Birthers Unite

[UncleBuck]

dan, you just sent it home way better than i ever could.

i would like this many times over if possible.

 

[NoDrama]

Even many moderate liberals oppose the health care plan because it's too business-centered. For the most part, we want socialized health insurance. "Obamacare" isn't far left. It's the same plan that has been advocated by many prominent republicans. Bob Dole, Richard Nixon, and Romney all had plans very similar or to the left of Obama's plan. If you think Richard Nixon was a member of the far left, you have no what you're talking about.



He send more troops to guard the boarder than every republican president in the last 100 years combined. Meanwhile conservative demi-god Ronald Reagan gave them amnesty. George Bush made it easier for them to find jobs.

Obama is to the right of every modern republican president when it comes to immigration. If Obama is a member of the far left, then the republican party must be communists.



That was notorious liberal marxist George HW Bush is responsible for the first cap and trade program in America (the concept btw was invented by the Nixon adminstration). Obama's cap in trade programs are no more extreme than any of the last 4 presidents.



Due to an epic natural disaster. Not unreasonable.



Every president since FDR has enacted major deficit spending programs during recessions, Reagan and Bush included. That is how governments both conservative and liberal fight off recessions. The idea that Obama should be the first president in history to balance the budget during a recession just shows how ignorant the right wing is.



A decision supported by the overwhelming majority of Americans. It's a mainstream viewpoint, not a far left one.

Just because he's not a right wing extremist you characterize him as a far left liberal. That is completely ignorant and unreasonable.



Oh ok. Pay no attention to nation wide polling, DADT was a mainstream viewpoint because you say so! Pay no attention to the majority of Americans! You decide what is a mainstream viewpoint now!

GTFO



Actually she doesn't, but don't let facts get in the way of your belligerent ramblings.

That was an outstanding reply!

Obama should be the first president in history who not only balanced the budget ( What Budget?) but began paying off the debt during a recession. That would cement his legacy in the history books.

Rachel Madcow is in the MSM, she does what it takes to get viewers to watch her show and has her niche, I'm sure in real life she is a pretty cool person because MSM is nothing but smoke and mirrors folks its about making money and conditioning people to act certain ways and buy certain things because they prey on human kinds greatest strength and greatest weakness, Hope. You see the commercials, you buy this, you will be happy. You hear the News , man wins lottery, man kills man, man robs man, man cheats man, army kills army, buy this phone, its going to be hot tomorrow, main headline story, goodnight. Its a formula designed to make you see objects as a way to have happiness, how some benevolent government can solve our problems like it is some god that needs more and more money ( Hence peoples lives ), and dollars have real value. It's all bullshit people, its a ride and you just haven't realized it yet.

 

[MuyLocoNC]

when obamacare passed, support for it popularly was around 40% or so (although when asked about the individual provisions, it polled much higher). support has risen as time goes on and the provisions are implemented.

Total horseshit. It is at this moment been ruled unconstitutional and it's status will remain so until the SCOTUS overturns the ruling...good luck with that. And as a general rebuttal to ALL your following replies, you're relying on polls from ridiculous sources, the same liberal rags you get the belief that your views are MAINSTREAM. You're living in a fantasy world.

are you for a 'tyrannical majority'? i thought it was about the quality of the bill (which did not please me much either), and not how many people supported it.

No, I'm for a government that operates within the boundaries set forth by the Constitution. The ability of a people to vote themselves unlimited benefits is one of the greatest dangers to our society.

i have not noticed the senate and house pass any immigration reform bills that obama signed. not sure what that's about. nor cap and trade. no new bills there.

Yeah, I think you're forgetting the topic we're on, Obama's beliefs and agenda, not what he has gotten passed thus far. I'm sorry if your fervor has led you off topic, but those are all extremely Progressive.

i did notice a huge fucking oil spill in the fucking ocean, hence the moratorium on drilling.

Yeah, and your point is? So some other country drilling for the exact same oil is somehow safer? Boy you sure made a real point there.

didn't several republicans also support the stimulus? are they all 'maniacal progressive loons as well'?

As a Conservative, I'd say absolutely. You're continuing argument that because a supporting Progressive has an (R) next to his name, means that the idea or legislation isn't far left is incorrect and naive.

and didn't a large majority of americans support dadt repeal? how was that not a 'mainstream view'?

Um, no they didn't. Just like a MAJORITY of Americans don't favor gay marriage. Which is precisely why it failed even in California. But, go ahead and show us a "POLL" by the NY Times or USA Today or some other source that supports your theory. It doesn't matter, it's still a far left cause, JUST like gay marriage. Always has been, always will be.

like the public option, which he stated was one of his goals, which a majority of americans supported, thus making it the 'mainstream view'?

Uh, you must be high. Support for the pubic option at the time ObamaCare was being RAMMED through was at a dismal percentage. But for the sake of argument, even if reality was reversed and you're ridiculous assertion was correct, it's still as FAR LEFT of an idea as you can have. Just because the Progressives and their parrots in the MSM chisel and hammer away at the American public and manage to successfully turn their FAR LEFT RADICAL agenda into popular legislation (as they have done so many times in the past) doesn't change the reality they are still Far Left ideals. That's where you and your kind have it wrong.

Your success at what you do, doesn't change what you are doing.

why won't you go into that?

Just did.



i don't see why equal rights for gays, stimulus money for infrastructure, time to inspect blowout preventers before they put more oil into the ocean and cost lives, limiting pollution costs, or ensuring that those with pre existing conditions get health insurance are those of a 'MANIACAL PROGRESSIVE LOON'. those seem to be values that are very, very mainstream.


Wrong on almost all counts. As stated above, success and making them mainstream over time, doesn't change the fact the are very, very far left ideas. Same thing applies to the reply below, in fact you actually make my point for me when you say "is now mainstream". Changes nothing, still radical far left agenda.


actually, she does not support 'ALL of it'. she often derides the president, and has been decried by gibbs as 'the professional left'.

and no, I do not support all of it either. i will not vote for obama if he is assured of winning my state (very very likely) because he is against gay marriage. note that gay marriage now polls even for the first time ever.

gay marriage is no longer the idea of a 'maniacal progressive loon' because it is now mainstream. i hate that about american politics. too many people trying to keep it "real simple" instead of deciding what is right according to the rights we all have and that our constitution guarantees us.

All of your above arguments above hinge on the exact same flawed conclusion that if the "Far Left" is successful in hoodwinking enough of the American public into supporting their agenda, somehow it is magically transformed into something else. That and the fact that some Progressive Repubs support some of this crap, means it's not still radical Progressive crap. Wrong on BOTH counts.

Obama is far left of center, to say otherwise is as laughable as saying FDR was a moderate. Say either and you need your head examined.

 

[MuyLocoNC]

Even many moderate liberals oppose the health care plan because it's too business-centered. For the most part, we want socialized health insurance. "Obamacare" isn't far left. It's the same plan that has been advocated by many prominent republicans. Bob Dole, Richard Nixon, and Romney all had plans very similar or to the left of Obama's plan. If you think Richard Nixon was a member of the far left, you have no what you're talking about.



He send more troops to guard the boarder than every republican president in the last 100 years combined. Meanwhile conservative demi-god Ronald Reagan gave them amnesty. George Bush made it easier for them to find jobs.

Obama is to the right of every modern republican president when it comes to immigration. If Obama is a member of the far left, then the republican party must be communists.



That was notorious liberal marxist George HW Bush is responsible for the first cap and trade program in America (the concept btw was invented by the Nixon adminstration). Obama's cap in trade programs are no more extreme than any of the last 4 presidents.



Due to an epic natural disaster. Not unreasonable.



Every president since FDR has enacted major deficit spending programs during recessions, Reagan and Bush included. That is how governments both conservative and liberal fight off recessions. The idea that Obama should be the first president in history to balance the budget during a recession just shows how ignorant the right wing is.



A decision supported by the overwhelming majority of Americans. It's a mainstream viewpoint, not a far left one.

Just because he's not a right wing extremist you characterize him as a far left liberal. That is completely ignorant and unreasonable.



Oh ok. Pay no attention to nation wide polling, DADT was a mainstream viewpoint because you say so! Pay no attention to the majority of Americans! You decide what is a mainstream viewpoint now!

GTFO



Actually she doesn't, but don't let facts get in the way of your belligerent ramblings.

Yeah, I could pick this apart point by point but the exact same thing I stated on Buck's post above applies to every single one of your points. Having a Progressive (R) support it doesn't magically transform Radical Leftist ideas into something else. And having the MSM tirelessly hammer away and hoodwink enough Americans into supporting a Far Left idea over time also doesn't change it from what it really is. Notice how EVERY one of your points rely on those same two failed arguments?

 

[mame]

The left-right paradigm isn't a static thing like you're arguments would have us believe. Left-right changes over time... If it didn't than how can you explain the "progressive" status of the civil rights movement in the 60's? If you were to repeal the Civil rights and voting acts today you'd have riots, and the only people supporting the repeal idealogically would be on the "far-right" of the spectrum.

If you compared the U.S. healthcare reform law to that of other developed nations - you'd realize it is, in fact, very conservative. We dont even have a public option - which btw is a conservative alternative to a true socialized system..

Uh, you must be high. Support for the pubic option at the time ObamaCare was being RAMMED through was at a dismal percentage. But for the sake of argument, even if reality was reversed and you're ridiculous assertion was correct, it's still as FAR LEFT of an idea as you can have. Just because the Progressives and their parrots in the MSM chisel and hammer away at the American public and manage to successfully turn their FAR LEFT RADICAL agenda into popular legislation (as they have done so many times in the past) doesn't change the reality they are still Far Left ideals. That's where you and your kind have it wrong.

This is solely due to Republicans controlling the dialogue at the time with blantant acts of misinformation. Nevermind that HC reform isn't "socialized medicine" nor is it even "socialized insurance" without a universal government ran policy applied to all citizens.

Prior to Clintons attempt at HC reform and in the waning years of the Bush administration, the idea of healthcare for all was very popular. Hell, even during the debate when asked about the specific provisions of the healthcare bill, most Americans approved. If you told them they were part of the healthcare bill, however, they vehemantly opposed it. How do you explain this with anything other than a partisan attempt at polarization?

Funny thing, I tested this on my boss - who self identifies as a conservative. I was able to get her to support progressive super brackets for the rich, closed loopholes without tax drops, many provisions of the healthcare bill, etc etc... And then I told her she had basically agreed to the provisions of the CPC plan and the HC reform law - she looked genuinely confused. She, of course, brushed it off and will continue to vote red till the day she dies.

Did the same thing to lots of people I know, many unknowingly picked progressive positions as well. Women seem more likely to change their mind when confronted with facts overall, in my limited experience doing this.

 

[Ernst]

I am only skimming this thread but i had a question.

Given the "red neck' vote for Bush II and this "Birther" argument is Donald Trump and the ilk trying to market to the "red neck" Bush II voter base?

 

[UncleBuck]

and didn't a large majority of americans support dadt repeal? how was that not a 'mainstream view'?

Um, no they didn't. Just like a MAJORITY of Americans don't favor gay marriage....it's still a far left cause, JUST like gay marriage. Always has been, always will be.

let's see what nate at 538 says. he is the guy who has predicted the results of the last two elections with outstanding accuracy. he is neither right or left, he just crunches the numbers.



this is something i found when i googled 'dadt repeal polls'. all of them are along the same lines.



now, i know this will blow your fucking mind. you will likely come back with some sort of strong condemnation of the sources.

but, logical fallacy is all you have to rely on at this point, as you are squarely WRONG.

equal rights are a cause everyone should be behind. i don't get why you try to make it a left-right issue.

 

[MuyLocoNC]

let's see what nate at 538 says. he is the guy who has predicted the results of the last two elections with outstanding accuracy. he is neither right or left, he just crunches the numbers.

View attachment 1571029

this is something i found when i googled 'dadt repeal polls'. all of them are along the same lines.

View attachment 1571040

now, i know this will blow your fucking mind. you will likely come back with some sort of strong condemnation of the sources.

but, logical fallacy is all you have to rely on at this point, as you are squarely WRONG.

equal rights are a cause everyone should be behind. i don't get why you try to make it a left-right issue.

Don't confuse my argument with my beliefs. I am firmly behind the movement to allow gays to marry. Always have been, doesn't change the fact that it has ALWAYS been part of the Liberal agenda, the success of the movement to sway a majority of the population into supporting it, changes nothing. I don't subscribe to mame's assertion that left/right changes. It may for the purposes of how society interprets certain ideas but in reality Far Left ideas and legislation will ALWAYS be far left, I couldn't care less what the general public does or doesn't think.

Each and every individual uses their own baseline as to what is and isn't Far Left or Far Right, not what a bunch of snot nose twenty-somethings that just got belched out of some progressive indoctrination mill (you would call it college) that get thrown into the overall pool and swing the polls in the direction of your argument. I was born in 1968 and what has been Far Left for the last 42 years will ALWAYS be Far Left, regardless of how many useful idiots the MSM and universities churn out. Like I said, that's where you and yours have it wrong, those of us that have been around a while, ain't buying it.

 

[UncleBuck]

Don't confuse my argument with my beliefs. I am firmly behind the movement to allow gays to marry. Always have been, doesn't change the fact that it has ALWAYS been part of the Liberal agenda...

As a Conservative...

as a conservative, you support "far left, liberal" ideas?

you intellect is dizzying.

 

[mame]

as a conservative, you support "far left, liberal" ideas?

you intellect is dizzying.

It's okay, he doesn't even realize that he conceded the principle by admitting to be a conservative who supports gay rights. If many conservatives support gay rights as well as liberals, wouldn't that then, by extension, imply that the gay rights issue has moved to the center over time?

Nevermind, it doesn't matter. He believes college is really just an "indoctrination mill"... Meanwhile, he will continue to follow The Cato institute and the Heritage foundation as if they are nothing of the sort.

 

[Ernst]

What is true is that we will always pick the solution that makes the problem worse.

 

[MuyLocoNC]

There are many "Conservative" ideals I don't subscribe to. War on drugs, Gay marriage and many other social issues based on religious values I don't share. Fiscally, I'm as conservative as they can get and I don't find it to be contradictory at all. I can't listen to MSNBC and any of the idiots populating that station for even two minutes before I switch it off in disgust. I can watch Fox News for hours, I just have to mentally tune out the religious garbage when it rears it's ugly head.

Anti-abortion...still struggling with that one, partial birth...no freaking way.
Literary hero...Christopher Hitchens
ObamaCare...Hell no.
Prayer in school...get the hell out of here.
Evolution over Intelligent Design...Yessiree
Tax the rich...bullshit
Reign in entitlements and cut off these losers...damn right
Man Made Global Warming...puhlease
Legalize weed so I can grow it in my backyard...dream come true
Public sector unions...not on your life.

May seem ridiculous to someone who toes party lines...I don't.
I read both sides of the argument and weigh them against my conscience and see what passes the common sense litmus test. I've been registered as an Independent for as long as I can remember, I owe no party my vote.

 

[medicineman]

You know what it don't matter.
She probably ment it but its easily explained away.
Thier pokeing you to make you mad then they lauph at you.
All the yuppies jump in and lauph to.
Don't give the bastards the satisfaction.
Let his policies and the actions of the far left hang themselves.

Geeze Ilkhan, haven't heard from you for quite a while. I guess you were drinking too much tea, eh? Take it from me, unless Jesus comes back to run on the republican side, (He'd definently be a democrat), Obamarama is a shoe-in. Just thought you'd like to know. BTW, in case I don't make it back from surgery, (bladder cancer), All you knuckleheads have a great life, I've had mine. Any life from here out will definently be a gift of surgical wonder. If youse guys don't hear from me after May 6th, it's off to greener pastures for the old Medicineman. May be this is my adios, if not, I'll be back with more correct candor, LOL.

 

[mame]

Geeze Ilkhan, haven't heard from you for quite a while. I guess you were drinking too much tea, eh? Take it from me, unless Jesus comes back to run on the republican side, (He'd definently be a democrat), Obamarama is a shoe-in. Just thought you'd like to know. BTW, in case I don't make it back from surgery, (bladder cancer), All you knuckleheads have a great life, I've had mine. Any life from here out will definently be a gift of surgical wonder. If youse guys don't hear from me after May 6th, it's off to greener pastures for the old Medicineman. May be this is my adios, if not, I'll be back with more correct candor, LOL.

good luck man, hopefully we'll see you again.

 

[medicineman]

Don't confuse my argument with my beliefs. I am firmly behind the movement to allow gays to marry. Always have been, doesn't change the fact that it has ALWAYS been part of the Liberal agenda, the success of the movement to sway a majority of the population into supporting it, changes nothing. I don't subscribe to mame's assertion that left/right changes. It may for the purposes of how society interprets certain ideas but in reality Far Left ideas and legislation will ALWAYS be far left, I couldn't care less what the general public does or doesn't think.

Each and every individual uses their own baseline as to what is and isn't Far Left or Far Right, not what a bunch of snot nose twenty-somethings that just got belched out of some progressive indoctrination mill (you would call it college) that get thrown into the overall pool and swing the polls in the direction of your argument. I was born in 1968 and what has been Far Left for the last 42 years will ALWAYS be Far Left, regardless of how many useful idiots the MSM and universities churn out. Like I said, that's where you and yours have it wrong, those of us that have been around a while, ain't buying it.

I'm still laughing at that statement, I was 27 in 68, you do the math and oh yeah, I had been voting for 6 years, as voting age was 21 in those days. It's the same old shit, all you guys that think you know everything, still piss off us that really do. This is a socialist country run by plutocrats, they reap the social benefits most of all, remember the bail out of the banks and wall street? The rich get richer and us poor people get fucked. Remember this axiom if you can, "It takes money to make money", no truer words were ever spoken.

 

[londonfog]

Geeze Ilkhan, haven't heard from you for quite a while. I guess you were drinking too much tea, eh? Take it from me, unless Jesus comes back to run on the republican side, (He'd definently be a democrat), Obamarama is a shoe-in. Just thought you'd like to know. BTW, in case I don't make it back from surgery, (bladder cancer), All you knuckleheads have a great life, I've had mine. Any life from here out will definently be a gift of surgical wonder. If youse guys don't hear from me after May 6th, it's off to greener pastures for the old Medicineman. May be this is my adios, if not, I'll be back with more correct candor, LOL.

putting out nothing but positive energy for you man...

 

[medicineman]

putting out nothing but positive energy for you man...

Thanks. I've a friend that had this surgery and he survived and is in good health today. The main difference in the survival rate is I suppose age. He was 50 when he had his surgery, I am 70. I've Had a good run and if I survive, great, if not, That's the way it was supposed to be. Surgery on May 6th and at least a week in the hospital. Probably won't get back here untill at least 4-6 weeks of recovery. It's a 12 hour surgery. Up untill the last 10 years or so, it was inoperable. They remove the bladder and make one out of an 18" piece of your colon. It's a life changing operation. I'm like anyone else, scared as hell, but can't show it because of my wife and grandkids.. Thanks again for your support, peace.

 

[beardo]

Even Michelle Obama states that Barack's "Home" country is Kenya. So now his wife and his deceased grandmother must be part of Birther conspiracy too eh?

Really? But I thought it was Indonesia

 

[MuyLocoNC]

I'm still laughing at that statement, I was 27 in 68, you do the math and oh yeah, I had been voting for 6 years, as voting age was 21 in those days. It's the same old shit, all you guys that think you know everything, still piss off us that really do. This is a socialist country run by plutocrats, they reap the social benefits most of all, remember the bail out of the banks and wall street? The rich get richer and us poor people get fucked. Remember this axiom if you can, "It takes money to make money", no truer words were ever spoken.

That's exactly why I said everyone has their own baseline. Far Left and Far Right is different for every person based on their perspective and certainly their age. I'm sure that with your additional years on me, you have a different perspective.

I couldn't disagree more with most of your posts Med, but it wouldn't be the same on RIU without you. Best wishes for you and yours.

 

[NoDrama]

What is true is that we will always pick the solution that makes the problem worse.

Then it wasn't a solution that was picked, it was what we call a "Bad Idea".

BTW thanks for bringing up some of my older threads, makes me know you guys really care.