Lotsa pics... stunted growth, curled leaves, too tight nodal growth

[707Napacalibomb]

So I have a pretty indepth system going on here that has been operating perfectly after getting a few kinks out when I finished the expansion 6months ago. There are pic of both veg rooms, and both flowering rooms just for shits and giggles but I am starting to have a problem and now it is at least two generations deep.

So I grow maybe 7 strains white widow, blue dream, cherynobl, cheese, grape ape purple urkle, snow dawwg. And I just axed chocolopes lineage because it wasnt producing proper. All were growing fine but first the chocolope(a new strain to me) started gorwing with small fan leaves that were curled like claws. Next the blue dream, my bread and butter, started growing really tight and curled growth. It is normally a sativa dominant stretchy plant. It is taking about twice as long to get through veg as it used to. However, if I let the plants get to the correct size they still seem to stretch out and do fine in flower. But if I flower them too early maybe only 8-12 inches they hradly stretch and the buds are lucking like they will be much smaller. I normally gro some fairly large plants. The blue dream should be at least 3.5 ft after stretching when I flower.

I feel as the problem lies in the vegatative stage. Maybe three weeks ago I had some problems with my ph pen and was feeding water that was not 5.5-6. Although that is fixed the problem persists even with new plants. My temeratures do fluctuate between the two veg rooms but temp maxes and mins are 87 and 59 over the past weeks and I dont think temps or circulation are the issues.

 

[707Napacalibomb]

Here is what I run with. One closet converted with a 600 W on a light rail a 6in fan on a platform halfway up with a T5 8light 4ft. underneath and my veg space.

The tent is 4x8 with a 1000 and 600W plus im getting a 120W UFO in next couple days but not there yet. There is a Phat filter, a 6in and booster fan. I use a big boy water filter and the full line of general organics plus a couple addons like root accel and mychor as well as bud candy. Iver got it set to where I harvest about every three weeks maybe 7-10plants

 

[707Napacalibomb]

So the problem that is occuring most notably in these pictures but in a lot of plants is this super tight growth with badly curled claw like leaves. Most of these afflicted are the blue dream but it is evident in most except some really healthy cheese plants that have been getting treated identical to the afflicted... Ive grown BD for a while and did get a new lineage within the last 8 months but the first couple of generations grew fast and normal.
I use the previous mentioned nutes but I dont really push em too hard. I nute as the product lines suggest and then the next watering is pure H20. Yall got any suggestions Im getting frustrated. O yea Ive been using the same fox farm ocean forest dirt for the last few years.

 

[707Napacalibomb]

White wdiow at nine weeks. one more week to go

 

[707Napacalibomb]

I dont have any bugs or mildew that I have seen within the past 4-5months too Any help is much appreciated

 

[abudtokr]

White wdiow at nine weeks. one more week to go

How come my white widow has fat leafs? I was under the impression white widows strain was indica?

 

[RoloTomassi]

How come my white widow has fat leafs? I was under the impression white widows strain was indica?

The original White Widow, (Mr. Nice Black Widow) is at least an Indica/Sativa Hybrid. There is some discussion about exactly what percentage of indica and Sativa properties Black Widow has in this thread: http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/black-widow/1804-so-what-about-brazilian-sativa-3.html. The consensus seems to be somewhere around 50/50 -- meaning it could lean either way depending on pheno; at least that's how I interpret it. The original breeder also has something to say about it's history in the post I linked.

As for the Indica/Sativa make-up of any strain named "White Widow", that's a bit of a toss up. The original White Widow is known to be a cross between a Brazilian Sativa and South Indian Indica, most seed vendors advertise their version of White Widows with the same genetic parents as Mr. Nice's Black Widow but some do not. Take for instance, Dinafem's White Widow: http://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/dinafem-seeds-white-widow/prod_57.html who's genetics are listed as Haze x Skunk x Northern Lights.

Given that there is a disparity in the exact genetics of White Widow vendor to vendor it's not surprising that there would be variations in the balance of Sativa and Indica properties vendor to vendor...

My take on this phenomena:

Variations in famously named strains, rightly or wrongly seem to depend on the biases of a breeder's personal preference: What he believes makes that particular strain special are the properties he attempts to enhance and refine in his breeding program and those become the properties that define his version of the strain.

 

[Kingrow1]

You got small plants in big pots, they show signs of over fert and fertilizer manufacturers dont factor in the nutes already in soil so if you use fresh soil hold back the nutes till you see deficiency probably at about week 5 to 6 but probably never in those big ass pots with them itsy bitsy little plants in!! Your bud calyxs are running or seperating from the bud under stress too. You got an impressive range of ferts going there but i get better results with just good soil and the right size pot for the plant and little or 'NO' fertilizer. Try prove me wrong and start a plant in a small pot, repot up in four to five weeks and repot before flowering to a final size pot and dont add nutes to see wether you are overfertilizing and better still recognize when to fertilize in soil or if youd rather repot up instead. Dont know if you said your using the same old soil again and again or wether you use fresh soil. God damn fertilizer manufacturers would love you! Peace dude.

 

[IVIars]

Are you running the GO or the Flora Nova? What ppm, ph? It looks like a nute burn, but not bad though

 

[707Napacalibomb]

right on king grow. Ive been kinda comin to the same conclusion about the soil just being too hot but Ihadnt really changed my game plan in a long while except by adding roots accel. Ive started putting plants in 1 gals to start with out fert and when I transplant Ill start hitting with root additives. I use soil twice then toss it.

Ive been running the general organics at about 5.8-6.0 Ph not sure on the ppms. Im gunna start using smaller pots at first and hold back on ferts... Ill let u know

 

[Kingrow1]

Thanks dude, i see the same for countless soil grows and still people say deficiency etc etc zinc etc etc, well i say wotever to them, soil companies just uping and uping their soil nute levels thinking more nutes equals bigger plants. This stuff is getting harder and harder to grow ganga in (works great for flowers like geraniums but that don't get you high etc)! I'm almost at the point with my westlands seedling soil and west plus for flowering where by i got to dilute it because every plant is showing small signs of stress which grow out as the plant gets bigger only to repot for flowering and get the same problems!!! Seriously and for all them noobs and novices this will save you years of soil growing heartach and tons of money on fertilizers. Try this site and read the grow guide at the bottom of their homepage under the heading get growing particularly the last the guides called 'Soil Guide, Water and pH' and fertilizing smart guide'. They do sell seeds but this guide is pretty much the other side of the coin compared to all the rest. Hers the link-

http://www.mandalaseeds.com/

They advocate potting up the marijuana plant instead of fertilizing and how the size of pot is so important also that soil contains a lot of nutes already, i suspected sorry scrap that i knew it was the soil burning my plants a few years ago but never admited it to myself and tried everything else and i mean 'EVERYTHING ELSE'. I'm talking single nutrients for specific nute probs, cal mag, temps, heat, watering but nothing would stop me fertilizing too soon and especially with the soil being so hot to begin with. Well i'm happy now, no probs and flower a lot better although sometimes i use the seedling soil for flowering if i think the plant won't take well to the full strength flowering compost.
One sure cure to this is to buy a more specialised soil, yes i have found cheapish ones on the net and people rave fox farms but this is what i'm gona look into next, maybe we all need to compare soils and weed out the real hot ones. I don't fert for five six weeks in veg, you defo got fert burn but can see some other probs from pot size and watering. Check that link and hope things improve. Try no ferts for just one plant and plant up small to big in the right size pot to see what happens as an experiment, you got so many that just one won't hurt to confirm what i say or eliminate this as a possible problem. Thanks

 

[Kingrow1]

Just saw that you use your soil twice then throw, if you do sort the problems out you will increase yield and be better off so more able to just use it once and throw. If the soil is a little hot bulk with cheap coco coir or somthing to weaken it and stretch it out longer which will futher bring the price down. Basically i'd say ok use the soil twice but not when its giving you so many probs and you need a base point to start from, one that you know and trust and second hand soil is not this unless refreshed properly. Just better grow techniques, does any one have any good ways to refresh soil for the second use and preferably one that is simple??

 

[IVIars]

What do you use to ph your water? I talked to the GO rep at an indoor expo and he said that you should not ph their GO line. Im running it to and noticed the ph rise from 5.3-5.4 going in to 6.2 coming out. He also said to only use it with a drain to waste system, and not to bubble it. I use that for my coco and Floranova for my soil. The ph is 6.2-6.3 with it.

 

[Dancing Gardener]

Hello!

If you try and keep the temperature at a constant 80 degrees with 40 to 50 percent humidity you will have better luck . You probably have heat stress or stress from temperature variations. When you fert with high temps your leaves can't process the food very well.

You said you were ferting them lightly and I'm guessing the leaves are still green but turned under. So I bet it's heat stress causing a fert overdose. I know it sounds crazy but the heat messes up everything and your typical fert schedule can seem like too much to the plant. I can't tell from the pictures but if your leaves are yellow and burning then it's too high a fert in too hot a room. You may want to put another 600w in the tent instead of that 1000 watt. Once the temperature stabilizes you will notice you can do your regular fert.

Also I use Roots Organics soil and most often don't even have to fert in the vegatative stage unless I'm letting them get real big.

Hope you have tremendous luck with your garden!

 

[707Napacalibomb]

Im actually using eath organics to ph my water but when I use the full ferts I actually have to bring the ph up just a hair. Yea and I def dumped all my soil. it also just got hot here and after multiple generations of mold mildew and bug free growing I found spider mites. I went defcon 5 on those bitches and chopped everything over 3 weeks in the infected tent. I bleached the entire room and sprayed each plant with neem oil and home and garden organic pesticide. As far as timing goes it is as good as it gets but still sucks. They popped up out of nowhere. Ive had no contact with other clubs or infected grow rooms that I know of so... Dealt with them before.

I also planted two sets of rooted clones in one gallon containers a week apart and everything I have has just been getting flushed with water. I have even already had some success in smaller containers. Maybe 1 1/2 week asgo I planted a semi-healthy purple urkle clone in a real small probably qt container and it is tall healthy green and smooth leafed. Also some of the first generation of one gallon clones look real nice and are growing like blue dream and white widow should.
It is odd that I havent had this problem and Ive been putting clones directly into 5gal containers and things where going great but I guess shit happens

Thanks RIU
I am also definately looking into some research and any ones experience with some nice soils. What do yall like?