Led Users Unite!

Spuzzum

Well-Known Member
I disagree I would rather swap fans often then swap lights often... Hot air coming out the side will just head up and back into the light if the fans are just blowing the hotter air from the higher points in the room where hot air is usually accumulated...Not useful.....Even the heat cause buy the small DC fan is passing threw the light B4 exiting..I don't think this the best way...I dont know about you man but my cpu is always fucking hot
You're forgetting that a fan, even in the hottest of summers, will make you feel cooler if blowing directly on you. As for the cpu and tower.. speaking from experience. Have a thermalright highriser.. fan blowing in had lower temps than fan drawing through. Even better in a push-pull though :D.
http://www.ocia.net/reviews/hr01/page1.shtml

Cpu's do get pretty hot, but if you're 50c or higher, then there's a problem. Mine's around 25-30c.. but I also have a high flow case.



I hope you guys aren't taking me wrong, as I'm not bashing led's.. in fact I'm building my own.. purchasing 2 colours a month 'til I'm done :p It's just that after researching since December, both parts and design, I'm really starting to see "some" dealer's bs.. and it's insulting.

One dealer has a video, saying how his fixtures were better than ones from China, as his were made with Cree's.. yet his panel has 380nm, 660nm, and 735nm. Cree doesn't make those wavelengths. Turns out, the only Cree guaranteed to be in his panels.. Cree Whites. Same as some panel claiming Bridgelux. Well, unless the panel's only using whites and blues, then it's not all Bridgelux.. Bridgelux only makes blues and whites.
http://www.bridgelux.com/products/ledchips.html
 

devk

Active Member
what your considering heat definitely isnt hot enough to cause mechanical or electrical issues
Mechanical no. electrical no. Physical yes

High Temps bashing down onto plants is a problem in the rang of 35C .Tight quarters.

How come when your car or your house im gonna say releases useless air It useally reach's the farthest point of structure/car before exiting ..Like the chimney of your house or the tail pipe of your car I know that this air is also toxic but it works the same...... why?
 

dunit

Active Member
tear that unit down to the bare board if the diodes are not in solid lines you are running mixed in fact 99.999999999% are going to be mixed diodes multiple power supplies are there to push different strings but the power supplie are all the same remember pics i posted earlier back yea aint not a single line of diodes hooked to those running single color
I took my ISIS-1 apart. I unplug one power supply half the reds go down. I unplug another one, the other half of the reds go down. I unplug the third power supply, the blues go down. I'll take some pics
 

kush groove

Active Member
the led's dont actually push air down but out through the sides, but someone above was saying the air is pulled down to make sure the heat sink is properly cooled......u may just need more air flow.........my exhaust is at the top so it all works out fine for me
 
whats up RIU. i'm going led. my space is 25"x18"x35". i think a ufo will grow some decent nugz in this small space. i have been looking at sunshine led's, growledhydro.com, and advanced led. any info? thx
 

jdizzle22

Well-Known Member
the led's dont actually push air down but out through the sides, but someone above was saying the air is pulled down to make sure the heat sink is properly cooled......u may just need more air flow.........my exhaust is at the top so it all works out fine for me
My 395w total draw LED has 6 fans blowing on a finned heat sink and the air can come out every side of the fixture. I have it in a 2.5ft x 2.5ft x6ft tent with a 175-190cfm fan/filter combo (it pulls in the sides of the tent noticeably). The glass of my light is barely warm (you could rest your hand on it forever and it would never get very warm or hot), the air is definitely coming out all sides of the LED light, but the filter in the top of my tent seems to pull virtually all that air up above the light in the upper part of the tent (I have to get my thermometer within a foot of the light to get higher temps and even then only 3 degrees above ambient). I have a remote heat sensor thingy hanging in the upper 1/3rd of the tent where all this warm air from the light is circulating before exiting the tent, and it usually registers about 6-8 degrees above the temperature of the room the tent is in. Even a good 3w diodes 395w panel (thats counting the fans) in a grow tent will heat up an average (12x12) sized bedroom perhaps a couple degrees unless its in teh 70s or higher outside. That is still way better than with a 400w HPS which would make the whole tent 15 above and heat the room at least 15 and above without wide open window.

Of course you could adjust the speed of your filter fan and let the temps get higher in the tent or lower. It would be much easier to control temps this way with LED than HID since they put out at least 75% less heat watt for watt. If I wanted to warm my room more in the winter I could raise the speed of the fan, or if I wanted to give the plants some warmth, slow the fan down. Since LED puts out so much less heat you don't have to raise the temps of the room or the grow area by much, maybe a total of 8 degrees to spread between the room, in the tent below the light, in the tent above the light with 395w of LED fixtures.
 

meharmon

Member
@Spuzzum if you're building your own, take a look back a few pages at links for the solaroasis patents for the nm they use.

Also, I think maybe no one read that before-- it had some great info about light penetration vs. angle.
 

meharmon

Member
I found this post from 2004 on candlepower forums which relates to the discussion on wattage misadvertisement:
"Watts is just a measure of energy dissipation. I think most people relate watts to light because numerous residential & commercial light bulbs are sold on the basis of wattage. Even compact flourescent bulbs are marketed as "comparable to [x] watts."

A 100 watt florescent bulb, for example, would put out substantially more visible light than a 100-watt incadescent bulb."

So for those who may have missed the portion of this thread that talked about it, the total advertised is usually the total of the chips, like the Blackstar 240 is eighty 3W chips, but as with most LEDs are driven at half power, so it only draws 133W including fans and all. If it was 1W chips, we'd be looking at a Blackstar 80 with a ~40w draw. The reason for pushing at half power(watts) is that the light output does not increase accordingly. You will get more heat, which will cause the LED to fail sooner and distort out of its original spectrum if the heat is not dealt with accordingly.

Thanks for the info on your Isis internals, dunit. Does it have 2 different red wavelengths in there?
 

Spuzzum

Well-Known Member
Just a quick note on fans...

The fans aren't so much for "venting" as they are for keeping the heatsink cool. The led's are heat sensitive. They are tested for 25c.. anything above, and the led's lifespan shorten very quickly. And if too high... dead led. It's not the heatsink itself that gets measured.. it's the star that the led is soldered to. That's where you test with a thermometer.

If it was just to "vent heat".. you could do it like a tv.. no fans needed, just let the heat rise out the top, pulling cooler air in through the sides. But like I said.. you want to cool the heatsink to ensure 25c led's.



Also.. if any my responses don't make sense, I'm sorry... been living on nothing but KD since 1st week January trying to pay for my led's. I admit I've been a little "foggy" lately... sorry :p



Cheers...........
 

Spuzzum

Well-Known Member
@Spuzzum if you're building your own, take a look back a few pages at links for the solaroasis patents for the nm they use.

Also, I think maybe no one read that before-- it had some great info about light penetration vs. angle.
Thanks man. :)

465nm
612nm
660nm

But it's missing 450nm, 630nm, and InfraRed 730nm.




Although InfraRed's not in the graph, it's been found that plants do need it. Not a lot, but some.



Spectrums I'm using...

410-415nm
450nm
470nm
610-620nm
630nm
660nm
735nm
CoolWhite 5000K - 8300K
WarmWhite 2600K - 3700K


I'm also considering 380nm UV-B.. but can only find from China. Would prefer "other".
 

plumplum

Member
currently using 8 kessil 150 watt leds on a 3 by 6 flood table for bloom i have a 4 by 4 set up with 4 kessils for veg this my second grow with these lights
I have no real issues and decent yields with no heat issues
 

Spuzzum

Well-Known Member
My 395w total draw LED has 6 fans blowing on a finned heat sink and the air can come out every side of the fixture. I have it in a 2.5ft x 2.5ft x6ft tent with a 175-190cfm fan/filter combo (it pulls in the sides of the tent noticeably). The glass of my light is barely warm (you could rest your hand on it forever and it would never get very warm or hot), the air is definitely coming out all sides of the LED light, but the filter in the top of my tent seems to pull virtually all that air up above the light in the upper part of the tent (I have to get my thermometer within a foot of the light to get higher temps and even then only 3 degrees above ambient). I have a remote heat sensor thingy hanging in the upper 1/3rd of the tent where all this warm air from the light is circulating before exiting the tent, and it usually registers about 6-8 degrees above the temperature of the room the tent is in. Even a good 3w diodes 395w panel (thats counting the fans) in a grow tent will heat up an average (12x12) sized bedroom perhaps a couple degrees unless its in teh 70s or higher outside. That is still way better than with a 400w HPS which would make the whole tent 15 above and heat the room at least 15 and above without wide open window.

Of course you could adjust the speed of your filter fan and let the temps get higher in the tent or lower. It would be much easier to control temps this way with LED than HID since they put out at least 75% less heat watt for watt. If I wanted to warm my room more in the winter I could raise the speed of the fan, or if I wanted to give the plants some warmth, slow the fan down. Since LED puts out so much less heat you don't have to raise the temps of the room or the grow area by much, maybe a total of 8 degrees to spread between the room, in the tent below the light, in the tent above the light with 395w of LED fixtures.
That is a pretty good point. Since led's only raise the temp by so little, many 1st timers think they don't need to vent the space... thus not replenishing the co2. Plants won't grow as well without proper air exchange. If adding co2 to the garden, then yes.. keep sealed, and let the temp rise to high 80's/low 90's.. or whatever you're preference.

But most importantly.. replenish the co2 with proper air exchange if "not" adding co2. Otherwise your plants won't do what they're capable of. ;)
 

d7b

Well-Known Member
can't seem to find the actual unit weight of the blackstar 240v LEDs . Can somebody post them?

I was considering 2 X 240w (140W actual) Blackstars. One for each plant. Would this be enough? I will also supplement with a 400w HPS for warmth.

On the website, I just saw the 180w UFO lights which might suit me better for 1 light per plant? The website claims they produce more lumens as well (http://westcoastled.net/3.html) .

Can anybody shed some light on what they would recommend? I was going to buy one big panel but after reading all this feel I should get separate ones in case i have different rates of vegetative growth from different strains.
 

Spuzzum

Well-Known Member
can't seem to find the actual unit weight of the blackstar 240v LEDs . Can somebody post them?

I was considering 2 X 240w (140W actual) Blackstars. One for each plant. Would this be enough? I will also supplement with a 400w HPS for warmth.

On the website, I just saw the 180w UFO lights which might suit me better for 1 light per plant? The website claims they produce more lumens as well (http://westcoastled.net/3.html) .

Can anybody shed some light on what they would recommend? I was going to buy one big panel but after reading all this feel I should get separate ones in case i have different rates of vegetative growth from different strains.
It's the Cree Whites that boost the Lumens so much... more than 100 Lumens per led. And if you look at the face of the panel.. there's only 1 white in the whole thing. This is the company that was boasting "Cree" in their panels.. but it's not "all" Cree's in there.. Cree doesn't make 660nm for one thing ;).

I also noticed they've recently changed their banner.. used to have "Cree" in big letters.. jumped out at ya. Not anymore.. in fact, the 180 model's "discontinued".
 

yesum

Well-Known Member
How's it going guys just purchased my first led. I ended up getting the blackstar 240w and was wondering how many mature plants this single light could handle thanks for the help
2 x 2 foot area, how many plants is up to you.
 

budlover909

Active Member
380nm isnt uvb its 290nm youre looking for i just ordered some from nichia just waiting on dad to figure out the power driver it needs gonna build a solid uvb light
 

meharmon

Member
2009LGM5vsHPSSpectralLGM2-768x581.jpgThis is from the patent:

Abstract A first set of orange LEDs with a peak wavelength emission of about 612 nanometers, a second set of red light emitting LEDs with a peak wavelength of about 660 nanometers, and blue light LEDs. Two beam spreads, 15.degree. and 30.degree., were provided for both the 660 nm LEDs and 612 nm LEDs. When directed perpendicularly upon tops of the plant leaves, 10% light transmission occurred through the leaves for the 30.degree. LEDs, and 80% light transmission for the 15.degree. LEDs. Thus, fully 50% of the orange/red spectrum primarily used for photosynthesis was transmitted through the upper leaf canopy, making it available to support photosynthesis in leaves below.

"By providing the orange 612 nm light, we not only promote creation of carotenoids, which are required for plant health, but also add a little to photosynthesis, since the carotenoids pass their absorbed energy to chlorophyll. Carotenoids are required for plant health due to their ability to absorb destructive free radicals, both from solar damage and from chlorophyll production, whose precursors will damage plant tissue in the absence of the carotenoids. During research we found that, beneficially, test plants turned a deeper green, i.e. produced more chlorophyll, with the addition of our 612 nm light component. This ability to increase a plant's chlorophyll content with this specific light wavelength is an important aspect of our invention.

Blue light of about 465 nm, this wavelength being non-critical, is strongly absorbed by most of the plant pigments, but is preferably included as the third component in our lamp to support proper photomorphogenesis, or plant development. Any LED near this wavelength will work as well, but the 470 nm LEDs are commonly available and less expensive than many other blue LEDs.

Regarding the proper proportion for each wavelength, it is known, from independent laboratory research, that a blue/red proportion of 6-8% blue to red is optimal. In sunlight the blue/red light proportion is about 30%, but this is not required by plants. More than 8% blue light provides no additional benefit, but adds to the cost of the device since blue LEDs are among the most expensive to manufacture. In our device we include about 8% blue light, which is near optimal for plant development while offering the greatest cost savings. Our research showed that best results were obtained when the output of the 612 nm orange LEDs in our device was added to the output of the 660 nm red LEDs when calculating our most desired blue/red proportion."
 

Green Dave

Well-Known Member
Hey guys just read the last 10 pages (sorry that as far back as I went)
Has any one tryed the Procyon 100 I have one I use for veg and it rocks
Just ordered 2 Blackdog BD220 pulls over 200 watts anyone try them?
 

dunit

Active Member
Hey guys just read the last 10 pages (sorry that as far back as I went)
Has any one tryed the Procyon 100 I have one I use for veg and it rocks
Just ordered 2 Blackdog BD220 pulls over 200 watts anyone try them?
I have two procyons and they work great for veg but cover such a small area that to get sufficient intensity for flowering you have to have lots on them and the cost is just ridiculous for a 100 watt led panel. I got okay results using two procyons over a 2x3 area which for $1200 is just plain retarded. For that kind of money I could get three ISIS 170's and cover at least double if not three times the area and get better yields. Procyon are also only bi-spectrum (might be three spectrum, can't recall if they have two red)
 
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