IOWA: Student Dies After Gay Bashing

undertheice

Well-Known Member
if i hit someone with my car and kill them, it is a more heinous crime if i planned it all out to look like an accident versus if it happened purely by accident.
your example has nothing to do with the reasoning behind the crime, but is a matter of intent. intending to do someone harm is a far worse crime than that same harm unintentionally inflicted, though the results may be the same. do we consider a crime of greed more heinous than one committed out of jealousy?
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
So it is thought that is key after all.

Pre-mediation determines the level of the crime. And all of those elements are present WITHOUT a special fixation on the SPECIFIC thought behind it. Hate crimes target THOUGHTS the government finds unacceptable.

And words? Do you REALLY want to go down that road?

An outspoken White Supremacist ACCIDENTALLY strikes and kills a minority with his automobile.

Hate crime?

Based on your rationale, a case could be made.
hate crimes do not target thoughts. no one has ever been arrested for thinking something hateful. hate crimes target thoughts put into action.

as far as the outspoken white supremacist, unless he was busy shouting racial epithets at the time he accidentally struck the minority, no case could be made.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
your example has nothing to do with the reasoning behind the crime, but is a matter of intent. intending to do someone harm is a far worse crime than that same harm unintentionally inflicted, though the results may be the same. do we consider a crime of greed more heinous than one committed out of jealousy?
killing a man to rob him is seen as more heinous than killing a man because he fucked your wife.

and hate crimes are a matter of intent and motive as well. i find a crime more heinous if the motive or intent had to do with wanting to harm someone based on the fact that they dislike the skin color (or whatever other factor) of the victim.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
i have no opinion over whether this particular incident was a hate crime or not, i was rebutting nodrama and reminding him that hate crimes can apply to anyone.

and a thought crime ceases to be a thought crime when put into action.
Rebuttal noted, BTW you contradict yourself when you say
UB said:
no one has ever been arrested for thinking something hateful.

 

undertheice

Well-Known Member
killing a man to rob him is seen as more heinous than killing a man because he fucked your wife.
what you are talking about are multiple crimes, each of which are seen as aggravating factors in the others. the intent of hate crimes legislation is to make the act of thinking unacceptable thoughts a crime in itself.
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
what you are talking about are multiple crimes, each of which are seen as aggravating factors in the others. the intent of hate crimes legislation is to make the act of thinking unacceptable thoughts a crime in itself.
not true unless you can show me someone arrested just for a thought...link please
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
what you are talking about are multiple crimes, each of which are seen as aggravating factors in the others. the intent of hate crimes legislation is to make the act of thinking unacceptable thoughts a crime in itself.
thinking as a crime?

LOL!

better put on your tin foil hat so that the gubbmint can't discern the contents of your mind.

:clap:
 

undertheice

Well-Known Member
not true unless you can show me someone arrested just for a thought...
i'd expected buck to be the one to play this silly little game and i notice he did chime in right after you, disregarding justifiable fears as fantasies of the tin foil hat brigade. though it is considered a secondary offense, the fact remains that the thought is considered an offense in itself. we are already punishing people for their thoughts, though they must commit another crime in order for the state to proceed against them. the precedent has been set that the state may punish people for their thoughts.

though you may consider it farfetched that we might be arrested for our thoughts and i certainly hope you're correct, the jump from secondary offense to primary offense is not so great as making something illegal in the first place. seat belt laws are a prefect example of this. every state in the union except new hampshire presently has a law requiring seatbelts be worn. of the thirty states in which it is considered a primary offense, it began as a secondary offense in all but eight. the precedent had been set that it was a crime and, in law, precedent is of paramount importance.

the greatest crime of liberal methodology is that it fails to take into account what each bit of regulation may lead to. each new law that is passed or restriction put in place inexorable leads to another and then another and then another..... it is presupposed that the state will keep the people's best interests in mind, but government's aim, like that of any entity, is always its own growth and the expansion of its influence. the naive belief that the people can control the violent forces directed by the state can so easily lead to the enslavement of the population. go ahead and call me a conspiracy nut, but read your history and understand that it has happened before.
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
i'd expected buck to be the one to play this silly little game and i notice he did chime in right after you, disregarding justifiable fears as fantasies of the tin foil hat brigade. though it is considered a secondary offense, the fact remains that the thought is considered an offense in itself. we are already punishing people for their thoughts, though they must commit another crime in order for the state to proceed against them. the precedent has been set that the state may punish people for their thoughts.

though you may consider it farfetched that we might be arrested for our thoughts and i certainly hope you're correct, the jump from secondary offense to primary offense is not so great as making something illegal in the first place. seat belt laws are a prefect example of this. every state in the union except new hampshire presently has a law requiring seatbelts be worn. of the thirty states in which it is considered a primary offense, it began as a secondary offense in all but eight. the precedent had been set that it was a crime and, in law, precedent is of paramount importance.

the greatest crime of liberal methodology is that it fails to take into account what each bit of regulation may lead to. each new law that is passed or restriction put in place inexorable leads to another and then another and then another..... it is presupposed that the state will keep the people's best interests in mind, but government's aim, like that of any entity, is always its own growth and the expansion of its influence. the naive belief that the people can control the violent forces directed by the state can so easily lead to the enslavement of the population. go ahead and call me a conspiracy nut, but read your history and understand that it has happened before.
you sure used a lot of words to say nothing... I'm thinking I want to slap the shit out of you for having me read all that bullshit... I would not be arrested for that thought...now If I did slap the shit out of you, that would require action in which I would be arrested...it is the action that gets you in trouble..
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
...the fact remains that the thought is considered an offense in itself. we are already punishing people for their thoughts....
name one person who has been punished for thoughts alone.

in fact, fuck it. i know it doesn't exist.

so how about this instead: how is anyone capable of discerning the content of another person's mind? in other words, how is it even POSSIBLE to punish someone for thinking a certain thought.

buckle up for this one!
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
you sure used a lot of words to say nothing... I'm thinking I want to slap the shit out of you for having me read all that bullshit... I would not be arrested for that thought...now If I did slap the shit out of you, that would require action in which I would be arrested...it is the action that gets you in trouble..
you mean, they can't bring you downtown for envisioning the action of slapping him in your mind?

i thought purple dude said they could and have done such a thing.

LOL!
 

undertheice

Well-Known Member
you mean, they can't bring you downtown for envisioning the action of slapping him in your mind?

i thought purple dude said they could and have done such a thing.
your reading comprehension is as lacking as your imagination. the thought already is the crime and the penalty for it is tacked onto the further crime it engendered. how many people do you think you make aware of your thoughts each day? how many of those thoughts might be considered racist, misogynistic or treasonous? if not by today's standards, then possibly by those of the next regime in power. we have crossed the line and determined that we may be punished for our thoughts and beliefs. not merely as they relate to our intent to do harm, but also in reference to why we do what we do.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
...the thought already is the crime and the penalty for it is tacked onto the further crime it engendered...
the thought is not a crime. the action is the crime, the thought is part of intent and motive, which we have been considering when trying people since the advent of the criminal justice system.

chill out, dude. or perhaps go on a rant about how you can't keep up with the carpenter with the magnet on the side of his van.
 

undertheice

Well-Known Member
.....or perhaps go on a rant about how you can't keep up with the carpenter with the magnet on the side of his van.
gee buck, thanks for taking an interest. since slightly altering my business model, i'm back in the black again and things are starting to look up. i know home repair and remodeling isn't as glamorous as sponging off the wife and the in-laws, but it's honest work and something i enjoy.
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
still waiting for my link that showed someone getting arrested for a thought only...just the link please ...no long drawn out lecture about nothing...don't blow my high
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
try reading what i've already posted. better yet, have someone read them to you.
or how about I just get the audio version of your writings....

so I guess that means you don't have a link...which only shows that you can't be arrested for a thought...only actions...guess what I'm thinking right now...SLAPPPP
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
gee buck, thanks for taking an interest. since slightly altering my business model, i'm back in the black again and things are starting to look up. i know home repair and remodeling isn't as glamorous as sponging off the wife and the in-laws, but it's honest work and something i enjoy.
i am sponging off others?

that is news to me.

kudos on the uptick in biz!
 

ShadyStoner

New Member
shady..just come out of the closet and we will embrace you..lmfao
no way man I like it in here if they could deliver pizza to my closet I would never leave

Did I mention you by name or indicate in any way that I was referring to you? Have you by chance gleaned anything constructive in what wiseguy has posted so far or are you too busy trying to find a reason to be offended?
You couldn't offend me if you tried
 
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