Many would rather receive unemployment. Why work fulltime when you can work on the side and with govt benefits makes as much. Course no one ever tells them they've hit the ceiling as far as advancement with that scheme. But its human nature, live for the now. When you subsidize something you'll get more of it. So why subsidize something that holds people back?
Let's Talk about Unemployment!
- Thread starter mame
- Start date
jeff f
New Member
no, i agree he was a complete failure. i been consistent with that. i give him mixed marks for the wars but thats about all he did right
ps dont lecture me on keyensian. i know what it is,
jeff f
New Member
moot point. those were actuall predictions and they would have happedened sep for 911, you remember that thing with the twin towers. yes, that toook about 3 trillion oiut of the economy instantly and that all had to be repard. bush will go down in history as doin a real good job handling the economy after that desaster. history will treat him well.
also, i would check your fact and would destroy them. you will quickly learn, this pollack, guinea, white guy will check yourr
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
are you drunk?
jeff f
New Member
yes , pretty much
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
Rush Limbaugh isn't uneducated. He's quite bright and well studied actually. He's just extremely cynical and dishonest. He consistently takes positions he knows are false in order to get people to vote for the interests of rich people over their own best interests. He's very good at it too.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
Also Africa. He did great things there.
sync0s
Well-Known Member
I keep seeing the Obama $400 stimulus being mentioned as an argument. I don't know if it's the same plan, but if any of you remember the Bush stimulus of $300/$600, you should remember that the next tax year you had to pay that back.....
The idea of increasing debt for possible future growth is insanity. Here's two reasons why:
1) You're taking sure money (money you have now, albeit borrowed) and your dumping it into possible (?) outcomes. We should be spending sure money for sure outcomes, don't you think?
2) This is no different then me myself having a credit card that is maxed out, and taking out another credit card to pay that card off to buy me another month of no payments. Then, following up by taking the original (now fully paid off) card and using that to by a hybrid vehicle, because the savings in gas will eventually in the future increase my wealth based on the fact that I won't have to pay as much for gas, and it will serve the greater good with emissions. Americans taking on to much debt was cited as one of the many causes of the great depression, but hey, those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it (although this is on a grander scale where the idiocy has leaked into the mind of our politicians as well).
The idea of increasing debt for possible future growth is insanity. Here's two reasons why:
1) You're taking sure money (money you have now, albeit borrowed) and your dumping it into possible (?) outcomes. We should be spending sure money for sure outcomes, don't you think?
2) This is no different then me myself having a credit card that is maxed out, and taking out another credit card to pay that card off to buy me another month of no payments. Then, following up by taking the original (now fully paid off) card and using that to by a hybrid vehicle, because the savings in gas will eventually in the future increase my wealth based on the fact that I won't have to pay as much for gas, and it will serve the greater good with emissions. Americans taking on to much debt was cited as one of the many causes of the great depression, but hey, those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it (although this is on a grander scale where the idiocy has leaked into the mind of our politicians as well).
After The supposed "original" birth Certificate came out and was duly proven to be a fraudulent piece of fiction that had 9 layers of Photoshop editing in it we instantly got Bin Ladin, amazing how everyone forgot all about the fake birth certificate after that isn't it?
mame
Well-Known Member
Except personal debt is different than government debt or business debt. Most often, personal debt is on something like a home or car, wedding w/e so there really aren't any returns (unless ofc you sell your car or home but then you dont have a car or home, do you?).
Imagine I own a business and I get a loan. Now, I'm going to use that loan to maximize my future profits aren't I? I mean, a business can borrow $1 million and pay it back NP assuming they dont go out of business, right? So it's a pretty safe bet - basic economic principles say that I, as the business owner who is now on the hook for $1mil + interests, am very likely to put that money to work. I end up paying my debt just fine and I gave my business more reach and made it more efficient - increasing my long term profits.
It's the same with government borrowing. The government doesn't look for profits, but GDP growth. It's basically the same principle though, they borrow $1 billion and build a bunch of roads and bridges, etc. They aren't just borrowing money and hitting up the local 7-11 for 3 million candy bars - they're investing in the future (LOL totally unintentional Obama reference). By building a bridge that shortens everyones morning commute, those people then save on gas and other expenses (it's small but think about how many people cross bridges every day... it adds up!) and they spend that money on domestic goods instead(remember, we are a service economy) . Workers are more mobile because of highways and roads, which is a good thing for GDP growth as well. The whole point is to maximize long term growth and minimize short term shocks (both booms and busts!).
Johnnyorganic
Well-Known Member
It's exactly the same. The principles of credit and debt are not subjective.
No one can can assume more debt than they can pay off and expect to succeed. Eventually maintaining the debt eats up everything else. Unless you can reduce spending or increase revenues, default is inevitable.
When pondering a budget, you should not start with how much money you WANT to spend; but how much money you will actually have to spend.
As far as transportation is concerned, I agree. Transportation is Constitutional. Furthermore, every gallon of fuel purchased includes embedded state and Federal excise taxes to pay for those roads. Not to mention permits and fees related to vehicles.
Transportation is fully funded.
But governments play hide the weenie with those dedicated funds. My state raids 25% the Transportation fund to fund public education by statute. Because it's FOR THE CHILDREN!
Makes no sense, except to conceal exactly how big a burden a worthless public education system is on the taxpayer.
jeff f
New Member
God bless america! nicely done johnny.
mame, if you have a business, you dont just borrow money and "maximize" profits. you have to have something somebody wants. your example is total folly, although krugman would applaud you.
right now businesses are sitting on gobs and gobs of cash, look it up on your cute little charts.
when a business borrows money, they do it with the intention of, now pay attention here, PAYING IT BACK!!
they arent gonna spend their money when dumbo, i mean ibama, has every intention of TAKING THE PROFIT!!
this isnt rocket science.
mame
Well-Known Member
Except that when you go out and get a loan, the loan officer has to take into account the likeliness that you'll be able to pay it back. A profitable business or a government with a vast history of constant growth are much better prospects to loan to than an individual. A loan to the government for example, is one of the safest investments available (bonds, bills). As you can see via the housing bubble, individuals are a bit more risky.
The fundamental argument behind government/business borrowing simply boils down to "you gotta spend money to make money". Personal debt often follows this same principle but personal debt is often much more wasteful and therefore more risky (examples; wasteful credit card spending... people who become "house poor").
I own McDonalds, it's doing well. I take out a loan to open more McDonalds. It costs a shit ton of money in the short term, but in the long term - especially once I pay off my loan and assuming I invested in wise locations, etc - I've maximized my long term profits via expansion. What is so hard to understand here?
businesses are sitting on gobs of cash, that much is true. They are doing this because of a lack of demand (via high unemployment). They will begin investing once demand picks up again, but in order for demand to go up unemployment must go down. In the short term, government spending can get the "ball rolling again" by making up for the lost demand from recession. Once companies begin hiring again, because of this demand - than those new workers feed into it, creating the demand needed for stimulus to then fade away in favor of the permanent solution of full employment. You see, it's all about inertia... Once the ball is rolling again, it wants to keep rolling; and as long as nothing stands in it's way (a loss of demand, which could be achieved for example, by government spending cuts) it will keep going.
BendBrewer
Well-Known Member
A really good job afterwards?!?!?!? He oversaw 2 recessions. You can blame one on bearded guys in towles if you are forced too but what about the Second Bush Recession?
You're crazy. Oh, I see you're just drunk. That makes sense.
Cheers!