About Those Beliefs You're Ashamed of Holding..

Well, gee I never said anything about knowing God. If there's a God, it's the Universe that created him or her, not vice versa. Religions are the way humans who are unenlightened inturpret the vast mysteries of the Universe. AND I do not not abuse drugs. They are a tool I use at scheduled times, determined by the placement of the stars to increase my awareness and open my mind to whatever enlightenment I may be granted on my explorations.
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
If only more people could see the damage they do by putting out all this negative energy.
Indeed, any damage caused and observed by 'negative energy' should be seen and paid attention to. Fortunately there is no such thing as negative energy, and in fact the term is meaningless. You are saying "If only more people could see the damage they do by putting out all this negative measurable work potential." You are using scientific language to describe magical thinking. There is also no plausibility or proposed mechanism of how this 'energy' gets magnified over time and space to be pure evil. Good and evil are in fact human concepts that do not exist outside of the brain, and indeed mean different things to different brains.
 
Well, you talk science quite nicely, sir. But, if you really know your science you're well aware that everything is made up of molecules and atoms, which are indeed, energy. Energy can be either positive or negative. While I do not not see my thinking, insights and beliefs as magical, I do concede that magic does exist. Just look all around you. See the baby rabbit? That's magic. See the new born baby to the Mom who thought she couldn't have children? That's the best kind of magic. The rainbow you see agter a storm, magic again. Have you never been in love? Is that not magic at it's purest? I feel very sorry for you sir, your mind is so closed, you must miss out on so many wonders laid before you.
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
You know what they say, ignorance is bliss..

Do you even know what 'magic' means?
Well according to fadedflower it is unlikely but still possible events that happen that make her happy. :)

If there's no way to distinguish between interesting happenstance and magic, then of course the word magic loses any real meaning.
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Well, you talk science quite nicely, sir. But, if you really know your science you're well aware that everything is made up of molecules and atoms, which are indeed, energy. Energy can be either positive or negative. While I do not not see my thinking, insights and beliefs as magical, I do concede that magic does exist. Just look all around you. See the baby rabbit? That's magic. See the new born baby to the Mom who thought she couldn't have children? That's the best kind of magic. The rainbow you see agter a storm, magic again. Have you never been in love? Is that not magic at it's purest? I feel very sorry for you sir, your mind is so closed, you must miss out on so many wonders laid before you.
What you call being closed minded is simply having consistent standards for beliefs. Your standard seems to be that anything beyond your understanding becomes evidence of magic. What good are the wonders of life if we do not explore and understand them? If this is the standard you have set for yourself then fine. You seem to be feeling sorry for me because I do not settle for simply being unaware, and this pity is coming from someone who apparently doesn't understand how babies and rainbows are made.

energy /en·er·gy/ (ĕnˈər-jē)
The capacity or power to do work
Energy is a measurement of something's ability to perform work. What type of energy is utilized when negative thoughts or actions get magnified into pure evil? How does this energy somehow manage to reverse entropy? Do you find questions like these to be unreasonable? Do you not require yourself to recognize how you went from 'unexplained' to 'explained by magic'? These are the standards I am talking about. If you cannot explain or reference explanations for this belief then you really aren't capable of any sort of informed opinion, and have no business shrouding your belief in science sounding words.
 
You know what they say, ignorance is bliss..

Do you even know what 'magic' means?

Magic is the claimed art of manipulating aspects of reality either by supernatural means or through knowledge of occult laws unknown to science.[1] It is in contrast to science, in that science does not accept anything not subject to either direct or indirect observation, and subject to logical analysis, whereas practitioners of magic claim it is an inexplicable force beyond logic. Magic has been practiced in all cultures, and utilizes ways of understanding, experiencing and influencing the world somewhat akin to those offered by religion, though it is sometimes regarded as more focused on achieving results than religious worship.[2] Magic is often viewed with suspicion by the wider community, and is commonly practised in isolation and secrecy.[3]
Modern Western magicians generally state magic's primary purpose to be personal spiritual growth.[4] Modern perspectives on the theory of magic broadly follow two views, which also correspond closely to ancient views. The first sees magic as a result of a universal sympathy within the universe, where if something is done here a result happens somewhere else. The other view sees magic as a collaboration with spirits who cause the effect.[5]

The 13 principles of Wiccan belief:

We practice rites to attune ourselves with the natural rhythm of life forces marked by the phases of the Moon and the seasonal Quarters and Cross Quarters.

We recognize that our intelligence gives us a unique responsibility toward our environment. We seek to live in harmony with nature in ecological balance offering fulfillment to life and consciousness within an evolutionary concept.
*
We acknowledge a depth of power far greater than that apparent to the average person. Because it is far greater than ordinary it is sometimes called ‘supernatural’, but we see it as lying within that which is naturally potential to all.
*
We conceive of the Creative Power in the universe as manifesting through polarity – as masculine and feminine – and that this same Creative Power lies in all people and functions through the interaction of the masculine and the feminine. We value neither above the other knowing each to be supportive of the other. We value sex as pleasure as the symbol and embodiment of life, and as one of the sources of energy used in magical practice and religious worship.
*
We recognize both outer worlds and inner, or psychological worlds sometimes known as the Spiritual World, the Collective Unconsciousness, the Inner Planes etc – and we see in the interaction of these two dimensions the basis for paranormal phenomena and magical exercises. We neglect neither dimension for the other, seeing both as necessary for our fulfillment.
*
We do not recognize any authoritarian hierarchy, but do honor those who teach, respect those who share their greater knowledge and wisdom, and acknowledge those who have courageously given of themselves in leadership.

We see religion, magick and wisdom in living as being united in the way one views the world and lives within it – a world view and philosophy of life which we identify as Witchcraft – the Wiccan Way.

Calling oneself ‘Witch’ does not make a Witch – but neither does heredity itself, nor the collecting of titles, degrees and initiations. A Witch seek to control the forces within her/himself that make life possible in order to live wisely and without harm to others and in harmony with nature.

We believe in the affirmation and fulfillment of life in a continuation of evolution and development of consciousness giving meaning to the Universe we know and our personal role within it.

Our only animosity towards Christianity, or towards any other religion or philosophy of life, is to the extent that its institutions have claimed to be ‘the only way’ and have sought to deny freedom to others and to suppress other ways of religious practice and belief.

As American Witches, we are not threatened by debates on the history of the craft, the origins of various terms, the legitimacy of various aspects of different traditions. We are concerned with our present and our future.

We do not accept the concept of absolute evil, nor do we worship any entity known as ‘Satan’ or ‘the Devil’ as defined by Christian tradition. We do not seek power through the suffering of others, nor accept that personal benefit can be derived only by denial to another.

We believe that we should seek within Nature that which is contributory to our health and well-being.

I know what true Magic is just fine! You can call me ignorant all you want, if you truly read and study, you'll see the parrallels between Quantum Physics and the Wiccan religion.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
It is in contrast to science, in that science does not accept anything not subject to either direct or indirect observation, and subject to logical analysis, whereas practitioners of magic claim it is an inexplicable force beyond logic.
That alone should tell you something.
 
That alone should tell you something.
Only if you stop there. If you also study Quantum Physics, the parallels are clear. My family takes our basic beliefs to heart, but we do look for a deeper understanding of the connectedness of all things and quantum physics shows there are explanations for the seeminly inexplicable.
 

carl.burnette

Well-Known Member
Apparently you've not gotten a blow job from my wife :) Trust me.. VERY spiritual! :)

She's a super freak, super freak, she's super freaky.. (Rick James quote)

Smoking weed feels really good. So does getting a blow job, but neither of those things are spiritual.

But i lost you after the first few sentences.
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Only if you stop there. If you also study Quantum Physics, the parallels are clear. My family takes our basic beliefs to heart, but we do look for a deeper understanding of the connectedness of all things and quantum physics shows there are explanations for the seeminly inexplicable.
So which interpretation of QM lends credit to the idea that negative thoughts or deeds get magnified into pure hate? How well can you really understand QM without knowing that technical terms, such as energy, have precise meanings? QM by definition is all about being precise and controlled, which is why it's important to keep scale in context and remember that we live in a world that is not precisely controlled. What experiments are you referring to that suggest 'explanations for the inexplicable'?

practitioners of magic claim it is an inexplicable force beyond logic
Isn't it interesting how any beliefs that do not hold up to the standards of reasonable doubt always want to be excused, without ever offering any justification. Also known as special pleading.
 

rosecitypapa

Active Member
Apparently you've not gotten a blow job from my wife :) Trust me.. VERY spiritual! :)

She's a super freak, super freak, she's super freaky.. (Rick James quote)
I have and you're right!


A useful exercise to explore the depth of our beliefs is in examining the use of the verb 'to be'. The to-be verbs: is, am, are, was, were, be, being, and been.

English is interesting in it's use of this verb which does not exist in other cultures. In one sense the use of the 'to-be' verbs is efficient in that we can collapse our experience of the world into universals. A statement like 'Life is tough' or 'what beliefs are you ashamed of' create associations that over time take on a qualities of a belief.
The statement 'life is tough' might have been used when one was experiencing emotional states in a certain time in their life that they think of as tough. The shorten form 'life is tough' conveys a meaning of the longer more accurate statement but at a subtle and at most times imperceptible cost. This cost of creating a universal is the price to pay when speaking english.

E-Prime

The Problem

Certain expressions which involve identity and attributes lead us to confusion in our thinking. This sometimes arises because of the verb 'to be.' For example:

I am depressed
Who am I?
He is a criminal
It is clear that we should take action.
'I am depressed', implies that

I always feel sad,
will always feel sad, and
I can do nothing about it,
'Is' and 'are', like all present tense verbs, imply no time, no space and absolute truth. 'I am depressed' abbreviates what has happened in the past. So perhaps it means

I felt sad on many occasions in the past, and I feel sad now.

Certainly, this meaning upsets us less than 'I am depressed'.
http://www.trans4mind.com/personal_development/GeneralSemantics/KensEPrime.htm
 

karri0n

Well-Known Member
Only if you stop there. If you also study Quantum Physics, the parallels are clear. My family takes our basic beliefs to heart, but we do look for a deeper understanding of the connectedness of all things and quantum physics shows there are explanations for the seeminly inexplicable.
Faded, here is one of the best texts I have read on magic. It seems like you'd be interested. The only issue that I have is he tends to put a wiccan dogmatic spin on things and I would prefer it if he stuck to magical principles without falling into the same old wiccan foofy crap.

http://www.amazon.com/Science-Craft-William-H-Keith/dp/0806526335
 
So which interpretation of QM lends credit to the idea that negative thoughts or deeds get magnified into pure hate? How well can you really understand QM without knowing that technical terms, such as energy, have precise meanings? QM by definition is all about being precise and controlled, which is why it's important to keep scale in context and remember that we live in a world that is not precisely controlled. What experiments are you referring to that suggest 'explanations for the inexplicable'?

Isn't it interesting how any beliefs that do not hold up to the standards of reasonable doubt always want to be excused, without ever offering any justification. Also known as special pleading.

My Grams has proven that all of the following theories are true in part, but none tell the full story.
Your consciousness affects the behaviour of subatomic particles

- or -

Particles move backwards as well as forwards in time and appear in all possible places at once

- or -

The universe is splitting, every Planck-time (10 E-43 seconds) into billions of parallel universes

- or -

The universe is interconnected with faster-than-light transfers of information

----

It is the very interconnectedness of all things that causes the evolution of an act of pettiness into one of great evil over time and space. My Grams has taught me how magick does exist, but the current popular interpretation of magick is false. Nothing is truely inexplicable at all. It may appear that way, but that appearance is based only on a lack of understanding. I'm no expert, yet. I've yet to reach the level of attunement with the Universe neccesary to be granted full understanding. My Grams has given me the tools and knowledge to begin my own journey to complete understanding, but my current knowledge is far from complete.
 

karri0n

Well-Known Member
uggg... the "k" has no meaning or signifigance - more leftover garbage spread about by wicca. Ceremonial magicians have practiced for hundreds of years and understand how magic works better than any modern wiccan author - and they feel no need to put a "k" on the end. Even Gerald Gardner, the creator of Wicca, didn't feel the need to stick a K on the end.

http://wicca.cnbeyer.com/magic.shtml
 
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