$100 to whoever can help me fix my hydro problem !! Not an easy problem ..

D

dllhg

Member
Here is my quick history. Have grown soil/soiless for 5 years. Went to Hydro Ebb and flow in hydroton two years ago with great success and never looked back. Has ALWAYS gone without a hitch. That is untill the last 3-4 months :-(

Plants are put into flower looking just fine. Problems become obvious at the 2 week mark very obvious by 3 weeks. The plants show ZERO defeciency. They remain nice and green, stretch like normal. Leaves look perfect, no curling no discoloring at all. Problem; 30-50% of the plants get stunted budwise. They dont exhibit any hairs and the bud itself is maybe 25% of the other plants that are ok. :wall: Sometimes a few will come out of it enough to grow but will end up with 30-40% of the yield. Generally though I have to just toss out all that hard work and leave the ones that are ok. It is a VERY puzzling problem.

Same strains on the same trays taken from the same mothers. One will have the problem and the other will not. Seems very random. Can also be from cuttings I got from a club so it rulse out the mothers and or genetics being an issue. I thought maybe it was an issue with one of my vegging trays so I labeled my last round and took plants from all 3 veg trays and put them to bloom. Again some of all 3 trays are stunted.:cuss:.

Where it gets very interesting is I put in 10 plants I bought from a club that were already ready to bloom and swaped them from soil to hydroton and they never saw my vegging trays. They are ALL 100% normal. This tells me it is 100% something to do with the veg peroid an NOT the bloom trays that have the issue , whatever that issue may be. FYI I also tried totally different nutes then I had used the last two years on all three trays and the problem still happens at random. I tried using the best possible combo of nutes and it made ZERO difference. They all have seperate lighting and seperate air sources too.

I seem to have ruled out lighting, air, nutrients, genetics, the bloom trays and about any other thing I can think of. I am so frustrated I am ready to go back to soil honestly but hate the idea of that with SOG :-(. I have LOVED hydro until now.

Setup is SOG 4X4, 3X6 and 4X8 trays for bloom and a seperate 4X4, 3X3 and 2X3 for vegging. 75 and 110 gallon reservoirs. Water is changed out weekly. I use 35% H202 every 2-3 days as I always have. I check and adjust PH with quality PH and PPM meters. I even bought extra meters to make sure one wasnt off and causig a problem.

I am now 100% sure it is all happening in the veg state/trays and has nothing to do with the bloom trays which really helps to narrow this down. Has been a long tough road to figure this issue out and I am at my wits end. Maybe one of you guys can help me figure this out. I will gladly fork over $100 via paypal to anyone who actually helps me get this problem resolved.

One thing I will add that is probably an important part of this puzzle. Few months before this problem came up I took the advice of a friend and started add hydroton to both my bloom beds but also to my vegging trays. I put 4 inch net pots into beds of hydroton to give me more plants and flexiblity. I then toss them into 5 inch pots right as they go to bloom. I didnt used to do this. I am wondering if it is something being passed around to the plants from the build up of dirt etc. I used the same hydroton in the veg trays for probably a good 4-5 months. I see no signs of root rot but perhaps I bred some other nasty in there ? Roots look good but clearly SOMETHING is going on ...... About 3-4 weeks ago I removed all the plants and hydroton. Cleaned ther heck out of the trays and started over BUT I put the same plants back in the trays. so if it going from plant to plant I just put the problem back in the tray I guess. Still having the issue so clearly I didnt get rid of whatever the hell this problem is :wall: Tried doing heavier doses of H202 and even low doses (5 PPM) of chlorine to try and kill nasties. All to no avail.

I am happy that I know the bloom trays are ok and feel I can lick this problem despite wanting to throw in the towel many times. Fresh minds can often times help a lot.

PLEASE HELP !!!

Peace

P.S. I know people likem pics but honestly they wont tell you anything, the stunted plants look 100% happy they just have little to no hairs and the buds are tiny the plants look super happy otherwise.
 
L

lhaluciol

Active Member
Well if you use the same water for all plants and some are OK some are not, it's clearly a "Localized issue" in your media and/or a genetic stress that you cannot really controlled. (see 4)

You have to "kill" one plant for testing and complete checking :

1) Fungus gnats in your deep roots
---> Put some Gnatrol (your need the bacteria Bti) because fungus gnats prefer go sometimes in 1 plant/strain and not the others. Go figure!

2) If no fungus gnat AT ALL, check for Pythium. (I know you said having checked already but check more in your deep roots)
---> Put a big dose (Triple dose) of Trichoderma (Great White Shark is the best I'm sure you know it)

3) If no Pythium or brown/nasty roots: STOP the H2O2 for a while.
---> Too much H2O2 burns all good bacteria/enzymes

4) Sometimes, when we grow only females of the same strains in the same conditions, some plants get transform into males as a "survival mode". This process can give you Herma (You know that) but this process, depending when it starts, can also give you little buds with generally long and thin branches....

Excuse my english level i'm not from an english country :)
good luck man

edit : Put some pictures even if it does't show everything. sometimes a pic speaks more than words
edit 2: I didn't get the whole part "Hydroton switched between the vege trays and the ebb" but it sounds like a problem, Did you make a harvest with hydroton balls and used the same after without cleaning it? If you cleaned it, how did you do?

Because if you use a too high dose of Flush/Bleach/Cleaning product...it could be a PK lack because those products "absorb" the PK flowing on the hydroton.
 
*BUDS

*BUDS

Well-Known Member
dllhg said:
Here is my quick history. Have grown soil/soiless for 5 years. Went to Hydro Ebb and flow in hydroton two years ago with great success and never looked back.
Has ALWAYS gone without a hitch. That is untill the last 3-4 months
Click to expand...
:-(

Plants are put into flower looking just fine. Problems become obvious at the 2 week mark very obvious by 3 weeks. The plants show ZERO defeciency. They remain nice and green, stretch like normal. Leaves look perfect, no curling no discoloring at all. Problem; 30-50% of the plants get stunted budwise. They dont exhibit any hairs and the bud itself is maybe 25% of the other plants that are ok. :wall: Sometimes a few will come out of it enough to grow but will end up with 30-40% of the yield. Generally though I have to just toss out all that hard work and leave the ones that are ok. It is a VERY puzzling problem.

Same strains on the same trays taken from the same mothers. One will have the problem and the other will not. Seems very random. Can also be from cuttings I got from a club so it rulse out the mothers and or genetics being an issue. I thought maybe it was an issue with one of my vegging trays so I labeled my last round and took plants from all 3 veg trays and put them to bloom. Again some of all 3 trays are stunted.:cuss:.

Where it gets very interesting is I put in 10 plants I bought from a club that were already ready to bloom and swaped them from soil to hydroton and they never saw my vegging trays. They are ALL 100% normal. This tells me it is 100% something to do with the veg peroid an NOT the bloom trays that have the issue , whatever that issue may be. FYI I also tried totally different nutes then I had used the last two years on all three trays and the problem still happens at random. I tried using the best possible combo of nutes and it made ZERO difference. They all have seperate lighting and seperate air sources too.

I seem to have ruled out lighting, air, nutrients, genetics, the bloom trays and about any other thing I can think of. I am so frustrated I am ready to go back to soil honestly but hate the idea of that with SOG :-(. I have LOVED hydro until now.

Setup is SOG 4X4, 3X6 and 4X8 trays for bloom and a seperate 4X4, 3X3 and 2X3 for vegging. 75 and 110 gallon reservoirs. Water is changed out weekly. I use 35% H202 every 2-3 days as I always have. I check and adjust PH with quality PH and PPM meters. I even bought extra meters to make sure one wasnt off and causig a problem.

I am now 100% sure it is all happening in the veg state/trays
Click to expand...
and has nothing to do with the bloom trays which really helps to narrow this down. Has been a long tough road to figure this issue out and I am at my wits end. Maybe one of you guys can help me figure this out. I will gladly fork over $100 via paypal to anyone who actually helps me get this problem resolved.

One thing I will add that is probably an important part of this puzzle
Click to expand...
.
Few months before this problem
Click to expand...
came up I took the
advice of a friend and started add hydroton to both my bloom beds but also to my vegging trays
Click to expand...
. I put 4 inch net pots into beds of hydroton to give me more plants and flexiblity. I then toss them into 5 inch pots right as they go to bloom. I didnt used to do this. I am wondering if it is something being passed around to the plants from the build up of dirt etc. I used the same hydroton in the veg trays for probably a good 4-5 months. I see no signs of root rot but perhaps I bred some other nasty in there ? Roots look good but clearly SOMETHING is going on ...... About 3-4 weeks ago I removed all the plants and hydroton. Cleaned ther heck out of the trays and started over BUT I put the same plants back in the trays. so if it going from plant to plant I just put the problem back in the tray I guess. Still having the issue so clearly I didnt get rid of whatever the hell this problem is :wall: Tried doing heavier doses of H202 and even low doses (5 PPM) of chlorine to try and kill nasties. All to no avail.

I am happy that I know the bloom trays are ok and feel I can lick this problem despite wanting to throw in the towel many times. Fresh minds can often times help a lot.

PLEASE HELP !!!

Peace

P.S. I know people likem pics but honestly they wont tell you anything, the stunted plants look 100% happy they just have little to no hairs and the buds are tiny the plants look super happy otherwise.
Click to expand...
Something is clearly happening in the veg tray and the bloom tray from that advice you took. Fuck bro go back to basics ,what you were doing 6 months ago when all was well.
 
stoneruk

stoneruk

Well-Known Member
Clean everything out with bleach, rinse very well, start growing again. That'll be $100, want me to pm you my paypal address? :D
 
jdmcwestevo

jdmcwestevo

Well-Known Member
dump everything clean everything with water and bleach. get all new hydroton everything go back to the way you are most comfortable growing and see what happens
 
D

dllhg

Member
:sad:Yeah I dumped all the hydroton in the bloom beds first and it didnt help at all. After seeing the problem rear its ugly head from all 3 veg trays with different nutes,air and lighting I know it is all in the veg trays at this point.
10 of 10 plants that never saw my veg trays (got from someone else) I put in bloom room all are blooming 100%. I assumed it was the bloom trays since everything looked good in veg. Same exact problem happens with clones
I buy if they hit the veg trays , if they dont they are 100% fine in bloom trays.

I did replace all the hydroton in the veg trays too a few weeks ago and I still got the same random plants failing to bloom. :wall: I did however put the old plants in the 3.75 inch net pots back into those fresh beds of hydroton. I was initially thinking lockout and not that I might have some wierd nasty growing in there so I didnt seperate the plants.

My game plan right now is I am going to empty my main veg tray and put those plants in the other remaining trays. Clean the hell out of it. Put fresh hydroton in it again and only put fresh plants in there that have never been vegged in there before. So it should essentially be a new grow from scratch in the veg tray. Later I will do the same with the other two trays. This should cover pythium and any possible bug infestation.

I have looked in the roots from plants I pulled and couldnt see any bugs. Are they pretty easy to see ? If pythium would the plants still look green and lush the entire veg and bloom?

Very frustating and expensive process :sad:
 
DrFever

DrFever

New Member
ok send me the 100 bucks
and to fix your issue stop useing H202 for a trail run also drop your ph for 5.6 as well :mrgreen: and you be rolling rolling rolling
 
U

unity

Well-Known Member
Stop the h202 for a trial run, I'll split the money with DrFever ;)
Me thinkest that by the time they go into flower the h202 has burned out a lot of the roots.
the ones you added directly into flower still get hit with the overdose of h202, but the roots were more established and can handle it better. Nevertheless, I think that even on the successful ones you are destroying the root zone with the h202 and they are not reaching their true potential.
 
DrFever

DrFever

New Member
unity said:
Stop the h202 for a trial run, I'll split the money with DrFever ;)
Me thinkest that by the time they go into flower the h202 has burned out a lot of the roots.
the ones you added directly into flower still get hit with the overdose of h202, but the roots were more established and can handle it better. Nevertheless, I think that even on the successful ones you are destroying the root zone with the h202 and they are not reaching their true potential.
Click to expand...
i go 70 / 30 thats it :)
 
D

Dutch Crunch

Member
You might also want to check for any scaring or corrosion on any trays, buckets, or reservoir tanks. Certain compounds in plastics can be toxic to plants. Some even mimic plant hormones causing weird things to happen, such as stunted growth or premature ripening. Over time, through damage, or through exposure with the wrong wavelengths of light can trigger problems, especially In laminated plastics, and lower quality plastics. It's a long shot, but it's worth checking out. Your metal halide lamps might be putting out enough UV light to have broken down some of the compound... Again a long shot but free to check.
 
phishphan1995

phishphan1995

Well-Known Member
"Where it gets very interesting is I put in 10 plants I bought from a club that were already ready to bloom and swaped them from soil to hydroton"

Cant say this is your problem. But this is a big NO NO. You never take plants from soil to Hydro. There is shit in the soil that will thrive inside a hydro tank. Bad shit
 
D

dllhg

Member
Dutch Crunch said:
You might also want to check for any scaring or corrosion on any trays, buckets, or reservoir tanks. Certain compounds in plastics can be toxic to plants. Some even mimic plant hormones causing weird things to happen, such as stunted growth or premature ripening. Over time, through damage, or through exposure with the wrong wavelengths of light can trigger problems, especially In laminated plastics, and lower quality plastics. It's a long shot, but it's worth checking out. Your metal halide lamps might be putting out enough UV light to have broken down some of the compound... Again a long shot but free to check.
Click to expand...
Intersting but I wouldnt think it would happen to 3 seperate trays at the same time and why would it be so random on the plants having the issue ? Trays are white botanicare and look pretty good anyway.
 
D

dllhg

Member
phishphan1995 said:
"Where it gets very interesting is I put in 10 plants I bought from a club that were already ready to bloom and swaped them from soil to hydroton"

Cant say this is your problem. But this is a big NO NO. You never take plants from soil to Hydro. There is shit in the soil that will thrive inside a hydro tank. Bad shit
Click to expand...
Yeah but those are the healthiest plants on the tray. Havent been doing that on the other trays that got all messed up. Was just doing it as a experiment to see if it was the veg trays causing the problem. I shake the root balls to bare roots then swirl in a 5 gallon bucket of water with H202 and Superthrive. Put into new hydroton. I have heard the same thing though and dont plan to make a habit of it.
 
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