Question My Beliefs, But Be Prepared To Answer For Yours :)

[Padawanbater2]

Influenced by other threads, this one is to show the stark contrast between believers and non-believers. The differences in our approaches towards answering this question. How are those differences important?

What does it mean to question the beliefs you hold most true?

How do you do it? Are there guidelines to follow? Is there a right or wrong way?

Why do you believe the things you do?

How do you know they're true?

If they weren't true, how would it change your life?

Would you be willing to change what you believe to be true for what actually is true, even if it meant it would shatter that which you held to be most true your whole life?

What's more important to you, the truth, or your comfort and peace of mind?


There is no hidden agenda, no alterior motive.. None of that. This is just a thread from a guy who, dispite having a difficult time understanding, is interested in these things. Can't we have one of these conversations, just one time, where nobody argues or insults someone else? Can this thread prove it? I'd like to say it can be done, but my experience says otherwise, and I'm not saying I'm innocent of this either, but come on people, keep your composure, stay calm, relax, think. This stuff is not personal, don't make it personal. None of us know each other, what do you have to get upset about?

So this is how we do this, I'm going to be score keeper, everytime someone bitches, moans, whines, cries or complains about something unjustly, the topic of the thread at the time will be paused, it'll be pointed out, and we will take a vote, if 5 people agree the bitching/moaning/whining/crying/complaining is unwarranted, the other side will get a point. There are two sides, believers, nonbelievers. This doesn't make us advasaries, it makes us partners, working together, to answer the same questions.

I think this will be an interesting little addition to the normal stuff, so lets make it happen, do it the right way, follow the instructions, and if you have any more questions you are genuinely curious about, ASK THEM!

 

[olylifter420]

i gave my insight on another thread, but it got deleted... that sucks...

I think i will sit this one out... I find there will never be a conversation that you like cause someone will not play fair and thats a fact.

I believe God placed everything here for us mankind to discover by ourselves. Everything just falls into place for me. Im happy the way i live my life and i cant complain. I do not force anything on no one and i hear out someone that has something to say about what they believe in(in person, its quite difficult sometimes on here), i respect what you believe in and it does not bother me if my beliefs are stupid or dumb to some...

thanks

 

[Padawanbater2]

i gave my insight on another thread, but it got deleted... that sucks...

I agree, I don't think threads should be deleted.

I think i will sit this one out... I find there will never be a conversation that you like cause someone will not play fair and thats a fact.

That's why I turned it into kind of a game. If you act stupid or say something stupid, you will be held accountable for it and the points will reflect which side represents rational thinking. (not you specifically)

I believe God placed everything here for us mankind to discover by ourselves. Everything just falls into place for me. Im happy the way i live my life and i cant complain. I do not force anything on no one and i hear out someone that has something to say about what they believe in(in person, its quite difficult sometimes on here), i respect what you believe in and it does not bother me if my beliefs are stupid or dumb to some...

But, would it bother you if your beliefs harmed other people?

 

[mindphuk]

Influenced by other threads, this one is to show the stark contrast between believers and non-believers. The differences in our approaches towards answering this question. How are those differences important?

What does it mean to question the beliefs you hold most true?

Okay. For me, the things I hold to be most true are still held with skepticism. I like the way science measures things on level of certainty which approaches 100% but never can reach it. Nothing can be proved in reality, even our own senses have to be questioned. But most things are in the realm of philosophy so I take a pragmatic approach and start with certain assumptions.
1. I exist. I am a real living being, not a brain in a vat and reality is reality. We are part of the natural world.
2. I believe that nature is orderly. It has regular patterns and structure that can observed and described as laws of nature.
3. The laws of nature are the same everywhere. There is no special place that is exempt from these laws
4. We can use evidence from observing nature to learn about causes.
5. Nothing is self-evident. Truth claims must be evaluated objectively

How do you do it? Are there guidelines to follow? Is there a right or wrong way?

Yes there is a right way and ever since ancient Greece we have been learning and using skeptical critical thinking skills to weed out incorrect ideas and faulty beliefs.

Why do you believe the things you do?

Probably because my tendency toward the math and science in school.

How do you know they're true?

I don't for sure. Everything is suspect but most things in life I have an extremely high level of certainty that they are true.

If they weren't true, how would it change your life?

Probably depends on the belief but in most cases I reject the invalidated belief and not much in my life changes.

Would you be willing to change what you believe to be true for what actually is true, even if it meant it would shatter that which you held to be most true your whole life?

I can't think of many things that would shatter my beliefs but of course I would change. Humans adapt if they do nothing else.

What's more important to you, the truth, or your comfort and peace of mind?

Peace of mind would be extremely nice and very tempting but truth wins out because I cannot deny something once I learn it to be true. I can't ignore something just because I would like to feel good.

There is no hidden agenda, no alterior motive.. None of that. This is just a thread from a guy who, dispite having a difficult time understanding, is interested in these things. Can't we have one of these conversations, just one time, where nobody argues or insults someone else? Can this thread prove it? I'd like to say it can be done, but my experience says otherwise, and I'm not saying I'm innocent of this either, but come on people, keep your composure, stay calm, relax, think. This stuff is not personal, don't make it personal. None of us know each other, what do you have to get upset about?

So this is how we do this, I'm going to be score keeper, everytime someone bitches, moans, whines, cries or complains about something unjustly, the topic of the thread at the time will be paused, it'll be pointed out, and we will take a vote, if 5 people agree the bitching/moaning/whining/crying/complaining is unwarranted, the other side will get a point. There are two sides, believers, nonbelievers. This doesn't make us advasaries, it makes us partners, working together, to answer the same questions.

I think this will be an interesting little addition to the normal stuff, so lets make it happen, do it the right way, follow the instructions, and if you have any more questions you are genuinely curious about, ASK THEM!

Play on!

Okay, here I go. I don't want to shatter Pad's beliefs but it is "ulterior" not "alterior"

 

[olylifter420]

how would you feel if your beliefs harmed others? I dont think my beliefs harm no one because my beliefs are held within myself.. I do not preach them to others, i do not commit crimes or violent acts against others and i am not gullible.

How do you know that you questioning others beliefs and telling them they are wrong makes someone think twice about life? What if they let it get to them and make them believe that all this time their lives were lies?

Im not bothered by your questioning, it makes my beliefs more concrete. I know they will always be tested, but it matters what you do when they are.


People take things out of context and there will always be abusers of the system. Within any system, it is bound to happen that someone will abuse the system. the people you are referring to are extremists' who abuse the weak minds of sheep that have nothing to follow or no one to lead them. Enlightened by the lies of these individuals, these so called sheep will be willing to do anything in the name of whoever they supposedly follow.

What i am referring to is the many great people who contribute and have contributed to science or any other area of study in which their beliefs aided them in conquering difficult tasks and helping others. Just as there are bad people who abuse the "system", there are just as many or more people who are willing to help anyone out or contribute to something greater then themselves.

I agree, I don't think threads should be deleted.


That's why I turned it into kind of a game. If you act stupid or say something stupid, you will be held accountable for it and the points will reflect which side represents rational thinking. (not you specifically)



But, would it bother you if your beliefs harmed other people?

 

[Padawanbater2]

how would you feel if your beliefs harmed others? I dont think my beliefs harm no one because my beliefs are held within myself.. I do not preach them to others, i do not commit crimes or violent acts against others and i am not gullible.

Alright, but for the sake of this hypothertical question, what if you were sure they harmed other people, if somehow you were positive that your belief in God hurt another person, how would that make you feel? Would you still believe?

How do you know that you questioning others beliefs and telling them they are wrong makes someone think twice about life? What if they let it get to them and make them believe that all this time their lives were lies?

I don't tell people they're wrong, I tell people they're using inconsistent logic to analyze results, are biased towards the information that's been presented, or are simply unaware of the pitfalls of the human brain. And I don't know for sure it will make anyone think twice about life. Also, I don't just say it, I point out where and how I think they're being inconsistent so they can explain it or correct it.

The feeling of liberation when you understand you're an atheist is justification for all the lies you've been told your whole life.

Im not bothered by your questioning, it makes my beliefs more concrete. I know they will always be tested, but it matters what you do when they are.

Answer the questions in the OP oly, I'd like to see them.

People take things out of context and there will always be abusers of the system. Within any system, it is bound to happen that someone will abuse the system. the people you are referring to are extremists' who abuse the weak minds of sheep that have nothing to follow or no one to lead them. Enlightened by the lies of these individuals, these so called sheep will be willing to do anything in the name of whoever they supposedly follow.

I don't think this argument has a solid foundation to stand on. Couldn't you say the same thing with just about anything?

-"_____ is naturally good, it's just been perverted over the centuries.."
-flaws are pointed out in Biblical moral code, ex. slavery, women submissive to men, child abuse, homosexual hate, etc., in an attempt to show the one making the claim that the morals presented in the Bible are not always so moral and in fact, present some very immoral behavior
-evidence most often than not goes unanswered or, the OT is envoked as justification.. "that was before Jesus, now it doesn't apply", yet hating homosexuals still exists in droves within mainstream Christianity, and religious people seem to cherry pick the morals they agree with within the Bible and discard anything that might question it.
-now, it's written in the OT, inside the Bible, that every Christian follows, there it is, right in black and white for anyone to read. So the question of "is it the religions fault, or is it the crazy individuals fault?" doesn't seem to make any difference because clearly it would seem that no matter the answer, the persons religion played a major part and influenced the outcome of that persons decision regardless. Without it, would he still have made the same decision? Of course not. So how can anyone make the claim that you just did?

This is where you would present evidence to support your idea that people are crazy, not religion. Show me what I'm missing, show me what you see that I don't. Why do you believe this?

What i am referring to is the many great people who contribute and have contributed to science or any other area of study in which their beliefs aided them in conquering difficult tasks and helping others. Just as there are bad people who abuse the "system", there are just as many or more people who are willing to help anyone out or contribute to something greater then themselves.

If a serial killer helps you cut your grass and wash your car every weekend, do you think he should still go to prison for killing people?

 

[RawBudzski]

I thought we were not supposed to Question God. <3

 

[Padawanbater2]

Play on!

Okay, here I go. I don't want to shatter Pad's beliefs but it is "ulterior" not "alterior"

attah boy, thanks for the correction! And thanks for your reply, you and I seem to be on pretty equal ground, I answer the questions just about the same way you did. You, me and Heis (among others) would be the ultimate philosophical smoke session!

 

[Padawanbater2]

I thought we were not supposed to Question God. <3

Join the party Budzski! Are you prepared to answer for your beliefs?!

 

[RawBudzski]

Always.!. My Mind Is Ready To Expand. so where do we begin.. . Oly chime in here so I have some material.

 

[olylifter420]

you see, it is that that will always "allow you " to win this discussion. power in numbers..

I did already answer them in my own way, i dont know how to multi quote, sorry...

Like minded people will always back each other up.

I have nothing against no one and a serial killer deserves to be dead if you ask me.

and lets just say also, that your questioning did in fact cause someone to commit suicide?

how would that make you feel?

attah boy, thanks for the correction! And thanks for your reply, you and I seem to be on pretty equal ground, I answer the questions just about the same way you did. You, me and Heis (among others) would be the ultimate philosophical smoke session!

 

[olylifter420]

peoples beliefs will always play a major role in any decision people make.

I do not have any evidence for what you are seeking... The things you seek can never be explained or shown... it is a never ending discussion with differing opinions and differing beliefs that is usually one sided.

I find it clearly to be the "crazy individuals" fault for doing crazy things like you say... You can give me a gun, but that doesnt mean i will shoot you or any other human with it even though i believe in God. The individual makes conscious decisions which they know the outcome of. there will always be bad apples in the bunch


i think this video clearly states my position

[video=youtube;mOXXYEmv-90]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOXXYEmv-90&feature=related[/video]

Alright, but for the sake of this hypothertical question, what if you were sure they harmed other people, if somehow you were positive that your belief in God hurt another person, how would that make you feel? Would you still believe?


I don't tell people they're wrong, I tell people they're using inconsistent logic to analyze results, are biased towards the informa
tion that's been presented, or are simply unaware of the pitfalls of the human brain. And I don't know for sure it will make anyone think twice about life. Also, I don't just say it, I point out where and how I think they're being inconsistent so they can explain it or correct it.

The feeling of liberation when you understand you're an atheist is justification for all the lies you've been told your whole life.



Answer the questions in the OP oly, I'd like to see them.



I don't think this argument has a solid foundation to stand on. Couldn't you say the same thing with just about anything?

-"_____ is naturally good, it's just been perverted over the centuries.."
-flaws are pointed out in Biblical moral code, ex. slavery, women submissive to men, child abuse, homosexual hate, etc., in an attempt to show the one making the claim that the morals presented in the Bible are not always so moral and in fact, present some very immoral behavior
-evidence most often than not goes unanswered or, the OT is envoked as justification.. "that was before Jesus, now it doesn't apply", yet hating homosexuals still exists in droves within mainstream Christianity, and religious people seem to cherry pick the morals they agree with within the Bible and discard anything that might question it.
-now, it's written in the OT, inside the Bible, that every Christian follows, there it is, right in black and white for anyone to read. So the question of "is it the religions fault, or is it the crazy individuals fault?" doesn't seem to make any difference because clearly it would seem that no matter the answer, the persons religion played a major part and influenced the outcome of that persons decision regardless. Without it, would he still have made the same decision? Of course not. So how can anyone make the claim that you just did?

This is where you would present evidence to support your idea that people are crazy, not religion. Show me what I'm missing, show me what you see that I don't. Why do you believe this?



If a serial killer helps you cut your grass and wash your car every weekend, do you think he should still go to prison for killing people?

 

[olylifter420]

do you not know for yourself?

Always.!. My Mind Is Ready To Expand. so where do we begin.. . Oly chime in here so I have some material.

 

[olylifter420]

bumper bump

 

[Padawanbater2]

Let's try this, I'll ask a question, you give an answer, I then decide if the answer is enough to quell my interest. Then you ask a question, I give an answer and you decide. Agree? I really don't care what you ask me, nothing is off limits.

you see, it is that that will always "allow you " to win this discussion. power in numbers..

It's not a win/lose situation, like I mentioned in the OP. The point system is designed to keep people on topic and weed out the pointless insults that always seem to come about in these kinds of discussions. The thread is short, but so far I haven't seen one.

I did already answer them in my own way, i dont know how to multi quote, sorry...

I realize you replied, but you didn't answer the questions. Take a stab at it, no judgments here.

To multi-quote, copy the username (or simply put [ quote ] without the username) and paste it before their text, then at the end of their text put [ /quote ] and it'll box it up all neat-like for you. (no spaces between brackets [])

Like minded people will always back each other up.

See, you are learning how the human mind can trick itself.. (confirmation bias)

I have nothing against no one and a serial killer deserves to be dead if you ask me.

So then, it really doesn't matter how much good a terrible person does, right?

Why should it matter how much good a terrible institution does?

and lets just say also, that your questioning did in fact cause someone to commit suicide?

If my questions caused someone to commit suicide, I would feel like that person was going to commit suicide whether they read anything I had to say or not.

I've touched on this point before. Nothing someone says should ever envoke those kinds of thoughts/feelings. Words are just words.

I know it's scary for some people to ask these questions. But oly, you've seen me post here for a while now, does it look like I'm scared of asking these questions to you? Have you ever thought about why it might be so terrifying to some but to others, it's just words? I've taken the time to really think about this stuff, I just don't think that if there was a god, and it gave me the ability to think these questions through logically and rationally that led to the only answers my mind is cabable of believing, it would fault me for it.

how would that make you feel?

On a personal level, sad someone could be so weak simple questions could make them end it all, sad a society could manipulate a person into submission to the point of ending it all, sad someone could be taken advantage of and used as a pawn in their racket. Just sad.

peoples beliefs will always play a major role in any decision people make.

100% correct. Which is why what someone believes is so important for the rest of us. If something someone believes makes them act a certain way that impacts the rest of society in a negative way, I think it's the responsibility of those living in that society to correct it. I think the problem arises when those that believe feel their beliefs do not impact society in a negative way. Our own back and fourth has also given me that impression. You think Christianity is harmless and does more good than the harm the 'bad apples' cause within it, I think Christianity is dangerous and is used to subconsciously manipulate populations into acting/being a certain way, as to maintain control and the illusion of order.

That is the problem that we should be talking about. The reasons you feel it does more good than bad and the reasons I feel it does more bad than good. There's gotta be some middle ground, wouldn't you agree?

I do not have any evidence for what you are seeking... The things you seek can never be explained or shown... it is a never ending discussion with differing opinions and differing beliefs that is usually one sided.

I disagree. Remember how we mentioned in the other thread that nothing can ever reach 100% certainty and only degrees of probability exist? The answers to these questions can be found if they deal with the natural world.

Again, opinions don't matter in this discussion. What we are talking about are beliefs, right? Doesn't it seem kind of silly to base a belief off of an unsubstantiated opinion? I'm not really even sure how one would do that. You can't trick yourself into belief, you simply believe after the evidence is provided or you don't. We are talking about facts, evidence, science, proof. Objective truth, that which we can all observe to be true regardless of anyones opinion, is the same to me as it is to you as it is to the next guy. Rocks are hard, the sky is blue, the Earth rotates on a 24 hour cycle, these are all things that are objectively true, so what you or I or what anyone else has to say about it is irrelevant to what is actually true. Similarly, we can observe the claims made in the believer/nonbeliever debate and test them accordingly against objective truth. If it's true, as believers say it is, it should pass the test. Time and time again, the claims made fail the test.

What is the honest individual to do?

 

[olylifter420]

i really believe that a point will never be reached. What you find wrong, i find right or vice versa and we can agree on some things. But a true understanding or point i believe will not be reached.

I respect what you believe about Christianity and understand why you feel the way you do.

I believe in what i believe in because when i was in high school i was a part of the FCA(fellowship of Christian Athletes) on a retreat that i went on, i was able to find God and truly come to one with Him. it is a highly spiritual thing that i cannot explain, you would have to experience it and believe with all your heart. I spoke in tongue and was enlightened by this immense energy just coursing through my body. Again, it is something that you would have to experience yourself and BELIEVE 100% with your heart to be one with God.

My take on religions is quite different. I am in no way for the fucking chomo priest fucks that molest those innocent children or those fucking televangelists who ask you for 10% of your monthly check cause God told him to ask for it... What a fucking crock pot of shit! They have become thieves and molesters and murderers and dictators. I despise those people and hope they all die. THose people have given my beliefs a bad name and i understand why. Im not ignorant to what goes on, but the truth is, i live in a small town and in no way communicate with the rest of world where i can preach my beliefs to them. I respect people who show respect and thats it. you can be gay, atheist muslim or whatever, you show respect, respect is what you will get in return...

Let's try this, I'll ask a question, you give an answer, I then decide if the answer is enough to quell my interest. Then you ask a question, I give an answer and you decide. Agree? I really don't care what you ask me, nothing is off limits.



It's not a win/lose situation, like I mentioned in the OP. The point system is designed to keep people on topic and weed out the pointless insults that always seem to come about in these kinds of discussions. The thread is short, but so far I haven't seen one.



I realize you replied, but you didn't answer the questions. Take a stab at it, no judgments here.

To multi-quote, copy the username (or simply put [ quote ] without the username) and paste it before their text, then at the end of their text put [ /quote ] and it'll box it up all neat-like for you. (no spaces between brackets [])


See, you are learning how the human mind can trick itself.. (confirmation bias)



So then, it really doesn't matter how much good a terrible person does, right?

Why should it matter how much good a terrible institution does?



If my questions caused someone to commit suicide, I would feel like that person was going to commit suicide whether they read anything I had to say or not.

I've touched on this point before. Nothing someone says should ever envoke those kinds of thoughts/feelings. Words are just words.

I know it's scary for some people to ask these questions. But oly, you've seen me post here for a while now, does it look like I'm scared of asking these questions to you? Have you ever thought about why it might be so terrifying to some but to others, it's just words? I've taken the time to really think about this stuff, I just don't think that if there was a god, and it gave me the ability to think these questions through logically and rationally that led to the only answers my mind is cabable of believing, it would fault me for it.



On a personal level, sad someone could be so weak simple questions could make them end it all, sad a society could manipulate a person into submission to the point of ending it all, sad someone could be taken advantage of and used as a pawn in their racket. Just sad.



100% correct. Which is why what someone believes is so important for the rest of us. If something someone believes makes them act a certain way that impacts the rest of society in a negative way, I think it's the responsibility of those living in that society to correct it. I think the problem arises when those that believe feel their beliefs do not impact society in a negative way. Our own back and fourth has also given me that impression. You think Christianity is harmless and does more good than the harm the 'bad apples' cause within it, I think Christianity is dangerous and is used to subconsciously manipulate populations into acting/being a certain way, as to maintain control and the illusion of order.

That is the problem that we should be talking about. The reasons you feel it does more good than bad and the reasons I feel it does more bad than good. There's gotta be some middle ground, wouldn't you agree?



I disagree. Remember how we mentioned in the other thread that nothing can ever reach 100% certainty and only degrees of probability exist? The answers to these questions can be found if they deal with the natural world.

Again, opinions don't matter in this discussion. What we are talking about are beliefs, right? Doesn't it seem kind of silly to base a belief off of an unsubstantiated opinion? I'm not really even sure how one would do that. You can't trick yourself into belief, you simply believe after the evidence is provided or you don't. We are talking about facts, evidence, science, proof. Objective truth, that which we can all observe to be true regardless of anyones opinion, is the same to me as it is to you as it is to the next guy. Rocks are hard, the sky is blue, the Earth rotates on a 24 hour cycle, these are all things that are objectively true, so what you or I or what anyone else has to say about it is irrelevant to what is actually true. Similarly, we can observe the claims made in the believer/nonbeliever debate and test them accordingly against objective truth. If it's true, as believers say it is, it should pass the test. Time and time again, the claims made fail the test.

What is the honest individual to do?

 

[Farfenugen]

Believing in god (any god, diety, fruitloop wandering desert hippie) has caused lots of deaths and destruction in the past as it does today, personally I could care shitless what people think of what I believe in or not, nor do I care what other people believe in, providing it isn't a fundeMENTAL law or any rule or regulation that dictates someone or any group of people must be killed just for the sake of a belief or non-belief in a religion. And so far we still live in such a time that has all this nonsense going on, political correctness run amok, laws being passed in favour of special interest groups (including religious laws, Sharia for example), as well having to feel guilty for being a non-believer.

When (organized) religion is no longer in control of society, that society will move on to a better era of understanding, such as scientific, environmental and common sense prevailing over living in a world where it is the norm.

 

[mindphuk]

Oly, you have at least a half dozen posts in this thread and you haven't even attempted to answer the questions in the OP. Why don't you at least try? The OP made no mention of god or religion as the same standards should be applied to all beliefs, unless for some reason you think belief in god should be excepted from your normal cognitive filtering process. If THAT is a belief of yours, I would really like to know why.

 

[Heisenberg]

What does it mean to question the beliefs you hold most true?
All beliefs should be questioned. The beliefs you hold most true should be the most questioned, since apparently they have been around the longest. Questioning your beliefs simply means attempting to validate them. It means justifying your confidence via testing. The beliefs you hold are a reflection of your thinking and understanding of your place in the world. It is an indication of how you interpret and handle life. I do not want my beliefs to show cowardice, prejudice, sloppiness, inconsistency or irresponsibility, if for no other reason than that those traits often lead to false conclusions.


How do you do it? Are there guidelines to follow? Is there a right or wrong way?
You apply systematic and consistent doubt without allowing yourself personal prejudice. This requires making yourself aware of common reasoning mistakes and being intimately familiar with the subject. If you are to examine computer code and search for mistakes, you have to be aware the programming structure that makes the code valid (that which makes the logic of the code function). You can not do this without first understanding the code. Most people do not understand their own programming, or the inherit mistakes that programming is prone to. Even if you completely understand the code, many programmers can still overlook mistakes. That is why it's important to have your peers review your conclusions, no matter how confident you are. In computers we have an easy time because we can simply have a different piece of software check our code for mistakes. In real life we do not have this luxury, and must depend on others.

Why do you believe the things you do?
Because I have thought about them carefully and thoroughly, while always looking for errors, and then I have submitted them for peer review so that others can search for errors. When I believe something it is the same as saying "I have been unable to find fault with this conclusion".

How do you know they're true?
I can be reasonably confident they are true because I have agreed on a system of standards that are designed to carefully, thoroughly, and consistently apply doubt to evidence, reasoning, and results, and these beliefs have survived that doubt. This process is labeled skepticism. Skeptical answers are always predicated on the idea that new evidence or information requires the entire doubt process to begin again. However it is important to distinguish between reasonable doubt and general distrust.

If they weren't true, how would it change your life?
It would help me identify a mistake in my thinking which would improve on other areas of belief. Often times that mistake is simply being uninformed or misinformed. One of the earliest things I learned was, check your facts.

Would you be willing to change what you believe to be true for what actually is true, even if it meant it would shatter that which you held to be most true your whole life?
As a matter of course.

What's more important to you, the truth, or your comfort and peace of mind? In my world, truth trumps all. I wish to understand reality as clearly as possible, and I rarely find personal comfort in reality. My satisfaction comes from understanding.

 

[Padawanbater2]

What does it mean to question the beliefs you hold most true?
All beliefs should be questioned. The beliefs you hold most true should be the most questioned, since apparently they have been around the longest. Questioning your beliefs simply means attempting to validate them. It means justifying your confidence via testing. The beliefs you hold are a reflection of your thinking and understanding of your place in the world. It is an indication of how you interpret and handle life. I do not want my beliefs to show cowardice, prejudice, sloppiness, inconsistency or irresponsibility, if for no other reason than that those traits often lead to false conclusions.


How do you do it? Are there guidelines to follow? Is there a right or wrong way?
You apply systematic and consistent doubt without allowing yourself personal prejudice. This requires making yourself aware of common reasoning mistakes and being intimately familiar with the subject. If you are to examine computer code and search for mistakes, you have to be aware the programming structure that makes the code valid (that which makes the logic of the code function). You can not do this without first understanding the code. Most people do not understand their own programming, or the inherit mistakes that programming is prone to. Even if you completely understand the code, many programmers can still overlook mistakes. That is why it's important to have your peers review your conclusions, no matter how confident you are. In computers we have an easy time because we can simply have a different piece of software check our code for mistakes. In real life we do not have this luxury, and must depend on others.

Why do you believe the things you do?
Because I have thought about them carefully and thoroughly, while always looking for errors, and then I have submitted them for peer review so that others can search for errors. When I believe something it is the same as saying "I have been unable to find fault with this conclusion".

How do you know they're true?
I can be reasonably confident they are true because I have agreed on a system of standards that are designed to carefully, thoroughly, and consistently apply doubt to evidence, reasoning, and logic, and these beliefs have survived that doubt. This process is labeled skepticism. Skeptical answers are always predicated on the idea that new evidence or information requires the entire doubt process to begin again. However it is important to distinguish between reasonable doubt and general distrust.

If they weren't true, how would it change your life?
It would help me identify a mistake in my thinking which would improve on other areas of belief. Often times that mistake is simply being uninformed or misinformed. One of the earliest things I learned was, check your facts.

Would you be willing to change what you believe to be true for what actually is true, even if it meant it would shatter that which you held to be most true your whole life?
As a matter of course.

What's more important to you, the truth, or your comfort and peace of mind? In my world, truth trumps all. I wish to understand reality as clearly as possible, and I rarely find personal comfort in reality. My satisfaction comes from understanding.

Great reply Heis! Using consistent logic to deal with all issues without prejudice is a key to finding the truth. I am glad I have the opportunity to learn from you.

This is exactly what I want you to do oly, just what Heis did. I have a feeling that when you ask yourself these questions, more questions will come, when they do, post them, we're here to help you answer them.