VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO
New Member
What if your planning on eating the horse right after the race? lol
you would want to feed him even more, fatten him up, he won't win the race, but should feed the whole fam damily.lmfao
What if your planning on eating the horse right after the race? lol
you would want to feed him even more, fatten him up, he won't win the race, but should feed the whole fam damily.lmfao
This is an awesome thread, really almost like a textbook, an online classroom. Much love and thanks to Uncle Ben! I am about 1/4 of the way through (like 75 pages in) and am wondering about the differences in yield between the 4 cola method and ccob method? Ccob being pretty much a single top lst.
The grow I am planning is 20 plants in a 5x5 area under a 1000w hps (with a premium mh conversion bulb for veg), so there won't be much room for giant bushes stretching out laterally. UB's 4 cola topping technique seems perfect for this. I will be rotating, by hand, all of the plants daily for equal light distribution on each plant. Given that the 4 colas tend to lean to the side so the plant takes a vase-like shape, would it be a bad idea to hang some CFLs directly into the open "vase" interior of the plants during their days in the 'corners' (lower top-down lioght) areas of the grow room? And yes, a simple tomato cage seems like an awesome idea to keep the colas from leaning too much.
Dude unless you plan on going SOG in that 5X5 area your insane if you think you'll fit 20 plants in there? I have a 5X5 tent and using UB's technique I let them grow to 5th-6th node chop to 2nd TRUE node (not including cotyledon site) and veg for another month. My plants end up being around 4-5 feet tall and quite bushy. I can fit 4 plants comfortably in there. Any more and they are quite crowded. So unless you plan on switching to 12/12 as soon as your seeds show face then you'll be alright with 20 plants. BUT if that's the case then it is pointless to use UB's technique unless you switch to 12/12 right after you cut them back down to the 2nd node. Even then I don't know if 20 plants will fit as a general rule of thumb is 1 gallon for every one month of life SO even if you switch to 12/12 right after you top them you are also going to have to have them in at least 3 gallon pots. As it takes about 1 month for the plants to reach there 5th-6th node. Then on average most "Predominantly" Indica plants take about 2 months to flower. If you switch to 12/12 as soon as the seeds show face then you could get away with a 2 gallon pot. I do imagine that your strains are "Predominantly" Indica right? As 20 Sativa's in a 5X5 area even under SOG conditions is pretty farfetched? As far as yield goes on 4 cola vs ccob I couldn't tell ya as I never experimented with LST. But I can tell you this I average 6-8 DRIED and CURED oz per plant using UB's topping technique letting them veg for another month after topping and then switching to 12/12! 24-32 oz out of 4 plants! I think that's a pretty good yield if you ask me! Oh and by the way I use a 400 MH for veg and 600 HPS for flower. I know yield is also very strain dependant and my strains are average yielders! BubbleBerry and Dairy Queen! So if 1LB and a half - 2 pounds out of 4 plants if average I would LOVE to see above average!
Of course I am a newb. Seems like right around 4 weeks to get the 6th node for this method is the min veg time, and I am going 24/0 to make that as short a time as possible. I just want to give it some extra growth after topping, not much. Asking for suggestions on how to max yield in minimum time under given conditions seems like a legit (if noobish) question to me.
=OpSec420;5610175]Thanks for the answers, totally appreciated. I don't want to fuck up your thread (UB) with this debate but 24/0 is well established to cause to the plant to grow 30% faster, with tighter nodes. Don't take my word for it, take the word of people like Mel Frank,Ed Rosenthal, and cannabis botanical science in general. The stretch induced by cramming plants into a smaller space should be compromised by the tighter nodes resulting from the 24/0 schedule. I really am a newb grower but have been studying cannabis horticulture for about 20 years. Thats not props to me, it just means where cannabis is concerned I am an academician more than a real-life practicioner (well other than smoking the stuff![]()
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). I am trying to formulate the best possible plan applying what I know against the tried-and true practices of real-life experienced growers.
I am not at all saying I should put those 20 plants in that 5x5 space. The space can be 6x6, 8x8...I just want optimal coverage using the 1000watt hid. I am also planning on using mutliple cfls for side lighting, spinning each plant each day and re-positioning the plants every single day so they each get a share of optimimal lighting.
The strain I plan on using is Sannis Killing fields, a dominant sativa with an advised short veg period, a plant that is supposed grow explosively during (a relatively long) flower. My hopes are to 12/12 asap and grow 4 colas during flower like randy t-rex dicks.
Again, I am not trying to be contradictory or a dick in any way and have nothing but kind hopes of incredible health and prosperity for those generous enough to read through and answer my questions.
Thanks for the answers, totally appreciated. I don't want to fuck up your thread (UB) with this debate but 24/0 is well established to cause to the plant to grow 30% faster, with tighter nodes. Don't take my word for it,.....
No way a 1000W will cover more than 5' x 5', and like they are saying 20 plants is too much. You have to think of sizes when they are into flowering. It's like someone who plants a new tree 12' from their house, not thinking about 15 yrs later, when it's spread hits 40'. UB mentioned how FR causes stretching, there is also another term for how plants sense how close one is next to it, so stretches. I can't remember the term.
I've read Mel Franks book 3 times, and don't remember advocating 24/0. I use 20/4 or 18/6. One other thing I'd point out is Sativas aren't known for being short and stocky so they take more space. Maybe if you had a light mover so the footprint was more like 8' x 5' or 10' x 5' you could get more like 16 to 20 then. Just my .02
Daniels
Well I don't know about Mel Frank and Ed Rosenthal but this was done under 18/6 and I would have to say those buds are not only BIG but TIGHT as well. The plant itself is only 30" tall from stem base to cola top so that tells me internode spacing is VERY tight as well. Pics are at 6 weeks flower.
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With that being said on to your quest for maximum efficiency. Of course the smaller the room is and the higher wattage light you use your efficiency will increase HOWEVER the amount of plants you put into that space is also a VERY important factor. Oh not to mention ballast efficiency. Nowadays it is more efficient to run two 600W than it is to run one 1000W (Depending on ballast type) so that is something else you might want to consider.
Ya know as I sit here (Stoned of course) I can't help but think to myself that something funny is going on here? You claim you studied MJ Hort for 20 years? Yet your having a hard time maximizing efficiency? I'm pretty sure that in those 20 years you've came across light penetration charts based on distances and lumens and how much wattage per square ft of space you need to "efficiently" grow? Ya know I'm down to help but hell even if you've never grown and studied MJ Hort in specific then I would imagine if you ever were planning to grow part of your planning would be a space/light efficiency scheme?
Honestly man that is just something you will have to develope on your own. We could sit here and talk the "sciences" of it all day but when it comes to science "EVERYONE" has there own opinions and theorys. Therefore you just have to experiment and see what works for YOU and develope your own opinions and theorys on what works. I just feel if you've studied for 20 years you should be teaching me? Oh and not gonna lie. You being a "newb" and all with a name like OpSec420. Kinda scares me. Sounds like a federales sting code name!
Your shit looks sweet, 18/6 works very well for very many people.
You make some great points, good honest evaluations. I have light penetration, lumens, optimal coverage space etc all covered in about 4 different diagrams I have made up based on what I've read and seen. I have a chart made out planning exactly where each plant will be moved to each day inside coincentric spheres of penetration/lumens etc. I would much rather have 3 1000watt vertical hid with vertically staggered coverage areas on a circular light mover in a stadium grow, so that the plant-rows would be on steps matched by staggered lighting. But thats all $$$. I am trying to start relatively simple to get the hands-on fine points down before trying anything too experimental.
About teaching it really seems to me that we are/should be all teaching each other. In other words, sharing information. That is what I am trying to do, take some info in, give some info out. More take than give for me due to lack of hands on experience.
About my SN, my background does indeed involve opsec (Operational Security), and I use different SN's on many different mj cultivation forums, not using any single one for too long, and am ALWAYS the newb asking questions, never growing my own. That is opsec. OpSec420 just means "OperationalSecurity: cannabis". In other words, like Gandalf said, "keep it secret, keep it safe!".
We tend to see what we want, expect, or hope to see. It's just human nature, and there's alot of HUMAN nature in cannabis forums LOL.
Regarding light, my best indoor gardens have been 35w/s.f. (gawd I hate that inaccurate, stupid, forum paradigm). Your final production is dependent on how you manage about 20 different growth factors.
UB
No offense, but I won't. I don't recall reading any scientific studies regarding actual plant material bulk as it relates to photoperiods......bulk measured in grams, mg., etc. in any of the books you mentioned.
You guys may want to continue this light discussion here - https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-m...9-positive-effect-diffused-versus-direct.html
Again, with every new crop of noobs comes the same old questions, theories, anecdotal evidence and stuff.
UB