Led Users Unite!

[mattman]

Here are some pic of my two 600 Blackstar LED's (348watts actual draw) in action. The strains are pure Kush and sage n sour in a Stinkbud aero/nft system. The plants are 14 day in flower right now.
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nice bro, I have two 100 blackstars atm, love them. They put out absolutley NO HEAT and the babies I have under them grow much faster than the other ladies. Add some cfls for side lighting, LEDS penetration is still not that great, just excellent PAR.

 

[newworldicon]

Pretty sure GLH is saying to keep the 500s at least 24 inches away based on the new lab results, I guess it was stronger than they thought. Although its said that there are some growing at 18in or less without issue, but I sure wouldn't drop it less than 2ft. I don't even lower my 2011 395w GLH to less than 18in now (though I did flower hps grown plants at 12in without issue). I agree more lights is better than a big one, if a space is 4x4 or more you should go multiple panels. 180w GLH would be my first choice, with 240* (140w) blackstars being my 2nd choice

My problem is I have sent emails for a week now to pro grow and no response, it would be nice to hear from the horses mouth what they have been doing to get equal results from their 550W vs. 750W HID. " He said 750 not the claimed 1000W on the website"

This next grow I will try the light at 24" above the six plants and see how we go. I firmly believe it is possible to get good yields from the single panel I just have to understand which approach is best.

 

[bmf725]

I've been reading more and more that a light mover is the way to go, nobody seems to touch on the reasoning why though, why do you want to get one?

well I plant on running 3 stink bud systems at one time with 2 blackstar 600's possibly add a 3rd one but I just dont have the money right now. The move that I bought it adjustable so I can move it 18" or 7 feet. I was thinking about mounting a few 4ft T5 fixtures to the wall and hanging CFL'S all over the perimeter of the cage. Oh and I read somewhere people saying the blackstars will fail because of no finned heat sink and just a flat aluminum plate. I can tell you this I have a Infrared digital thermometer(not the cheap ones I paid $400 for this one) and the aluminum plate sits at 85 degrees Fahrenheit all the time and pointed directly at the business end of the light it 97 degrees Fahrenheit.

 

[bmf725]

As a product designer I have been wondering for some time why the larger panels are not designed pyhsically larger, everyone seems to want to focus on placing the diodes in a small surface area, I have not heard of any manufacturer working on different spacings.

I don't know if you have already come across this but check this light out they seem to have much more spacing between led's then most other models. http://shop.haightsolidstate.com/Haight-Solid-State-PPF-1600-LED-Grow-light-PPF-1600.htm

 

[BlackMesa]

I don't know if you have already come across this but check this light out they seem to have much more spacing between led's then most other models. http://shop.haightsolidstate.com/Haight-Solid-State-PPF-1600-LED-Grow-light-PPF-1600.htm

Very interesting, The thing uses 5w & 6w diodes and appears to have no fans for cooling but the entire backside appears to be a finned heatsink. I'll keep and eye on that unit for being so different then the norm.

As far as Blackstars not having a finned heatsink, I'm not sure if it's needed at least for the 240w panels that I have purchased. My Blackstar has multiple holes in the sheet of aluminium so not sure if I have a revised unit but I will eventualy get around to attaching a temp monitoring lead to the heatsink and see if there is a potential issue or not. It does however look incredibly easy to mod but like I said, no clue if it's even needed.

 

[ColoradoLove]

What is the forum you mention? also I am beggining to wonder if the comfort zone on the bigger panels means they need to be higher to the canopy, does this forum cover any of this?

Yo click this, it'll link you to the post you want. -----> https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/240615-led-users-unite-100.html#post5914070

It has the light hanging height copied from the Bubbleponics forum that Mike frequents. It's definitely worth prowling over there. They've got several people running GLH 500's and a couple 290's and a couple people trialing their new 100w UFOs.

 

[newworldicon]

Yo click this, it'll link you to the post you want. -----> https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/240615-led-users-unite-100.html#post5914070

It has the light hanging height copied from the Bubbleponics forum that Mike frequents. It's definitely worth prowling over there. They've got several people running GLH 500's and a couple 290's and a couple people trialing their new 100w UFOs.

Bit confused by your link, it flips between page 100 and 398. which page is it on exactly plz

EDIT: got it, I actually read this before, thanks.

 

[ColoradoLove]

Ha my posts per page is maxed out so this whole thread is only 102 pages for me. That's why I usually go by post #

 

[BlackMesa]

I wrote this up and made it a thread which was a mistake and should have just posted it in here:

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/447660-using-multiple-led-panels-vs.html

It's an explanation of why 2 smaller panels should be able to yield more then a higher single wattage panel by a decent amount using less watts. Any thoughts?

 

[newworldicon]

I don't know if you have already come across this but check this light out they seem to have much more spacing between led's then most other models. http://shop.haightsolidstate.com/Haight-Solid-State-PPF-1600-LED-Grow-light-PPF-1600.htm

I have seen these before but if I remember correctly they were running their chipsets much lower than current models do so were in essense quite tame. I saw a side by side grow where the solid was outgunned thoroughly. Still a very cool looking panel though, I wouldn't by surprised if they bring out a stellar unit in years to come. You should check out the platinum XL from black dog LED....http://www.blackdogled.com/products

 

[newworldicon]

I wrote this up and made it a thread which was a mistake and should have just posted it in here:

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/447660-using-multiple-led-panels-vs.html

It's an explanation of why 2 smaller panels should be able to yield more then a higher single wattage panel by a decent amount using less watts. Any thoughts?

I responded on the LED forum to this same thread you started, what do you reckon about the news that Mike delivered regarding the larger panels he ran in testing and found that the sweet spot was around the 24-28 inch height and out produced the ones at 14-18 inches. In essence that should make the core sweet spot a slightly bigger size. I think that because we are all used to the idea with HID that the closer the more light but that was because HPS light is so utterly crap and different whereas with LED you are hitting the near perfect peaks of absorption possible in chlorophyl production so taking into consideration the quality of the light it would make sense that their would be room in the distance you have your panels to the canopy. The sweet spot might well be further away. I still think we as users are still not understanding entirely the relationship of intensity between LED light and our plants.

I am now doing a run of 6 plants trained for 4-8 colas on each and will run the panel at 24 inches to the canopy throughout.

 

[bmf725]

Well guys my light rail came in today and I spent most of the after noon hanging and setting this thing up. I cut a piece of aluminum stock to connect the extra trolley to the motor so I can have both light moving. I can already tell a difference on the branches near the edges that didn't get the (direct sweet spot) before. I plan on buying one of the new 357 magnums when they come out in October and hanging that on the 3rd trolley and adding another 3 foot section of rail. Check it out this thing is sweet.

My perpetual harvest setup Clone/Veg room and flower room looking in from the main entrance door

 

[nmate2oo2]

thinking on getting a blackstar again but don't have much room so what's the recommended distance on a 240 blackstar during flowering...6 inches, 8 inches, 12 inches or more...anyone...?

 

[Gary Busey]

10" to 14" from the tops of the plants, with a 20" x 30" to a 24" x 36" footprint (4-6 square foot)

thinking on getting a blackstar again but don't have much room so what's the recommended distance on a 240 blackstar during flowering...6 inches, 8 inches, 12 inches or more...anyone...?

 

[tree skwurel]

i dont think hid is better or truley gives bigger buds the thing is that most hid grower never try led just look at the lumen output and think wtf but you just have to know how to use leds

1. leds produce little to no heat for better tempature control which also means you can hang them closer to keep stretching at a minimum

2. leds use 1/3 of the power so they save on elcetricity bills

3. they last for 10 years without bulb replacement.

one think also though is leds tend to have poor penetration so i recomend scrog growing for maximum yield

4. lastly is the color spectrum wanted by chlorophyl in cannabis around 640nm to 66nm is what they like for flowering and more of a blue for vegging.
-most led brand name grows lights are sold at chooseable spectrums appropriate for cannabis

i would also recomend looking into the t5 quantum badboy lights i have heard wonders about them

 

[BlackMesa]

I responded on the LED forum to this same thread you started, what do you reckon about the news that Mike delivered regarding the larger panels he ran in testing and found that the sweet spot was around the 24-28 inch height and out produced the ones at 14-18 inches. In essence that should make the core sweet spot a slightly bigger size. I think that because we are all used to the idea with HID that the closer the more light but that was because HPS light is so utterly crap and different whereas with LED you are hitting the near perfect peaks of absorption possible in chlorophyl production so taking into consideration the quality of the light it would make sense that their would be room in the distance you have your panels to the canopy. The sweet spot might well be further away. I still think we as users are still not understanding entirely the relationship of intensity between LED light and our plants.

Ahh that was you! Well I think that clearly proves a point that LED's at that wattage produce more light that's needed in too compact of a panel. If you have to raise the light that high its proving that coverage is much more productive over a higher light intensity or higher wattage if you will. This is exactly why 2 smaller wattage panels should have even a better yield despite even having a lower overall wattage than the single higher wattage panel. As you suggested before, LEDs produce great elite light and it works totally different then HIDS and doesn't require massive watts for great bud production but LED's have the weakness of having a very narrow beam of coverage.

 

[jdizzle22]

Ahh that was you! Well I think that clearly proves a point that LED's at that wattage produce more light that's needed in too compact of a panel. If you have to raise the light that high its proving that coverage is much more productive over a higher light intensity or higher wattage if you will. This is exactly why 2 smaller wattage panels should have even a better yield despite even having a lower overall wattage than the single higher wattage panel. As you suggested before, LEDs produce great elite light and it works totally different then HIDS and doesn't require massive watts for great bud production but LED's have the weakness of having a very narrow beam of coverage.

I have a 1st gen 2011 395w GLH Spectra from growledhydro in a 2.5x2.5x6ft GL80 with a good 160-180 cfm filter fan that sucks in the side of the tent a little. Temps in the tent below the light up to within an inch are ambient/outsideTentTemp with temps above the light being 4-7 degrees above ambient. I'm not sure how much of it is the Mykos, but it sure seems to me that its too much useful light for the plants (if grown under it at 2 ft from seed pop they grow slow in size but have tons of nodes and branches the first month). I think the issue was that there was SOOO MUCH useful light that the plants didn't bother with growing sun leaves and such and just set to node and new branch growth. So lots of nodes/branches but few sugar leaves with most energy going to more branches and nodes = By the end of the first month they were half the overall size they would have been with HPS, but had about double or more the nodes and branches (although they were all pretty small). After the first month they picked up speed, and by the time they were 8 weeks old they were definitely larger/better than HPS plants no doubt from anyone.

I will definitely be keeping mine at 24 in at all times from now on, though maybe higher from seedlings to see if that helps them (5-7 days under CFL for seedlings bypasses that whole issue with the LED at 2 ft)

PS: I had some seedlings under cfl for 5-7 days before going under the LED at 2ft and they had no issue at all, they grew fast/large and were definitely better than HPS plants once they were about 2 weeks old. I suspect its because they grew more and larger sun leaves while under the CFL before going into uber node/branch production with the LED thus they had a larger pool of energy to grow with than the other plants who barely had any and was putting most all of it into so many nodes and branches it was half its normal size at 1 month (but with way more nodes and branches)

 

[newworldicon]

Allow me then to create a scenario for everyone to discuss and evaluate..................

2 identical setups would include a 8x4 tent with the same 2x5inch extractors in each of them, 32x airpot with soil, 32x Medi bud from seed, dyna gro grow and flower for nutrient, no additional boosters.

The only difference in these two side by side set ups would be:.............

Tent 1: 3x 550W LED panel from Pro-Grow
Tent 2: 6x 260W LED panel from Pro-Grow

Taking into consideration the exact same Tent/plant set up with different LED light set up.......WHICH WOULD YIELD MORE AND BETTER QUALITY BUD?


There has to be a point where using bigger panels in the same way that some are using the smaller panels makes more sense and I want to find that point....all input is welcomed

 

[TshirtNinja]

nice to come back to this thread and see the same people i saw 6 months ago ripping on blackstars are still at it............. i have 3 240w and 1 100w and $/watt they are the best around and use the same guts as the rest minus snake oil tactics such as "switchable spectrums" or "finned heatsinks" im not building a monster computer or growing a bunch of different things.......... i grow weed and these panels do it efficiently.

 

[BlackMesa]

Allow me then to create a scenario for everyone to discuss and evaluate..................

2 identical setups would include a 8x4 tent with the same 2x5inch extractors in each of them, 32x airpot with soil, 32x Medi bud from seed, dyna gro grow and flower for nutrient, no additional boosters.

The only difference in these two side by side set ups would be:.............

Tent 1: 3x 550W LED panel from Pro-Grow
Tent 2: 6x 260W LED panel from Pro-Grow

Taking into consideration the exact same Tent/plant set up with different LED light set up.......WHICH WOULD YIELD MORE AND BETTER QUALITY BUD?


There has to be a point where using bigger panels in the same way that some are using the smaller panels makes more sense and I want to find that point....all input is welcomed

I'm not convinced that there would actually be a point where using multiple larger watt panels would make sense over using a even larger array of smaller wattage panels. If let's say a 180 actual wattage panels has all the perfect spectrum's blah blah blah... and will light bleach a plant at 8 inches but not at 9 inches then you could come to the conclusion that 9-10 inches away would be the optimal amount of light @ 180 watts. Now figure out that same optimal light distance on say a 440 watt LED and if the distance ends up being 15 - 20 inches, using 2 180w lights should have more of a optimal coverage zone at the same light intensity or close to that of the 440. So the end result would be bigger yield/same quality then that of the 440W while using less wattage even. (see my attachment for a quick sketch on the coverage).

Now if the LED light company decided to increase the size and diode spacing of their panels to match the wattage increase, then is when using an array of higher wattage panels would make sense. Ever wonder why for some strange reason a higher wattage panel is only slightly bigger then its sibling? They just stuff more diode's in a slightly larger space and use more drastic angles on the diode themselves which isn't efficient.

Tent #2 should be able to yield more at the identical quality of the Tent #1 setup.