Founding Fathers Revisited

[medicineman]

The founding fathers that most libertarians so rave about were in most part, wealthy men, Businessmen and lawyers mostly, a few large farmers and landowners, but very few regular citizens with regular jobs or as I see it, just plain old Americans. While most people in the country struggled just to survive, living hand to mouth, these wealthy scoundrels set about creating a society geared towards the wealthy.
This attitude has carried over to the present time, with the people in charge still fucking over the poor and middle classs for their own ends. The vote we so proudly set as the standard of freedom has been usurped by the upper classes with money being the real motivator for change. This was clearly seen in the Gore VS Bush debacle, where the right wing of the court, (Supreme Court) gave the election to the Billionaires son.
With the "citizens United" decision, we have further sold the country to the top 2-4%. With unlimited funding by the corporations, the right wing attack on unions, and the general greediness of the politicians, the circle is completed. The founding fathers would be proud. Their ancestors have turned this country into a corporatochracy.
Be prepared for great new things to come, legal slavery, childhood slavery, the end of the minimum wage, no union representation for anyone, no blacks voting, or womens rights, basically the same as it was in 1776. I'm glad I have but few years left on the planet, but feel real bad for my progeny. They will never be able to experience the kind of life I did. The good old days have ended and I feel myself fortunate to have experienced the best of times.
Just for giggles I picked 5 random founders and their occupations:
1. W.S. Johnson-wealthy lawyer
2. Roger Sherman-Wealthy Judge and businessman
3. Oliver Ellsworth-wealthy lawyer
4. George Read- wealthy lawyer
5. William Patterson-wealthy lawyer.
Seems like there were no Blacksmiths or leather crafters, no regular farmers or just plain Joes.
Does anyone really think these individuals didn't have their own best interests invested in the founding of America?

 

[beardo]

I like Ben Franklin he was cool, drunk, fighting and banging broads. Jefferson kicked ass and so did Washington

 

[Ernst]

Nice thread.

 

[beardo]

Alexander Hamilton was terrible and contributed to the mess were in now- Henry Ford should have been president so shouldn't have Robert Kennedy our country would have been better off

 

[Ernst]

I'm curious Beardo. What form of Government do you advocate?

I agree Medicineman that we didn't have a democratic group then because of private wealth interests and we do not have one today ( New rules that money is free speech ) So the 2012 election cycle is looking to be a 12 Billion dollar event.
There is no doubt in my mind that it's a game of private wealth now and moving fast towards plutocracy and away from democracy.

 

[beardo]

Isolationist, Separatist , Nationalist with socialized national natural resources and restrictions on any foreign ownership.

 

[bobbypyn]

This country was founded as a masonic "Fuck You" to the english monarchy, which I applaud, but that doesn't change the fact that freemasonry is a luciferian organization. the working class has been successfully enslaved by these people who would see themselves as our masters (why do you think the pyramid on the dollar is unfinished? just keep on stackin em, boys!) This country was founded on genocide and dishonour towards the land's rightful inhabitants (my wife is full-blood Eastern Band Cherokee; I know what I'm talking about here. I pay the price for every whiteman's lie ever told, in the scorn i see in the faces of her people when they see us together. I know how Jack Johnson felt!) Most people don't know that the settlement at Jamestown was run as a socialist commune. that's right folks; the good ol U.S. of A. was the fruit of communism. No jamestown= no colonies; no colonies= no Revolutionary War.

 

[bobbypyn]

Isolationist, Separatist , Nationalist with socialized national natural resources and restrictions on any foreign ownership.

hmmmm nationalism & socialism.. that's got a good ring to it! National Socialist! that sounds great!

oh what...? been done already? oh thats too bad.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Sigh...Same old socialist mantra. Wealth=Bad. Take money from the wealthy and redistribute it to those that have no idea on how to make it and even less on how to keep it=Good
It really is getting old guy.

 

[Ernst]

Carl, If the way things are is the right path why do we still have problems.

How do you see the founding Fathers?

 

[beardo]

Sigh...Same old socialist mantra. Wealth=Bad. Take money from the wealthy and redistribute it to those that have no idea on how to make it and even less on how to keep it=Good
It really is getting old guy.

Not really I just want to get rid of forigners and stop doing buisness with them so we can have jobs and wealth in this country for the people

 

[Ernst]

As I understand it Wealth is Global but Poverty is national.

I'd vote for revitalizing our manufacturing sector and provide good pay and jobs for all.

 

[Hudsonvalley82]

I kinda think that successful lawyers usually have a great working knowledge about the rule of law and therefore offer some good insight on how to design laws. I find it surprising that someone is surprised that this government was built by powerful well to do people that were selected as congressional delegates. This constitution wasn't written by schleps. Most governments (if not all governments) are designed by the very powerful. As they tend to have the power, influence and money to throw around on national scales.

You know why blacksmiths didn't found the nation? Cuz if they stopped hammering metal their family went broke.
You know why farmers didn't found the nation? Cuz their crops would die (unless they had slaves)
You know why generally wealthy and powerful people founded the nation? Cuz they traveled, networked, dealt with governing bodies, financed the interim government, financed the armies, used foreign influence to keep the nation afloat, owned massive amounts of land, owned businesses, so on and so forth.

Thats the way life is. Some people have influence that ends at a 10 foot radius. Some people have influence that has no limits. Those people obviously tend to have a crafting hand in far more decisions than those without.

 

[Ernst]

There are good things and there are bad things.

It's the bad things that I wish would be in decline.

 

[undertheice]

ah yes, more class warfare from the depths of ignorance. you know why this country was designed by wealthy men? because it is the rich and powerful that build nations, it is up to the rest of us to make it work. if a nation's founders are well intentioned, what they create affords everyone the liberty necessary to live their lives as they please. this country was founded with just such and end in mind. it wasn't designed to allow the majority to ride roughshod over the rights of the few. the quasi-anarchy of true democracy demands that the citizenry be not only educated, but enlightened as well. do you really see the masses as enlightened? it took us over a hundred years to realize that one person owning another was something we should avoid. what do you think would have been the result of allowing the ignorant masses to decide how our entire society should be operated?

 

[Ernst]

We think that economic injustice isn't warfare and cry foul when it's suggested that a better deal for the majority of the planet is needed.

So global starvation is good because??

It protects private wealth?

It's not that those living now have to pay the price it's the future people.
I tell ya right now either multi-millions of people have to die or the distribution of resources has to change. It's just a matter of time.

 

[puffntuff]

The reason our forefathers were wealthy were because they knew how to read and right. I still see people today that can't do that and no the aren't slow just lazy. If you redistribute the wealth within 20 yrs it would be right back where it is today. People are generally nieve. Our nation is based on lying and scheming nothing has changed. It's time to do the right thing and make education our number 1 priority. Also if it's not made here it's not sold here pretty simple concept. Kick big bus out of Washington and we'd be better instantaneously.

 

[Ernst]

Our Founding Fathers were poor until they took the wealth away from those that had it. They were illegal aliens.

Sort of We stole it fair and square but you can't!

 

[newatit2010]

Well if not for the fore fathers we would be sending our taxes over seas. And didn't they come here with money or Maybe the bastards earned it? I want to know what people think redisburtion will do? To me they will get their 50 dollars after it is redisturbed and they are expecting on millions(dumb shits). Then we have a country that nobody has the money to run a bussiness so no jobs. And where do they think their next 50 dollar check comes from then???

 

[medicineman]

Well if not for the fore fathers we would be sending our taxes over seas. And didn't they come here with money or Maybe the bastards earned it? I want to know what people think redisburtion will do? To me they will get their 50 dollars after it is redisturbed and they are expecting on millions(dumb shits). Then we have a country that nobody has the money to run a bussiness so no jobs. And where do they think their next 50 dollar check comes from then???

Overseas or locally, it's still the big dogs that end up with our taxes. Maybe if we'd of kept the monarchy, (Not my choice) we'd have medicare for all, a much more inclusive medical system then the giveaway to the corporate insurance companies we have now.
It was the unions that built the middle class and the elites are hell bent on dismanteling them. That one action by itself should be a war cry to the middle class. If the middle class doesn't stand up to the right wingers on this position, they can kiss their middle class jobs goodby. What we are seeing by the right wing and tea party is an assault on workers and their way of life. It is time for this nonesense to be recognized and stopped. It took a lot of bloodshed by union organizers and workers desiring a better way of life to get the current middle class. My question is this: Will they stand by and watch it dismanteled? If Wisconson is any sign of things to come, I believe the people will survive with their unions intact. Those republicans that voted this carnage into law will be recalled or impeached, mark my words. The voters will not forget. Their unemployment will run out about election time next year, good luck repukes, good luck.