The Choice I Never Made...

[Padawanbater2]

We are programed to know God and to seek a connection with him, that's the meaning of life be good surround yourself with good people have a family be right with God get old and die.

Why does "the meaning of life" have to be the same for everyone?

That question has become almost meaningless to me.

 

[Heisenberg]

Your still wrong but it's cool.
What your describing is Agnostic, Not Atheist but I already explained that-an Atheist by definition believes their is no God

What I described was differences between the positions. It is as simple, yet subtle, as the difference between disbelief and denial. Saying I am unconvinced of the existence of Bigfoot is different from saying it is completely impossible for Bigfoot to ever exist. It is simply saying that I have not experienced anything to lead me to believe Bigfoot is there, is not the same as saying he couldn't be there. What you are describing is the definition of atheist in your head, to which apparently you have not given much thought.

Am I convinced of god?

Theist = Yes

Atheist = No

Agnosticism answers a different question

Do we have the ability to know if there is a god = NO

My position is that we do not currently have any good reason to believe there is a god, or to engage in worship. Only a fool would go on to say that we will never have reason to believe in god. How can we predict what the future will bring? Some atheists are fools, but not by necessity. It makes it easier for you to believe all atheists are fools because it allows you to dismiss the position. What you are describing is actually a small subset of atheists, and attributing their views to all of us.

 

[beardo]

This is part of the problem. YOU are wrong on this one beardo, Heis is right.

You have to recognize that if the conversation is to continue productively.

If you still think he's wrong, don't just say "your wrong", explain why.

I did, -I went on to state that an atheist by definition believes their is no God.-

 

[beardo]

Why does "the meaning of life" have to be the same for everyone?

That question has become almost meaningless to me.

Because that is how God made it.
If you are happy with your beliefs that is fine and maybe God has a different plan for you I will not try to convince you of his existance because I could not prove him to you because if you can not see proof of his existance in a lake or mirror or woman and a child or old person then their is no convincing you just as you can not provide me with any proof God does not exsist.

 

[beardo]

Only a fool would go on to say that we will never have reason to believe in god. How can we predict what the future will bring? .

That's what i'm saying,
Plus rep...I'm glad we have some common ground.

 

[mindphuk]

I did, -I went on to sstate that an atheist by definition believes their is no God.-

Yet your definition only includes a subset of all atheists. An atheist is by definition, without theism, IOW, does not hold a theistic POV. If one is a theist, then the only logical counterpoint the claim of theism is atheism. Theist professes belief in a god, an atheist does not profess belief but says nothing about whether the individual believes in the possibility, not matter how slight. If you ask the question about whether I believe there is a deity or not and I answer I don't believe there is one, OR I have never even been introduced to the idea of a god, then I must be by definition an atheist. I do not have to claim that a god does not exist for the label of atheist to be meaningful.

As others have pointed out, agnosticism deals with a completely different ontological problem, the problem of whether aspects of god is knowable or not, including, but not limited to existence. Any theist that claims that god or certain characteristics of god is inherently unknowable is also agnostic. If you don't believe me or them, read Huxley, he explains exactly how he coined the term.

“Agnosticism simply means that a man shall not say he knows or believes that for which he has no grounds for professing to believe”
~Thomas Henry Huxley

 

[beardo]

Yet your definition only includes a subset of all atheists. An atheist is by definition, without theism, IOW, does not hold a theistic POV. If one is a theist, then the only logical counterpoint the claim of theism is atheism. Theist professes belief in a god, an atheist does not profess belief but says nothing about whether the individual believes in the possibility, not matter how slight. If you ask the question about whether I believe there is a deity or not and I answer I don't believe there is one, OR I have never even been introduced to the idea of a god, then I must be by definition an atheist. I do not have to claim that a god does not exist for the label of atheist to be meaningful.

As others have pointed out, agnosticism deals with a completely different ontological problem, the problem of whether aspects of god is knowable or not, including, but not limited to existence. Any theist that claims that god or certain characteristics of god is inherently unknowable is also agnostic. If you don't believe me or them, read Huxley, he explains exactly how he coined the term.

“Agnosticism simply means that a man shall not say he knows or believes that for which he has no grounds for professing to believe”
~Thomas Henry Huxley

Atheism

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Portal · WikiProject v · d · e Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[2] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[3] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[4][5] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.[5][6]Agnosticism

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
C
t
v · d · e Agnosticism is the view that the truth value of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—is unknown or unknowable.[1][2][3] Agnosticism can be defined in various ways, and is sometimes used to indicate doubt or a skeptical approach to questions. In some senses, agnosticism is a stance about the similarities or differences between belief and knowledge,[clarification needed] rather than about any specific claim or belief.

 

[beardo]

If that is wrong can someone please update wikipedia?
I know Huxley was a smart guy but wasn't he inbreed and tripping on acid all the time?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism#cite_note-5

 

[Heisenberg]

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[2] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[3] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[4][5] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.[5][6]

Your post has just supported our points. The atheist that says god is not real is a small subset, a narrow sample of atheists. Someone who simply rejects the claim is also an atheist, and does not necessarily say god can't exist.

 

[Heisenberg]

Agnosticism is the view that the truth value of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—is unknown or unknowable.[1][2][3] Agnosticism can be defined in various ways, and is sometimes used to indicate doubt or a skeptical approach to questions. In some senses, agnosticism is a stance about the similarities or differences between belief and knowledge,[clarification needed] rather than about any specific claim or belief.

Again, read your own posts. They are saying the same things we are.

 

[incognito5320]

We are programed to know God and to seek a connection with him,.

I cannot say whether ALL people are born programmed to know God. Obviously, some people find it very easy to deny that God exist, so perhaps they are not programmed to know God. I can only say with certainty that I am programmed to know God. Or, as often said ... I know that I was born with the religion gene. I know THIS with certainty. And for that I am thankful.

 

[mindphuk]

Atheism

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Portal · WikiProject v · d · e Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[2] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[3] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[4][5] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.[5][6]Agnosticism

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
C
t
v · d · e Agnosticism is the view that the truth value of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—is unknown or unknowable.[1][2][3] Agnosticism can be defined in various ways, and is sometimes used to indicate doubt or a skeptical approach to questions. In some senses, agnosticism is a stance about the similarities or differences between belief and knowledge,[clarification needed] rather than about any specific claim or belief.

So now you understand? Does this mean you concede the points? This is practically identical to what you are being told.

Of course no debate is practical unless both sides can agree on definitions. By denying the validity of the broader sense of the word, you essentially create a strawman in misrepresenting what the atheist himself says is his position.

Remember also that the term atheist is actually an accusation. There is nothing else that I am aware of that labels a person based on a position they do not hold. It is the theist that calls a non-believer an atheist. The non-believer would typically describe himself in terms of what he DOES believe, not based on the infinite number of things he doesn't.

In addition to not believing in any god or gods, I'm also a non-stamp collector, an unbeliever in unicorns, I don't race motorcycles either. Given all of this negative information, you still have no idea what I do believe and what sort of philosophical views I have.

 

[mindphuk]

I cannot say whether ALL people are born programmed to know God. Obviously, some people find it very easy to deny that God exist, so perhaps they are not programmed to know God. I can only say with certainty that I am programmed to know God. Or, as often said ... I know that I was born with the religion gene. I know THIS with certainty. And for that I am thankful.

What does it mean to know god? What kind of knowledge do you have? Can you at least acknowledge what people have been saying, that rejecting your claim that a god exists is not the same as denying god exists?

 

[mindphuk]

If that is wrong can someone please update wikipedia?
I know Huxley was a smart guy but wasn't he inbreed and tripping on acid all the time?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism#cite_note-5

Acid wasn't discovered in Huxley's time. You are probably thinking of someone else. Huxley was also known as Darwin's Bulldog.

 

[guy incognito]

whether conscious or unconscious, the decision to believe or refuse the god myth and the religions of the world is a choice. doubt, since we lack any direct evidence of any god's existence, would seem only rational, but to claim a deity's existence or lack thereof goes beyond mere doubt.

claiming that it is impossible for you to believe in a god is one of those politically correct cop outs we use to deny our own culpability. saying "i was born this way" or "the world around me made me this way" display the sentiments of the self-professed victim-hood that denies the power of the human intellect. somewhere along the way you made a choice, the choice to embrace the truth as the vast majority of the population sees it or to press forward that niggling doubt and bring it out of the recesses of your mind.

what evidence? the most that any atheist can claim is that the lack of evidence has given them no reason to believe.

Exactly.







.....

 

[beardo]

Acid wasn't discovered in Huxley's time. You are probably thinking of someone else. Huxley was also known as Darwin's Bulldog.

Must have been his kid or grandkid then, real smart but weird and sickly I think from inbreeding and he tripped a lot.

 

[mindphuk]

Must have been his kid or grandkid then, real smart but weird and sickly I think from inbreeding and he tripped a lot.

Aldous Huxley, his grandson and the author of Brave New World I suspect. He got his wife to inject him with LSD when he was on his death bed.

 

[Farfenugen]

I am my own god. And I know where I am going when I kick off this plane. I've no need ot cram it down anyone's throat or go around preaching to justify my beliefs or to garner new recruits in order to vindicate my beliefs. Some religions are mass hysteria, filled with all things nutjobbery, including torture, beheadings, honour killings and strapping a bomb to one's self in order to take out as many people just so they'll be at the front of the line when some desert wanderer hands out the 21 virgins (personally I'd rather have 2 experienced gals than a bunch of hopeless know-nothings). It's all a bunch of silly nonsense anyway.

Thankfully I grew up with common sense parents, who left it up to us to figure out whatwherewhowhenwhy to believe in.

bla bla bla amen & krishna or whatever you want to call it

time for a veil of nature's aether to inhabit my brain now

 

[Padawanbater2]

I always found that pretty interesting, how the religious condemn sexual acts here on Earth but sexual gratification is one of the main motivations for belief. Hypocrites much? :/

 

[mindphuk]

Beardo, why no response to the claims that you inaccurately define atheism and agnosticism? You disappeared from this thread with no acknowledgement or rebuttal. I just hope you don't show up later in another thread claiming the same things about atheism and agnosticism as if you were never informed of the facts as others have done... UTI, are you listening?