Leaf Spotting 4.5 Weeks Into Flowering
- Thread starter Shwagbag
- Start date
Green Shark
Active Member
Yeah I think sulfur def is quite rare. But I feel like you do about the pH whatever you put in you should just about get out. When you flushed how much did you flush with. Also, what I have been seeing with my grows is the older fan leaves turn yellow and fall off soon after flowering but not the whole plant turning yellow. I would flush with 5 to 6 times the amount the pot would hold to get a complete flush of the salts left from fertilizing. Maybe some sort of lockout or is your pots to small for the root system.
curious old fart
Well-Known Member
Probably a combination of iron and magnesium deficiency.
cof
cof
realnyjuggalo23
Active Member
I have an issue I swear is related to whut ever is goning on with ur plant, may I tag along???????
realnyjuggalo23
Active Member
i did like an hr ago...sorry. i was just gonna follow and not post till I saw u pix and recignized the illness
Shwagbag
Well-Known Member
Just transplanted from 8" pot to 3 gallon 3 weeks ago, not exceeding capacity yet.
Y'know, I just checked my herb.iq and it turns out I missed a feeding of cal mag. Going give them a full strength dose after the soil dries a bit. Thanks for the suggestion.Probably a combination of iron and magnesium deficiency.
cof
SwampGrower69
Well-Known Member
I've had symptoms like this with plants before. I had a bunch of yellowing and and just couldnt keep my plants green in flowering. And all my flowering ferts had a decent amount of nitrogen. To fix it i started to give my plants more nitrogen during their growth by using grinded up coffee grounds and blood meal. Seems to work great, i keep a consistent dark green but not too dark and noooo more damn lime green color to my plants and wondering WTF is wrong! I still feed them the same amount of flowering ferts i did before too. And i always give them a few doses of cal/mag as well. Hope this helps! Swamp...
ValleGrown
Well-Known Member
If the necrosis persists I would say it's salts build up. Or your ph just locked everything important out. Make sure you water and feed at different times.
ValleGrown
Well-Known Member
Feed every other watering
Jozikins
Well-Known Member
Okay dude, I have a diagnosis: Fox Farm nutrients are 100% Pure Garbage! While they grow some mean tomatoes, and award winning roses, champion cannabis plants they do not make.
Next problem, and probably a bigger problem, pH. You should always call up your fertilizer company and ask questions about the pH for their product. The FFOF is a soiless mix with solid fertilizers added! That means you want a constant pH of 5.9-6.3. Throw that fucking feeding chart in the garbage. I remember when I tried using the line up with that chart and everything went to shit, I think whoever made that chart was fucking drunk!
The reason you got the best results your first round is because you didn't use the Fox Farm, I swear to god they are the problem, I am the Official Fox Farm Hater here on RIU. I have used their product, and even giving them the benefit of the doubt, tried several grows with them, even using them on another gardener's plants, which failed, while I ROCKED OUT with Flora Nova. Since then I've tried other fertilizers like TechnaFlora, and my new favorite, House & Garden (glory!!) and they all put Fox Farm to pathetic shame. It is a half-assed nutrient line up that promises a lot and advertises heavily to the new grower market, and attracts our attention with vibrant packaging, which we pay extra for, btw.
Another problem was transplanting the day of flower, that is a horticulture taboo, and a jinx in your garden. Always give them at least 1-2 weeks after transplant before switching the photoperiod.
It sucks you added dolomite lime, now you will be constantly chasing the pH down, unless you can get it to chill at 6.3. You can always call the Fox Farm hotline for advise, sometimes they are sober enough to give it to you. The soil is good, the flower booster trio pack is good, the "organic" (LOL!!) liquid fertilizer can suck my balls! FFOF can cause problems and I have gotten bugs out of it, but I think Happy Frog is the greatest thing they have ever done for the growing community, it provides a excellent variety of microscopic life that makes me and my plants happy.
Those few pictures of your plants are beautiful btw, I can't believe that is under a 600w, it looks great though. Try getting them closer together, direct light hitting the floor is like throwing perfectly good food in the garbage, just a terrible waste.
Dude, you have too good of a set up and are too smart to be stuck with Fox Farm, try and get a donation from a local dispensary to raise the funds for a new fertilizer line up. House & Garden dude, you will never regret it.
Next problem, and probably a bigger problem, pH. You should always call up your fertilizer company and ask questions about the pH for their product. The FFOF is a soiless mix with solid fertilizers added! That means you want a constant pH of 5.9-6.3. Throw that fucking feeding chart in the garbage. I remember when I tried using the line up with that chart and everything went to shit, I think whoever made that chart was fucking drunk!
The reason you got the best results your first round is because you didn't use the Fox Farm, I swear to god they are the problem, I am the Official Fox Farm Hater here on RIU. I have used their product, and even giving them the benefit of the doubt, tried several grows with them, even using them on another gardener's plants, which failed, while I ROCKED OUT with Flora Nova. Since then I've tried other fertilizers like TechnaFlora, and my new favorite, House & Garden (glory!!) and they all put Fox Farm to pathetic shame. It is a half-assed nutrient line up that promises a lot and advertises heavily to the new grower market, and attracts our attention with vibrant packaging, which we pay extra for, btw.
Another problem was transplanting the day of flower, that is a horticulture taboo, and a jinx in your garden. Always give them at least 1-2 weeks after transplant before switching the photoperiod.
It sucks you added dolomite lime, now you will be constantly chasing the pH down, unless you can get it to chill at 6.3. You can always call the Fox Farm hotline for advise, sometimes they are sober enough to give it to you. The soil is good, the flower booster trio pack is good, the "organic" (LOL!!) liquid fertilizer can suck my balls! FFOF can cause problems and I have gotten bugs out of it, but I think Happy Frog is the greatest thing they have ever done for the growing community, it provides a excellent variety of microscopic life that makes me and my plants happy.
Those few pictures of your plants are beautiful btw, I can't believe that is under a 600w, it looks great though. Try getting them closer together, direct light hitting the floor is like throwing perfectly good food in the garbage, just a terrible waste.
Dude, you have too good of a set up and are too smart to be stuck with Fox Farm, try and get a donation from a local dispensary to raise the funds for a new fertilizer line up. House & Garden dude, you will never regret it.
Snow Crash
Well-Known Member
Why are there so many people on here that tout House and Garden and yet so few journals featuring them?
Fox Farms is not crap. They are made of the same salts as other systems but in different element ratios. If you know what you are doing with npk levels, and you understand how plants acquire nutrition, then you can grow with just about anything.
I do think that the quality of Fox Farms Ocean Forest Soil has degraded consistently over the last 2 or 3 years. The demand for this product is beyond their capacity for making the higher quality mix that it became famous for. I also suggest only using organic nutrients in soil systems. Since Fox Farms nutrients are not organic, like you, I also wouldn't suggest their system.
Fox Farms does a good job for a lot of people around the net and the proof is there. When using their system it is good that you have accepted that it simply isn't the best around; a lot of new growers think FF is the shit and that is kind of "annoying" to have to listen to.
Even Canna needs some tweaking. I think Botanicare, Advanced Nutrients, and General Hydroponics have the diversity of systems and ratios that any grower can use in any system. Canna, DynaGro, Dutch Master, Humboldt Nutrients, House and Garden, Cutting Edge Solutions, Roots Organic, B'Cuzz, Fox Farms, etc, etc, etc... There are just so many companies shlepping what is essentially the same stuff in different concentrations. It is up to the grower to find which system works best for their particular skill level, account balance, and growing method.
Still though. I have yet to see someone really convince me that House and Garden is a superior system. I have been reading about them non-stop around here but it would seem that no one in this very vocal community of growers has a camera to offer proof of the claims.
Fox Farms is not crap. They are made of the same salts as other systems but in different element ratios. If you know what you are doing with npk levels, and you understand how plants acquire nutrition, then you can grow with just about anything.
I do think that the quality of Fox Farms Ocean Forest Soil has degraded consistently over the last 2 or 3 years. The demand for this product is beyond their capacity for making the higher quality mix that it became famous for. I also suggest only using organic nutrients in soil systems. Since Fox Farms nutrients are not organic, like you, I also wouldn't suggest their system.
Fox Farms does a good job for a lot of people around the net and the proof is there. When using their system it is good that you have accepted that it simply isn't the best around; a lot of new growers think FF is the shit and that is kind of "annoying" to have to listen to.
Even Canna needs some tweaking. I think Botanicare, Advanced Nutrients, and General Hydroponics have the diversity of systems and ratios that any grower can use in any system. Canna, DynaGro, Dutch Master, Humboldt Nutrients, House and Garden, Cutting Edge Solutions, Roots Organic, B'Cuzz, Fox Farms, etc, etc, etc... There are just so many companies shlepping what is essentially the same stuff in different concentrations. It is up to the grower to find which system works best for their particular skill level, account balance, and growing method.
Still though. I have yet to see someone really convince me that House and Garden is a superior system. I have been reading about them non-stop around here but it would seem that no one in this very vocal community of growers has a camera to offer proof of the claims.
Shwagbag
Well-Known Member
Thanks Jozi, they look ok except they're sick as fawk lol! I know about the transplanting, not happy, I've never done that before but had no choice this round due to my rotation being behind and needing to move shit. RE: the dolomite lime; I have found it necessary to keep my PH up, it seems the PH wants to drop as my grow moves closer to harvest and it seems to be doing the trick. I actually just added some more to stabilize the PH in the White Widow which crept down to 6.2 and was back to 6.5 the next watering.
Honestly I'm not digging (2) things, FFOF or their nutrient lineup. I'm not using it in flower as of yet, I'm actually using jacks bloom for the first 4 plants in my rotation to compare them to my other choice. Looks like it will be an unfair comparison since I'm still learning my TDS meter. I'm leaning towards roots organic, my first choice that yielded amazing results on my first grow a couple years ago in conjunction with Happy Frog. I think I'm going back to what works for the time being and going to continue to learn how to tailor my feedings based on my TDS meter and what the plant tells me. The plants may be reacting slightly to the higher PH from the last couple waterings (they were at 6.8. Perhaps stabilizing them at 6.5 will help them out.
I've never even heard of H & G lol. Roots organic was pretty sweet though, I used Happy Frog with Grow Big in veg and the Roots Organic Buddha Bloom in flower on my first grow and it was awesome. A little cal mag here and there but the plants produced 3-4 oz of heavy dense buds each.
Maybe this is a sign I should get back to the basics.
Shwagbag
Well-Known Member
Well, after looking at the plants again today I decided to feed again today even though I just fed yesterday. I dosed them with 800 ppm jack's bloom, Grow Big and Cal Mag. I just couldn't bring myself to let them starve for another feeding if they were in search of Mag and other nutrients. I hit all 4 plants with 1 gallon each of solution and collected about 1/3 gallon each of runoff. I tested the last 16 ounces of runoff from each plant and the TDS readings were pretty close to the same, right around 1000 ppm and I dropped the PH a bit hoping they might start to take more food, runoff was at 6.3. I feel better about having cal mag in the soil now though along with a boost of chow. I literally lost sleep over this last night lol.
Here are some pics of the sick PPP and the other PPP that went in 10 days AFTER the sick one. Also transplanted the day it went into flower. Young on the left, old sick bastard on the right.
Here are some pics of the sick PPP and the other PPP that went in 10 days AFTER the sick one. Also transplanted the day it went into flower. Young on the left, old sick bastard on the right.
Snow Crash
Well-Known Member
I'm really scared that shit is about to get really out of hand here.
There is something complex going on. Your 1000ppm plus runoff still worries me. I really think you need to get the runoff beneath 1000ppm, even with 800ppm solution. I don't care if it is 950... you gotta get those runoff ppms lower.
You've been washing out a 2.5 to 2.0ec (1000ppm and up) for the last four or five feedings. There is definitely residual built up in there and I am now thinking that this is upsetting the coco CEC. I really expected a lot less build up to wash out this time around. You could probably have doubled the amount of runoff and still needed just a bit more.
IMO, I think you needed more like 1.66 gallons of solution per plant and about 1 gallon of runoff. Really, a kind of excessive amount, but you're at the point where you have got to get the build up washed out because the ratio inside the media is most definitely off.
Feeding todays was the right call for sure, but I think you need to concentrate on the runoff a little better. You pretty much cannot have "too much" runoff so just go to town on them. If you watered within the last 4 hours, just run another gallon through them and collect all that. Once we are totally sure your media is balanced and rinsed then we can start addressing other things, like fine tuning your ratios.
I have seen plants do what your sick plant is doing.
99% of the time it is because of a buildup of some salt in the media. The plants die FAST. You need to get them rinsed ASAP, but use the same solution you did earlier to ensure you aren't starving them. The cal-mag right now, with all the runoff, is CRUCIAL!
There is something complex going on. Your 1000ppm plus runoff still worries me. I really think you need to get the runoff beneath 1000ppm, even with 800ppm solution. I don't care if it is 950... you gotta get those runoff ppms lower.
You've been washing out a 2.5 to 2.0ec (1000ppm and up) for the last four or five feedings. There is definitely residual built up in there and I am now thinking that this is upsetting the coco CEC. I really expected a lot less build up to wash out this time around. You could probably have doubled the amount of runoff and still needed just a bit more.
IMO, I think you needed more like 1.66 gallons of solution per plant and about 1 gallon of runoff. Really, a kind of excessive amount, but you're at the point where you have got to get the build up washed out because the ratio inside the media is most definitely off.
Feeding todays was the right call for sure, but I think you need to concentrate on the runoff a little better. You pretty much cannot have "too much" runoff so just go to town on them. If you watered within the last 4 hours, just run another gallon through them and collect all that. Once we are totally sure your media is balanced and rinsed then we can start addressing other things, like fine tuning your ratios.
I have seen plants do what your sick plant is doing.
99% of the time it is because of a buildup of some salt in the media. The plants die FAST. You need to get them rinsed ASAP, but use the same solution you did earlier to ensure you aren't starving them. The cal-mag right now, with all the runoff, is CRUCIAL!
Shwagbag
Well-Known Member
Well the thing is that my runoff has always been over 1000 ppm, it seems if I were to use straight tap water with no additives it would be over 1000 ppm at transplant and my records indicate that is the case. I presume this is the organics in the soil? I really don't feel like I have fed them much at all. Also the TDS results I'm getting with stronger feedings are telling me there are no more salts in the soil now than when there were simply organics from the soil.
To be safe, since they're getting flushed today anyways I will make another 4 gallons of mixture and run it through them. I will post the TDS and PH results when I get done. Thanks Crash
Snow Crash
Well-Known Member
I had some Nirvana Blue Mystics that just couldn't go over about 800ppm, in or out. At around 750ppm they flourish, and during veg they handle high ppms pretty well, but somewhere around the 3rd week of flowering they would tank and I couldn't figure it out.
It was just a high ppm thing. Too much residual left over in the coco from earlier feedings. I have found that getting a lot of run off is pretty crucial to keeping things in check with coco, and it was the deal breaker with this particular Blue Mystic.
So do what you can to get your ppms washed back down under 1000 for sure. If this happens to be one of the ligher feeding phenotypes then maybe she'll do better at around 750ppm in and out rather than 800ppm... but... who knows at this stage. Do what is in your heart when it comes to that level, but definitely work on that runoff.
Don't high low your system.
I told you about that before. You don't want to start running clean water through there. Different elements wash out at different rates and to really get the stuff clean it is going to take dozens of gallons of water. Just stick with the right ratio and "rinse." Rinsing isn't quite flushing and it will still accomplish the job you are looking for. You're not off by much, not so much to really justify a flush (1500ppm above the in value is definitely flush time though) You are probably only deviating by about 50% right now.
When you add 800ppm and you get out 1200ppm then the difference, 400ppm, is 1/2 of what you are putting in there. This is a 50% deviance.
The idea here is to bring your deviance down to 10% ideally, but 20% acceptably (considering runoff volume). That would mean if you were running 800ppm in you would want somewhere between 880ppm and 960ppm out. Below 1000ppm for sure, and somewhere around 900ppm is great for the moment while we start to figure this out. Eventually, we may find that lower is better for this plant... But I don't want to go too low.
Really hard from this vantage point to tell you exactly what to do with supreme confidence. I am hoping for the best and think this is the most logical approach to a continuing problem.
My only other idea is one of those "doh" sort of things. Have you calibrated your pH meter recently???
It was just a high ppm thing. Too much residual left over in the coco from earlier feedings. I have found that getting a lot of run off is pretty crucial to keeping things in check with coco, and it was the deal breaker with this particular Blue Mystic.
So do what you can to get your ppms washed back down under 1000 for sure. If this happens to be one of the ligher feeding phenotypes then maybe she'll do better at around 750ppm in and out rather than 800ppm... but... who knows at this stage. Do what is in your heart when it comes to that level, but definitely work on that runoff.
Don't high low your system.
I told you about that before. You don't want to start running clean water through there. Different elements wash out at different rates and to really get the stuff clean it is going to take dozens of gallons of water. Just stick with the right ratio and "rinse." Rinsing isn't quite flushing and it will still accomplish the job you are looking for. You're not off by much, not so much to really justify a flush (1500ppm above the in value is definitely flush time though) You are probably only deviating by about 50% right now.
When you add 800ppm and you get out 1200ppm then the difference, 400ppm, is 1/2 of what you are putting in there. This is a 50% deviance.
The idea here is to bring your deviance down to 10% ideally, but 20% acceptably (considering runoff volume). That would mean if you were running 800ppm in you would want somewhere between 880ppm and 960ppm out. Below 1000ppm for sure, and somewhere around 900ppm is great for the moment while we start to figure this out. Eventually, we may find that lower is better for this plant... But I don't want to go too low.
Really hard from this vantage point to tell you exactly what to do with supreme confidence. I am hoping for the best and think this is the most logical approach to a continuing problem.
My only other idea is one of those "doh" sort of things. Have you calibrated your pH meter recently???