im sure this has been discussed. i want to bring up a point about heat. some one correct me if they can. the only way to actually get less heat with led's is to use less watts. in other words if i replace 1000 watt hps with 1000 watt led i will get the same amount of heat. in fact you can apply this to incandescent, halide, a washer machine, computer, refrigerater, tv etc... in a closed system all forms of energy whether kinetic chemical or electomagnetic eventually turn into heat. leds are cool to the touch but put out heat in the back end with heat sinks and fans. i was wondering why my ambiant temps have not been dropping. thought there is something to be said about lower thermal radiance which is ir. this is what makes hid so intense that it burns leaves. led on the other hand has heat in the form of convection and conduction i.e. fans and heat sink. so its the same heat just more diffuse. but now hps is can be air cooled where leds cant or in a sealed room there is no way to air cool without loosing co2. so the ambiant temps will be higher with leds. im perplexed. see this is what happens when marketing confounds the consumer. i got the physics on my side though. i think. I would love to hear more info please.
Irish Boy's 2011 Spectra Led Grow (Revenge Of Casey Jcnes))
- Thread starter irishboy
- Start date
irishboy
Well-Known Member
leds do still put out heat but they still run a little cooler then HID in side x sides ive seen, ive never tested them with my old HID so i dont know, i like leds for the fact thats its the IR that stresses our plants in heat and HID, thats what frys leaves. as far as co2 if ur running a good co2 setup it should be a sealed room and leds will work fine, i dont use Co2 so i dont mind and i love the fact i cant just tuck a fan and filter in the coner of the room and not have ducting hanging everywhere. all of this has been talked to in depth on my older threads at a different place. remember seeing and hearing the led tent in a side by side was cooler then the HID on a legit side x side and the grower had to buy a bigger fan to cool the HID tent. IDK bro i haven't seen this from my own eyes but i do know leds do put off heat and others are dead wrong if they think they dont. just a scam company's made to sale leds. i use leds for quality of my buds as its been proven many times it grows better quality and it helps me to be able to grow in my 100F+ temps because of not having the IR like HID
Green Inferno
Active Member
My 90 watt LED raises the temps about 7 F in my cabinet. In a 20" X 20" area. I'd imagine a bigger one would add more heat.
No, LED produces about 80% less heat watt for watt than HPS, its more efficient at producing light than traditional bulbs (thats why things are switching to LED). But you have issues with this in say street lights that will now frost/freeze/ice over because the LED produces so little heat compared to traditional bulbs.
GLH? I don't think mike is making micro lights yet
irishboy
Well-Known Member
he sure is, just not on the web site. they already being tested and i am about to trade my 245's for someGLH? I don't think mike is making micro lights yet
yes i agree leds are great and i do belive its the ir that is damaging but due to the law of conservation of energy. that 80% of light will bounce around the walls and become ir.
this is of course diffuse, heating the whole are just not a single spot. ie-hotspot. also hids have ballasts that put out additional watts. but in actuality when they talk about 80% vs 20% light vs heat they are only talking about the spectral radiance. heat is also made and shuttled out the back in the form of condution due to resistenc of the chips tansistors etc. put it this way if 80% of say 1000 watts was converted to light it would be one hell of a lot brighter than anything currently available. it would have to be way brighter than any hid. those watts have to be doing somethng and it aint light. I know this now by querring several phisics sights and also checking textbooks etc...
not dissing the lights. hell i just ordered a few more. to make a long story short a 1000 watts of electrical energy no matter how its conveted will turn to heat. this is a fact. all energy becomes heat eventually.
this is of course diffuse, heating the whole are just not a single spot. ie-hotspot. also hids have ballasts that put out additional watts. but in actuality when they talk about 80% vs 20% light vs heat they are only talking about the spectral radiance. heat is also made and shuttled out the back in the form of condution due to resistenc of the chips tansistors etc. put it this way if 80% of say 1000 watts was converted to light it would be one hell of a lot brighter than anything currently available. it would have to be way brighter than any hid. those watts have to be doing somethng and it aint light. I know this now by querring several phisics sights and also checking textbooks etc...
not dissing the lights. hell i just ordered a few more. to make a long story short a 1000 watts of electrical energy no matter how its conveted will turn to heat. this is a fact. all energy becomes heat eventually.
meharmon
Member
Your logic is skewed. Light does not magically convert to heat. Heat is wasted energy, or inefficiency. Like an incandescent light bulb-- they work by resistance through a coil, this resistance causes the coil to glow and emit light, but by using resistance it inherently produces lots of heat (~90% or thereabouts is wasted as heat). An efficient CFL will produce similar light output but much less heat because it does not use resistance so its efficiency is naturally higher. LEDs are 95-98% efficient if memory serves correctly. Induction lamps are similarly efficient. As such, they will produce much more light and much less heat than an HID of similar wattage. For comparison purposes, a 400W induction uses almost exactly that, while a 400W HPS uses ~480, and a 600W HPS uses ~700. HPS is not so efficient as seen with those numbers (my own measurements-- I'm sure better ballasts abound) , and the bulbs operate at a very high temperature to even function properly, whereas I can hold onto the induction bulb pretty easily (though it does get warm-hot). For final anecdotal evidence, replacing the 400W HPS with 400W induction (lots more heat than LED) and a ~133W draw LED was easily ~4 times less heat.
Oh, and y not i. Hope this helps ya understand. Peace!
Oh, and y not i. Hope this helps ya understand. Peace!
meharmon
Member
I understand that trimming the tips of clones helps their leaves keep from wilting at the end even in humidity domes. It seems as though it allows the plant to suck water up the stem while they try to build roots to do it right. Also, its helpful to keep track of new growth. Thanks for the rooting info, bro.
irishboy
Well-Known Member
just seems to help all around and they seem happy as you can see. works great!
5 days since ive had them only feed with VF-11 by me since ive gotten them, look in the top right corner of the bottom of the pot those are to fat roots specially one camera sucks for those pics though.
look how happy the girls are just standing up tall and thriving, i know when my plants do that their very happy and these girls are growing fast for only 5 days.
Shwagbag
Well-Known Member
Fer sher, nice clones man. What do you run your humidity at?
I 2nd that question, and 2nd the nice clones!
I 1st this though: How long until you get to show us the new 'micro' light GLH sent you????????? I really hope we don't have to wait until after a grow finishes before getting to see them (especially since I want to buy one and like to think I gave GLH the push)
irishboy
Well-Known Member
thanks bro.
to be honest i never trip of my RH% and just go with what the weather is like, maybe around 35% right now?
it will be a while since i am tossing the plants in the tent just too many gnats, i mean allot that came from the roots organic soil, i mean its insane and no matter what i use i cant get rid of them and since they took a beating from the off gassing i dont like their growth pattern, they very very green now but dont like the pattern. i just cloned them right now and this is my very very 1st time cloning so i dont hold my breath.lol. i am trying to clone in just water and trying a few test and figured why not? going to kill them anyways.
anyways its about to be 100F soon out side and i dont want to heat up that room with the tent, so i might just wait until it cools down, their are two grows going with those lights if you Google it
I tried, couldn't find anything Not exactly sure what to google?
So you think the gnats came from the roots organic? And you aren't using anything in your clone process except water?
irishboy
Well-Known Member
i know they came from my roots organic soil. i will never every buy that crap again after what my bags were, full of gnats and PH of 5.2
you it will be just water and some VF-11 from Homedepot
ill PM you with some links
irishboy
Well-Known Member
yup its 93F* in my room already and the heat hasn't even begin to kick in and i am only running one 500w right now.lol. yup this grow is going to be a fun one expecting the room to get up to 110F*.. it will be amazing if i pull it off.
please dont say to get a A/C because i cant run one in that room or i would have on for sure. i am just relying on the none radiant heat from the leds to pull this off like i did last summer. cross ur fingers for me
please dont say to get a A/C because i cant run one in that room or i would have on for sure. i am just relying on the none radiant heat from the leds to pull this off like i did last summer. cross ur fingers for me
irishboy
Well-Known Member
another day of 95F in the room and its not even close to being as hot as its going to be.lol. its going to be 110F in that room.lol
heres the girls at 1 week under the spectra 500 light. ive only fed with VF-11 the whole time and just once with seaweed and bio roots, but just fed with some VF-11 today. not PHing with the VF-11 as it brings my PH to 6.8. it seems to flex up and down the PH range and i think thats its trick to how it works hit a wide range of PH to make every thing taken in? IDK but as you can see it seems to work and remember i am in a soiless mix thats not packed with food like soil.
i am very happy with the growth so far its seems very fast and they just love the light. look how healthy they are for already being that hot
heres the girls at 1 week under the spectra 500 light. ive only fed with VF-11 the whole time and just once with seaweed and bio roots, but just fed with some VF-11 today. not PHing with the VF-11 as it brings my PH to 6.8. it seems to flex up and down the PH range and i think thats its trick to how it works hit a wide range of PH to make every thing taken in? IDK but as you can see it seems to work and remember i am in a soiless mix thats not packed with food like soil.
i am very happy with the growth so far its seems very fast and they just love the light. look how healthy they are for already being that hot
Shwagbag
Well-Known Member
Crossed! And watching with interest lol.
ninjagaiden
Well-Known Member
irishboy, when you are going to see the TRUE LIGHT, and get ur girls into some fucking canna coco. 
. after switching from soil/other soiless i dont think ill ever turn back. wowrd of advice though, gnats do love coco. easy remedy for any medium with gnats is a good 1/2 - 1 inch later of find sand on the top of the medium.
if the gnats came from the bag (i dont doubt this at all btw, ive seen this one too many times from multiple major brands), it is almost impossible to get rid of them as by the time u get the bag from actual processing, the gnats have prob multiplied are just chillin and growing in teh bag.
beat of luck homie. Got my 290's in and will be putting them to use in a couple weeks.
and out of curiosity, what is the temp in your room without the lights on?
. after switching from soil/other soiless i dont think ill ever turn back. wowrd of advice though, gnats do love coco. easy remedy for any medium with gnats is a good 1/2 - 1 inch later of find sand on the top of the medium.if the gnats came from the bag (i dont doubt this at all btw, ive seen this one too many times from multiple major brands), it is almost impossible to get rid of them as by the time u get the bag from actual processing, the gnats have prob multiplied are just chillin and growing in teh bag.
beat of luck homie. Got my 290's in and will be putting them to use in a couple weeks.
and out of curiosity, what is the temp in your room without the lights on?