 5.8 in coco. I figure 5.9 is about right. That's where this sauce has wanted to be, pre-VermiT but with all the other onslaught of biologicals being used this time. I adjusted it manually down to 5.7 expecting it to rise back up, but it stabilized instead, so that's where it's been. There hasn't been a single drop of ph adjustment added to the sauce in what .. 5 days?

Rethought about it and it will have to be AC first. CO2 won't help me with 83f temps during dark hours, as it won't even be on. Got to get dark temps down, which means we need to deal with the air mass in the room. No other way around it.

also good info on the bubblers. I am probably already over-bubbling the sauce with 8x 4" airstones, one directly under each pot. Will turn them down a bit. This also reveals a flaw in my res design. I should have water just cycling through a pump. Turning bubblers down, or their performance degrading over time, means less circulation in the res, especially once there are large root masses in the drink.

On this, one thing I also noticed last cycle, the roots of all plants took over the empty space in the res, as expected, EXCEPT directly over the bubbler where there was no plant growing. The roots avoided this area completely, grew a circle right around it. Hrm ..

 

[phenob]

and just to be clear, the temp equation for the main chamber is:

dark - room temp +4
light - room temp +7

Simple, and this has held true both during the first cycle and currently.

I need to go back and check the data from last cycle's flowering to see if the HPS bulb also holds to this. I think it may be like a degree cooler.

 

[Jozikins]

Didn't even think about dark temps... you clever bastard you. That is why the guy's at the local hydro store have such bad heat stress on their buds, even with co2. Haha, now I get to tell them that and then I get to look like the smart guy! Haha. The roots growing around the airstones is pretty typical. I think it's the bubbles coming out of it prevents it.

VermiCrop told me it really is the tea that is adjusting the pH. 5 minutes of conversation with my friend who has taken several classes in Organic Chemistry and I understood why. I will sound like an idiot trying to explain why, but maybe I can get him to sign up on here and spill some facts. I know I would love a more factual understanding of all this, I love sounding like a genius! haha.

Tips for tap and organics! Organics do pretty decent with tap, but there is chlorine in there, enough to taste it. Chlorine is put in the water to kill bacteria, mircrobes, brain-eating amoebas, etc, so it is logical to assume it is killing your organic life. You can bring it to a lab for examination, but I highly highly recommend using r/o with organics only. Or you can stop by any grocery store or convenience mart and pick up a few gallons of distilled water. I need a new R/O filter (or 3) but am lazy and have not done it yet, so for the past month I've just been buying water. When nosy clerks ask why I tell them "I need to top off the batteries in the golf cart" if they ask why you do it every week "They are old batteries..." and this is actually a very good excuse. Batteries need to be filled with only distilled water, and golf carts use a LOT of car batteries.

My favorite response is "I was on my way home and my boss asked me to pick up 12 gallons of water, when I asked him, 'why do I need 12 gallons of water?' He said not to ask stupid questions." and they smile, and then as you walk away they realize you just called them stupid, and they are pissed. LOL, nosy jerks.

 

[BluBerry]

+ Rep.. Looks good! Kinda like my setup in a way. I do have a couple suggestions. Bigger holes in your screen. 2-3 inch is probably better than small holes once the buds fill out and while training them thru the holes. Also you mention your rez water was reaching 70, that is fine as long as it doesn't go over 75. 65-70 is preferrable. Anything over 75 promotes algae growth and under 60 slows growth of plants. Mine stays around 67. I try to keep cab around 75-80, and under 85. They will grow in 95 degrees but they slow, esp if the humidity and co2 is low. I am using AN Sensi Grow/Bloom as well with AN pH down as well. I don't even own the pH up. I add water to raise the pH so I'm never chasing the pH with up/down. I read somewhere that during veg to run the pH at 5.8 but during flower with AN run the pH at 5.6. I'm subbed and ready to see the magic happen.

 

[phenob]

that's good biologicals knowledge right there. i've been pretty bad about not letting the tap water air out at all either, not helping i'm sure. So, although the method of combining RO and tap at 3:1 is doing pretty well to buffer ph changes this time, we need to find a better way so the chlorine doesn't affect the microscopic hordes. i will start using RO with cal/mag to 100ppm as a base.

and fuck going to the store and buying gallon by gallon. i use a couple 5 gallon jugs at the glacier machine. $1 - $1.50 for 5 gallons of RO and nobody is the wiser, save for that wierdo who seems to be at the redbox machine every single night. It's also helped to get to know the different glacier machines around the area. I use two different locations as one dispenses much warmer water than the other. Can come in handy adjusting seasonal res temps. Hoping the cool water source stays cool in the summer.

 

[phenob]

hey Bluberry thanks. I love my 1" screen. I had doubts but it worked out great the first time. Zero problems training things and it supported about as well as anything could. I especially like the 1" screen for its ability to overgrow. With lots of air floor you can fill it up beyond most reasonable expecations and it produces like crazy.

also, i was at 5.6 with these AN nutrients on my last run and, late in flower, i had a conversation with an AN tech who said specifically to raise ph up to 5.8 when using sensi combos in pure coco, which I am.

res temp will not go over 69.8 on my watch. this will be alot easier once the drink is dropping more rapidly. refilling, as above, with water from the cool glacier machine will keep temps around 66 regardless of chamber temp. the canopy is pretty much filled in now too so that helps.

once i have a real air temp solution in place (AC) the chamber temp should be steady at 78 tops.
hate that i need to spend 10amps on an AC.

 

[phenob]

one thing about the 1" screen. it's not for the grower who is only checking plants every few days, it's for the madly obsessive micro manager. also really depends on the rest of your setup and how easily you can get around to the back and the undergrowth. i manage mine almost exclusively with a large chopstick or two, poking and pulling around the screen. it can be a bitch every now and then but all in all, it's easy if you can attend to it daily.

 

[Jozikins]

Yeah I need a few of those jugs. The problem is that drinking water has fluoride in it and I have no idea if that has an effect or not, so for that reason I stick to r/o or distilled. Although I am sure it's a lot better than tap! 5.8 - 5.9 is the best ph for coco. Although you are doing a combo so possibly 5.8 is your golden number for late flower rather than 5.9, always listen to the tech, they are right more than we are. Although I have talked to some idiots before. I'm glad to hear you are paying very close attention to your scrog, if you ever feel like switching your 1x1 out for some 1x2 I have some of same type as yours. So it will be less of a bitch, less of the time.

 

[phenob]

the Glacier brand machines are dispensing RO water, so you can get it there by the jug. Most of the other brand water machine dispense filtered or distilled. It checks out just as I would expect, ppm < 002.

it's pretty funny though when i roll up and hit two machines for 5 minutes. fucking hate wal mart but it's the only place i've been able to find empty 5gal jugs for any sort of reasonable price ($7 each). i couldnt find any of those little water stores that i could even remotely communicate with, which was also pretty funny in hindsight.

lights going off at 6am and will not be back on for 24 hours. 12/12 from there on out. planning on keeping the MH bulb in for the first week then switch to HPS. will change the sauce to the flowering recipe at some point in the first 10 days.

haven't calibrated the ppmeter for over a week so it's certainly off. everything looking fantastic though so aaah well.

ph 5.8, 1470 ppm, 68f res
room 74, chamber 80
humid @ 30%

 

[BluBerry]

one thing about the 1" screen. it's not for the grower who is only checking plants every few days, it's for the madly obsessive micro manager. also really depends on the rest of your setup and how easily you can get around to the back and the undergrowth. i manage mine almost exclusively with a large chopstick or two, poking and pulling around the screen. it can be a bitch every now and then but all in all, it's easy if you can attend to it daily.

Whatever works for you. I check mine everyday about 3 times a day and am constantly moving the stems around to other holes. I would prob go crazy messing with those little holes and tear the plants to pieces in and out of them. If its good for you then go for it. Was just a suggestion.

 

[phenob]

heh and I would go crazy on a 2" for lack of little holes to micro fuck with. Still want to mod a knitting needle to make a really perfect scrog pulling tool.

quick note, forgot to state that i've been thinning out the undergrowth to about 2 or 3 inches below the screen. Last run I left most of the little stuff down there just to see. I've seen, and even though blue dream makes very productive underbits that are covered in frost and make great hash, i'm going to clear all that stuff out this time to see if we can't get more growth on the main stalks.

the entire canopy was completely tucked under the screen before the 12/12 switch, with limbs and leaves and all that sorted and trained as close as possible to where i want things to flower. still need to use the flower stretch to fill the back and front right of the screen. Probably about 30% more coverage to go before I'm happy enough to let things start coming up. Really trying hard for a nice even fill, no lopsided grow this time.

and hey, as i type, there's ph 5.9 now.
jozikins verimT knowledge so powa!

 

[phenob]

BAH so much for 24 hours of darkness to kick off flowering. I botched the timer programming and light came on after 12 hours dark.
We'll make up for it next cycle with 48 hours dark to start.

ph and ppm still rock steady while sauce level is dropping maybe .. 1/2 gallon a day at this point?

It is very easy to see the difference with all the new biologicals doing their thing to the root zone. Roots this time are at least twice as "branchier", growing out as a long root then busting out fishbone looking offshoots. looks awesome.

 

[phenob]

last night topped off with 1 gallon of chilled RO + 20ml cal/mag + 150ml VermiT
PH this morning shot up to 6.3, ppm still nailed at 1450.

 

[Jozikins]

The tea works in mysterious ways, sometimes in the wrong ways. If it goes above 6.3, go ahead and adjust it.

 

[phenob]

5ml of ph down had about twice the effect that it usually has. analysis, schlock? it is definitely the tea adjusting the ph. 5.6 is a little further down than i was aiming for, just gonna let it be unless i decide to throw a final splash of veg nutrients into the sauce. I have not added any additional sensi since this res was first filled.
it does indeed work in mysterious ways.

cant find my damn phone data cable, pics when i do. looking great. going to be a few days ahead of schedule. we'll be ready to flush and fill with flowering sauce this weekend. the screen will be filled proper in 72 hours at the most.

ph 5.6, 1480 ppm, 67.5 res
room 71, chamber 78
humid @ 30%