Your Water and PH Control!

[tails111]

Hey all,


I am starting a new post on the topic of water and the affects of plants into the early vegetative growth cycle before introducing them into the flower period.

Why start a post like this? and what has been my experience...


I have now lost 4 crops at my house and the water issue seems so bad that PH swings trouble any cuttings and that want to take off. I bought a Reverse osmosis machine as initially we thought the tap water had changed due to high rain in the area in which I live.


So in order for me to gain some knowledge of the effects of tap water and R.O water.


Could you please answer the following questions..


1. What ph is your tap water?

2. If you use R.O water what ph does it come out to?

3. Once adding a veg nutrient solution to your tap water and in turn tank you run the solution overnight how much does it swing?

4. Once adding veg nutrient solution to you R.O water and in turn to your tank you run the solution overnight how much does it swing?

5. If you experience swings what were your possible causes?


Thanks

Tails

 

[Illegal Smile]

I don't worry about pH at all as long as it stays between 5.5 and 7.2. Some nutrients are more forgiving on pH than others and some do a better job of buffering pH to a steady level than others. I use Humboldt Master A&B and it has been at least 10 days since I have seen a pH that varied from 6.0 more than .2

 

[vanderlay707]

dont worry what it is straight out of the tap just add ph down to get it to the right level.

 

[tip top toker]

My tap ph is about 8, i set it once and then ignore it till it's all gone. I don't encounter any issues and don't moniter for any changes.

 

[phear]

from memory my ph is 6.8 out the tap i used to mess around with it

dont any more as i have found it to be better just leaving it alone and worry about ppm not ph!

obviously regular flushes with new nutes keep the salt from building up and ph swinging too much!

 

[Optic1]

Anybody out there using well water. We put on a RO and it does make a difference. Always wondered if the minerals (hard water) in well water are helpful.

Initial well water ph 7.7-7.8 and ppm 283
RO ppm's drops to 23 but ph remains about the same 7.5 or 7.6

 

[Charlie Ventura]

After a few years of using RO water I went back to straight tap water. I use GH nutes and the PH stays right around 6.0. I haven't used PH up or down for years now. I grow using aero.

 

[Encomium]

Anybody out there using well water. We put on a RO and it does make a difference. Always wondered if the minerals (hard water) in well water are helpful.

Initial well water ph 7.7-7.8 and ppm 283
RO ppm's drops to 23 but ph remains about the same 7.5 or 7.6

I'd imagine your well water has beneficial minerals for your plants however I'd imagine that it's equally likely that those same minerals are in quantities that would be harmful to your plants (ie. iron, magnesium, etc.). Basically you'd have to have a water quality report done to find out.

 

[tails111]

Hey guys,

I live in Australia in the southern states, so any info is best applied to what we get here. So let me fill you guys in on the test that were done..hopefully i don't spin you guys out too much, cos im definitely stumped.

I have grown with small rock wool cubes and in the same system/s for a number of years so many times i just kept growing with what worked and brought about a decent harvest. i didn't always follow everything to the textbook, for e.g i only ever rinsed my hydroton balls with straight tap water or
i always used tap water, never let chlorine evaporate and used the water for my res, basically fill up and use.

Things just worked well...

To the tests.

My mother plants are on tap water, 1/4 strength nute solution and i occasionally get a little swing up 0.6 fraction, nothing to be concerned. So i just leave them at 6.0, and the tank isnt even oxygenated. Plants get watered every 2 hours, works fine.


Not so the case with cuttings...

Day one: just circulating on a 15min feed schedule every two hours, ph’d TAP water @ 6.0, hydroton balls not rinsed in anyway before entering the system, left on 6.0 swung up to 8, overnight
Day two: Just circulating on a 15min feed schedule every two hours ph’d TAP water @ 6.0, hydroton balls were rinsed and soaked prior at 5.5, nutes ¼ strength, 4-6ppm went from 6.0 up to 7.0 overnight
Day three, added plants to the already rinsed hydroton balls. Plant had already suffered a nutrient deficiency due to early swings and burns, circulating on a 15min feed schedule every two hours ph’d TAP water @ 6.0 and swung up to 7.5 left on 6.
On the second week after constantly adjusting the water every Fffing day we finally got the R.O machine. Ran with straight 100% R.O for the first week week with nutrients ¼ strength 4-6 ppm, ( prob should not have done 100% R.O).
For the first two weeks ¼ tap, ¾ R.O, res would swing from 6.0 to 6.6, plants stayed stable and growth developed.
Stayed stable for about a month. Plants grew about 2 foot in this period and showed healthy signs.
At the moment overnight swinging is from 6.0 to 7 – to 7.5, using one third tap to 2/3 of R.O water .



R.O water is 8.0. This will vary if the tank has more that 1/4 nute solution

For example
2/3 R.O 1/3 tap waterveg nutes depends how much you add but if you add ¼ strength nutes takes the R.O water up to 6.5

If you add say a 1/2 strength nute solution to the 2/3 R.O to 1/3 tap the ph will be lower the 6.0

and if you add the normal ration of 5m;/p lt for nutes it will bring the mixed solution to below 5.5



Interesting to say the least. Tell me what you think guys.

Ill definitely try another veg nute solution!

Thanks

Tails

 

[legallyflying]

Dude, its your hydroton. I'm not going to go over it as I seem to have said this at least a dozen times. You need to SOAK your hydroton in PH'd water for a couple days until it stabilizes. I bet you $50 fucking dollars (us dollars mind you) that if you scooped up a couple gallon of hydroton in a bucket, filled it with tap and PH'd to 5.0, you will come back the next morning and it will be AT LEAST 6.5.

I can see that your driving yourself crazy with all this 1/3 this and 2/3 that and 1/2 of this added to 4/16th of that but its not your water. Soak your hydroton (you will need to add shit tons of PH down) and all will be well. I promise.

 

[tails111]

Hey bro

Thanks for the info.

Ha sorry sometimes takes a while to sink in...

Are you sure you don't want to bet the Auzzie dollar it's stronger that the American at the mo.

And yea your 100% right its been driving us fucken crazy!!!!!!!!!!

Cool will soak the def pebs!

Have been using these pebs for a number of years and haven't had this problem before and didn't soak them before think that's why its taken so long to sink in!!!!

Quick question how do you soak them? I was thinking in the bath but don't want to get the pebs jammed in the drain. Do you have any genius ways of doing it or is a simple as getting one of those little metal things that go no the top of the drain under the plug?

Chur

 

[legallyflying]

Yeah a strainer in the drain works well. I just soak then in my 55 gallon rez which is just a storage tote with a little wooden frame so it won't deform when full

I had the same issue with some hydroton and i did a shit ton of research on it. Apparently the clay can oxidize and become very basic. The chemistry behind this is obviously further complicated in older hydroton and the precense of nutrient, plant matter, and various microbes. I am 99% certain it's the hydroton. The only time i see really big ph swings is when I add sugars into the Rez when running biotics. This tends to acidify the Rez. Using RO water will exacerbate ph swings due to the lack if metals and other compounds which actually serve to buffer the water from ph changes.

A little hint. If you soak the hydroton overnight and when you come back the next day and stir it and it fizzes; letting of a bunch of bubbles then you can rest assured that was the prob.

 

[tails111]

Hey bro

Its good to know its just not us that has had this problem.

Hey quick inquiry when you say we will have to add shit tons of PH down to the water is this an exact measurement? Ha what range if PH would be best to address this situation?

Do you think that 48 hours is enough soaking time or be better to go for 72 hours?

Also cuz if you could send me any links from the research you did on the Hydrotron would be massively appreciated as would be good to have a read my self.

Chur

 

[tails111]

Hey bro

Forgot to ask,

We had this problem before and moved the girls into another room and they stabilised for about a month and now they starting to swing again, they still looking healthy tho and am monitoring them just trying to work out why it could possibly happen.

Here is what they looked like when we too them out.

And this is what they look like now.

Think maybe getting the same problems with the new ones.
First photo is four days ago

This photo I took to night

They are the same leaf this is probability the worst girl but the others aren't far off.

Also do you get problems with water temp in you tanks ? Don't know the actual temp yet getting a thermometer tomorrow, but the water feels warm to touch, is there a way to control this? our tanks are in the room with girls, room temp running between 28 and thirty degrees.

Chur

 

[BeaverHuntr]

Yeah a strainer in the drain works well. I just soak then in my 55 gallon rez which is just a storage tote with a little wooden frame so it won't deform when full

I had the same issue with some hydroton and i did a shit ton of research on it. Apparently the clay can oxidize and become very basic. The chemistry behind this is obviously further complicated in older hydroton and the precense of nutrient, plant matter, and various microbes. I am 99% certain it's the hydroton. The only time i see really big ph swings is when I add sugars into the Rez when running biotics. This tends to acidify the Rez. Using RO water will exacerbate ph swings due to the lack if metals and other compounds which actually serve to buffer the water from ph changes.

A little hint. If you soak the hydroton overnight and when you come back the next day and stir it and it fizzes; letting of a bunch of bubbles then you can rest assured that was the prob.

New growers face this problem and its just pure lack of knowledge or laziness. Wash your hydroton and wash it really good , until you washed it so good that there isnt any red clay at the bottome of the bucket/sink you were rinsing it in, and then as legally flying said soak your hydroton in PH water for 24-48 hours.

 

[legallyflying]

Looks like a mag deficiency to me? That first photo looks wreached, you would be arrested for plant abuse in the states.

Don't take offense but it seems like your approaching growing weed a little willy nilly. Your questions about ph and temp are extremely basic info. If your going to grow weed, then dammit, do your homework and fucking grow the dank. Don't just half ass it. You need a high quality ph and ppm meter. Most ph meters will also read temp.

Your Rez should be below 71 or your going to have to run h2o2

Anyways, here are some things you need to google:

Causes of nutrient dificienecies
Root rot in hydroponics
Nutrient antagonism
Ppm and ph interaction
When to replace reservoir
Reservoir top off system
Cleaning hydroton after harvest

 

[tails111]

Hey Bro

No offence taken and thanks for your help and patience.
Yea really need to do some reading .

So we are now soaking the hydroton balls, it has now been 24hrs and they don't seem to stabilise.

Have now brought it down twice again
from 6.5PH to 3.7PH
and from 5.4 down to 4.2

Still hoping the balls stabilise so we can add them to the grow tent, run the system for a day or two and the transplant the clones in.

but so far they just keep going up, it has now been 40hrs since we started this. Just left it on 4.7 and ill check them later today...

An now 48hrs later thank the powers that be and some patient people helping me they now have seemed to stabilised between 5.2 and 5.5.

Would be really keen to learn the chemistry behind this if you could explain it to me.........

Interestingly we changed our White rhino mother res last weekend and since then ( which they have never done in the past in the last 3 years since we have been living in this one place) the res is now swinging up, generally from 6.0 to 6.7 overnight.

Could this possibly be a chemical reaction with the balls or the water?

Have had the swinging problem with the last lot of girls we pulled out and managed to save a few they stabilised for about a month and are now starting to swing again.
Same water, same newts and same balls as when they were stable

Is there a chemical or mineral imbalance that could be possibly causing this?

 

[Pew]

Anybody out there using well water. We put on a RO and it does make a difference. Always wondered if the minerals (hard water) in well water are helpful.

Initial well water ph 7.7-7.8 and ppm 283
RO ppm's drops to 23 but ph remains about the same 7.5 or 7.6

On well water, I got a well water test kit & had off-the-chart readings of different junk in there, TDS reading 500+. Just picked up a basic R/O filter that brings it down around 50 PPM. Another poster said this r/o water is too dead for seedlings, just started on hydro/hempy, looking for more feedback? Im using rockwool starters & perlite, both flushed, and adjusted PH ~5.8.

 

[legallyflying]

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/hydro/msg100749279742.html?32

 

[tails111]

legallyflying

Thanks heaps for the link