Budget Show Down. Tea Party Demands Government Shut Down

MuyLocoNC

Well-Known Member
So I guess there was no reply possible to my earlier post about no budget proposal from the Dems yet? No shame, there is NO response possible.

If Ryan's budget proposal cut's 6.4 trillion, and it comes up short of what Obama's own deficit reduction commission recommended, how is it possible they are actually saying there is no way to cut 100 Billion?

budgetchart.gif

If they can't budge and come up with even that PALTRY amount, how can they expect the American public to believe they'll manage to balance the budget and significantly reduce the deficit in the future. It's laughable and the tactic WILL FAIL this time.

And as for taxing the rich, it's a undeniable fact that if you tax the top earners in this country, as the libs always cry for (2 million families), at a 100% tax rate, it still doesn't even put a dent in the deficit we're going to run next year, let alone touching the national debt. Spending and entitlements are exactly what have to be addressed.
 

BudMcLovin

Active Member
And as for taxing the rich, it's a undeniable fact that if you tax the top earners in this country, as the libs always cry for (2 million families), at a 100% tax rate, it still doesn't even put a dent in the deficit we're going to run next year, let alone touching the national debt. Spending and entitlements are exactly what have to be addressed.
“But it’s about fairness. Those evil rich people don’t deserve all that stuff. It should be mine” Said in a whinny liberal voice
 

MuyLocoNC

Well-Known Member
Here is an easy to digest breakdown on why the screams to just TAX THE RICH, is a failure before it even hits the starting gate. Quite simply, the math just doesn't add up. And the numbers given are taken straight from the IRS's records. So don't bother.

Steve McCann of American Thinker published data that reveals what would happen if we went ahead with the Democrats favorite "tax the rich" ideas:
The data (below) is contained on the following IRS site...: The tax year of 2008 was the last to date that the IRS has done this kind of analysis. In 2008 the highest marginal tax rate of 35% applied to all AGI above $357,700.00. In that year the total amount of AGI subject to the highest rate was $622.8 Billion. The government collected in taxes $218.0 Billion (35%).

In 2011 the annual budget deficit will be nearly $1,665.0 Billion and in 2012: $1,100.0 Billion. If the Liberal Democrats in league with the Socialists, the Unions and the Communists, succeed in raising the highest marginal rate, how much more would Washington D.C. receive, assuming no change in behavior and a general eagerness to pay more?


If the highest rate of 35% were raised by a factor of 20% to 42%, then the additional tax revenue would be $43.5 Billion, not much of a dent in $1,665.0 Billion. So, let's raise the rate by a factor of 50% to 52.5%; the additional revenue would be $108.9 Billion. Still nowhere near enough, so let's just tax it at a rate of 100%, bringing in an additional $404.8 Billion.

Unfortunately the country is still $1,260.0 Billion in the hole for the year.


Obviously by confiscating at 100% of all the income of the so-called rich above a predetermined level, there would never again be an incentive to earn above the highest tax rate threshold. So where will the Left have to turn next: where the money is, the middle class.

And let's not forget that the more money government takes from the investor classes, the less money there is in the private sector to create jobs. So taxing the rich will not help the government and it will not help create private sector jobs.
 

mame

Well-Known Member
“But it’s about fairness. Those evil rich people don’t deserve all that stuff. It should be mine” Said in a whinny liberal voice
The fact that many corporations pay much less in taxes than intended (GE and google being the best examples, having payed little to no taxes each year) shows that we dont have a problem with over taxation. We do however, have a debt problem. After WW2 when our debt was 110% of GDP, the highest tax rate was at 91% and we were still #1. I'm not advocating for taxes that high, I'm just saying there is plenty of room for wiggling.

Besides, the republicans have been cutting jobs, wages, benefits, taxes, etc behind the rhetoric "we all need to pitch in" to help the economy recover... wouldn't it make sense to tax the wealthy at a rate consistent with this sentiment?
 

MuyLocoNC

Well-Known Member
The fact that many corporations pay much less in taxes than intended (GE and google being the best examples, having payed little to no taxes each year) shows that we dont have a problem with over taxation. We do however, have a debt problem. After WW2 when our debt was 110% of GDP, the highest tax rate was at 91% and we were still #1. I'm not advocating for taxes that high, I'm just saying there is plenty of room for wiggling.

Besides, the republicans have been cutting jobs, wages, benefits, taxes, etc behind the rhetoric "we all need to pitch in" to help the economy recover... wouldn't it make sense to tax the wealthy at a rate consistent with this sentiment?
Yeah sure, see the post DIRECTLY above your last, goddamn some people are just plain stupid.
 

mame

Well-Known Member
Yeah sure, see the post DIRECTLY above your last, goddamn some people are just plain stupid.
Just saying, those posts came at almost the same time (I was writing my response and never saw the post right before mine).. I'll reply in a moment... smoking a bowl.
 

UGA

Active Member
I would like to hear where somenod you got your education in economics.

Some really interesting ideas in this thread.
 

MuyLocoNC

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I got caught up in the heat of the moment, sorry for the "stupid" thing...unnecessary and inappropriate.
 

Mr Neutron

Well-Known Member
The fact that many corporations pay much less in taxes than intended (GE and google being the best examples, having payed little to no taxes each year) shows that we dont have a problem with over taxation. We do however, have a debt problem. After WW2 when our debt was 110% of GDP, the highest tax rate was at 91% and we were still #1. I'm not advocating for taxes that high, I'm just saying there is plenty of room for wiggling.

Besides, the republicans have been cutting jobs, wages, benefits, taxes, etc behind the rhetoric "we all need to pitch in" to help the economy recover... wouldn't it make sense to tax the wealthy at a rate consistent with this sentiment?

Many American corporations have moved overseas to places like Ireland which has corporate tax rate less than half of what it is here. I and I don't blame them, I would too. So much for taxing our way to prosperity.
How have R's been cutting jobs, wages and benes?
 

MuyLocoNC

Well-Known Member
The rich are sitting on trillions of dollars and cry bitch boner is going to sink our ship.
.
Even if they are, you can only tax their INCOME, not their worth. Or are you now suggesting the government outright steal from American citizens?
 

newatit2010

Well-Known Member
GO TEA PARTY GO, SHUT THESE IDIOTS DOWN. Damn makes me want to dance in the street. Going to have me a big TEA PARTY tonight. TEA PARTY, TEA PARTY,TEA PARTY
Any body that don't want to TEA PARTY can always go to the coffee party.:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::bigjoint::bigjoint::bigjoint::bigjoint::hump::hump::hump:
 

mame

Well-Known Member
Steve McCann of American Thinker published data that reveals what would happen if we went ahead with the Democrats favorite "tax the rich" ideas:
The data (below) is contained on the following IRS site...: The tax year of 2008 was the last to date that the IRS has done this kind of analysis. In 2008 the highest marginal tax rate of 35% applied to all AGI above $357,700.00. In that year the total amount of AGI subject to the highest rate was $622.8 Billion. The government collected in taxes $218.0 Billion (35%).

In 2011 the annual budget deficit will be nearly $1,665.0 Billion and in 2012: $1,100.0 Billion. If the Liberal Democrats in league with the Socialists, the Unions and the Communists, succeed in raising the highest marginal rate, how much more would Washington D.C. receive, assuming no change in behavior and a general eagerness to pay more?

If the highest rate of 35% were raised by a factor of 20% to 42%, then the additional tax revenue would be $43.5 Billion, not much of a dent in $1,665.0 Billion. So, let's raise the rate by a factor of 50% to 52.5%; the additional revenue would be $108.9 Billion. Still nowhere near enough, so let's just tax it at a rate of 100%, bringing in an additional $404.8 Billion.

Unfortunately the country is still $1,260.0 Billion in the hole for the year.

Obviously by confiscating at 100% of all the income of the so-called rich above a predetermined level, there would never again be an incentive to earn above the highest tax rate threshold. So where will the Left have to turn next: where the money is, the middle class.
And let's not forget that the more money government takes from the investor classes, the less money there is in the private sector to create jobs. So taxing the rich will not help the government and it will not help create private sector jobs.
Really good job on your source... Not biased at all. HAHAHA they even associate Democrats and unions with the words "Socialist" and "communist". :clap::clap:

Besides that, it's a completely weak argument for two reasons:

1) No one is even coming close to wanting to tax the rich 100%. It'd be more like closing most loopholes and tax breaks and leaving the rest of the code as is (35%) or at the worst, a little higher (During the Clinton years the rate was ~39% and if you recall, we were in an economic boom at the time). That makes sense. That's something you could easily see public support for. That is not Communism.

2) The argument uses one year figures ("even if we tax at 100%... The country is still in the hole") as if the deficit needs to balanced this year - or even next year... This endeavor(balancing the budget and then working down debt) is likely to be in the scope of a few decades not months or a couple of years. To do what the Republicans want to do is like trying to pay off a credit card debt at the expense of paying your monthly bills.

Only two things are for certain. Prematurely cutting government services will harm - not help - the recovery (Austerity is not the answer) and that cuts must come with revenue increases.
 

Ernst

Well-Known Member
Shutting down the Government means all our Military stops getting paid mid-cycle.

So all our war efforts come to a halt.

The Funny part is this is the 2011 budget. We haven't even got to the 2012 budget.
 

MuyLocoNC

Well-Known Member
It's no more biased than any source given on a regular basis on this forum...NY Times/Politifact/Huff Post/MSNBC and now officially, the CBO (after the partisan attack on Ryan's budget, less than 2 hours after its release. Not even enough time to read it and do ANY logistical breakdown) The numbers come from the IRS and they speak for themselves.

Fine, you want to raise the top tax to 39%, it's a fact it will only generate about 43 billion dollars. I say pointless, but say we concede the point and you get it, what about the other $105+ trillion in documented, unfunded liabilities?

Obviously there is no way to erase the deficit in less than 10-20 years. But ending/reforming entitlements is the ONLY way to put a real dent in our spending and start doing ANYTHING positive.

I still haven't heard how it's the Republicans fault the government may shut down when the Dems haven't passed a budget since 2009. I'm still waiting to even see a proposal from that side of the aisle.
 

mame

Well-Known Member
Obviously there is no way to erase the deficit in less than 10-20 years. But ending/reforming entitlements is the ONLY way to put a real dent in our spending and start doing ANYTHING positive.
Okay, so I assume you support Paul Ryan's plan then? Do you realize that those waivers will not only systematically fall behind inflation but the fact that companies will be able to force the government to pay more over time via things like change orders (which always happen) the privatization of Medicare may end up costing us more money than keeping it in-house?
I still haven't heard how it's the Republicans fault the government may shut down when the Dems haven't passed a budget since 2009. I'm still waiting to even see a proposal from that side of the aisle.
If a government shutdown happens it will happen as a result of both parties inability to comprimise. This dates all the way back during the healthcare reform debate when Republicans - with 41 votes in the Senate - blocked all legislation put before them in the name of stopping healthcare reform. The Democrats never proposed it because it was a waste of time; Now the Republicans are using their very own obstructionist tactics against the Democrats, calling them incompetant. What a sham.
 

undertheice

Well-Known Member
to the statists in the room, the idea of limiting government is anti-government. without the constant growth of the bureaucracy they see no growth at all, only the greed of selfish individuals. whether they are blind to the capacity of the private sector to solve our problems or simply overwhelmed by the seemingly endless choices available to the independent individual, they have already decided that it is governmental force that should decide the destiny of the citizenry and we had all better just fall in line. they'll spout an endless litany of corporate abuses and regale us with the heroic feats of government regulation that put an end to those abuses, but they refuse to admit that it is the denizens of government that encouraged those abuses in the first place. they seem to be incapable of looking beyond the immediate gains of allowing the state to run amok and understanding the dangers of its unchecked growth.

of course it's just a stunt, government never really shuts down. it's just a bit of political grandstanding from both sides of the aisle to remind the peons how dependent we have become on the political elite, the power hungry animals we continue to elect year after year to shove us first one way and then the other. the lifestyles of our unresponsive representatives won't be impacted by any failure to fund government services and, most importantly, their power won't be diminished in the least. the outcome will be the same as it always is. the march toward the omnipotent nanny state will resume. it might be slowed or even stalled for a while, but it will continue. it will continue because it provides the immediate gratification that the unruly mob demands.

that massive cuts to the redundancy and incompetence of our government are necessary is obvious. that we have lived beyond our means, both as individuals and as a society, and we must now endure the pain as our economy stabilizes itself is equally obvious, but few really want to admit it. even though any grade-school dropout could understand that such a cycle is inevitable, we won't be allowed those necessary pains. we will continue to simply throw more money at our problems. we are, after all, one of the richest countries in the world and can certainly afford to buy off the piper. it won't work, but it will continue the charade. we've already tried that route and have little if anything to show for it. we threw billions upon billions at failing industries and enriched only those in a position to take advantage of the taxpayer's largess. we extended unemployment benefits far beyond the temporary nature they were intended for and merely postponed the inevitable pain of those waiting for jobs that simply aren't there. we threw away millions to encourage people to replace their gas guzzlers with new, more efficient cars and give a boost to our lagging auto industry (a dual purpose move that failed utterly), but those increased sales were only temporary and the industry still languishes. we have artificially inflated the price of american labor, succeeding only in creating a false middle class for some and pushing an ever increasing number of jobs overseas. for years we have increased the taxation of the nation's businesses to the breaking point, hoping to produce a nest egg to fund our laundry list of entitlements and managing only to send industry scurrying for more business friendly climes.

even though compromise is inevitable, both sides in this debate will put it off as long as possible. one will insist that it is their duty to provide for the citizenry as though they were feckless children and the other will demand that government services be gutted. eventually they will reconcile their differences, but not until we have all been shown the bureaucracy's necessity. afterward, both sides will claim victory and neither side will have really done anything for the people or the nation's future. we will continue our downward spiral into total dependency because that is what the loudest voices, the voices of envy and greed, demand and what provides the political elite with the greatest opportunity to expand their power. yes, those openly socialistic democrats will eventually win out. if not today, then tomorrow or the next day. they will win out because legislation is affected most by popular opinion and the mob is convinced they are owed success or at least comfort in their servitude.
 
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